The Weakest Link?

[protectthehornet]

jump is correct...the DAVIES book is the one that I reference. I had the great pleasure of corresponding with the author about 20 years ago

also spoke with the author of "fly the wing" for about an hour on the phone...another fine book with many great flying concepts.

[p51guy]

You ae right. Handling the big jets was the book. 30 years is a long time ago but it did a great job of explaining aerodynamics in a way I hadn't seen before.

[Pugilistic Animus]

You ae right. Handling the big jets was the book. 30 years is a long time ago but it did a great job of explaining aerodynamics in a way I hadn't seen before.

all of the aerodynamics you'll ever need...


btw: I looked the word used by Wolfie was 'zoom reserve'

PA

[protectthehornet]

pugilista

ok...zoom reserve is also a very nice concept. I still think that flare reserve is somewhere in one of the three books I mentioned...but if not...

I claim flare reserve as my own

and also copyright:

glide reserve

Hop (over the airplane on the runway) reserve

and rudder reserve

and for Santa...Reindeer reserve

[Pugilistic Animus]

Well PTH you do read all of the right books

I get you I'm fully fluent in both Horse Hooey and Horse Puckey ,...with a conversational level of Bull Dinky

PA

[Pugilistic Animus]

Oh just to add I'm not being sarcastic,...the reason I love those books so much S@R, and htbj,..is because they are written in pilot language,...i.e horse hooey;....ex

zoom reserve =kinetic energy

so,...I was paying a compliment,...don't take it the wrong way...I don't even take myself seriously

PA

[protectthehornet]

pugilista

if you look closely in 'stick and rudder' you can even read a good argument for renaming the elevator to "flipper''.

I took a bit of flak (nothing I couldn't handle) from a bunch of newbees who haven't bothered to learn the past. This would be like building a house today without first making a foundation.


I'm 53 years old...learned to fly 35 years ago. I went out of my way to fly on the last 4 course radio range in the lower north american continent. Just so I would have the experience.

I listen to my VOR ID before navigating on it. I listen to the NDB identifier during an NDB approach.

I am old school.

But I also flew some of the first RNAV approaches in California...to really tough airports like Truckee and HalfMoonBay in REAL wx.

So...learn. I had flown some 20 years before I had heard the expression: We're Popeye.

and I wasn't afraid to ask what it meant.

So, if you don't know something...or haven't heard something...or can't imagine something...try to learn.

And I think Sully would have done better without Fly By Wire than with it.

[Pugilistic Animus]

yeah if he had a DC-8 it would have still been flying today

I had flown some 20 years before I had heard the expression: We're Popeye.

that must be advanced Bull Dinky, cause I've never heard that one,...so I'll ask

[protectthehornet]

Popeye

Popeye is a term the United States Navy (and by virtue of that, the USMC) uses. A radio call...for example:

Flight 123, traffic 12 o'clock high 3 miles

flight 123 says: We're Popeye

That means...we are in IMC and cannot see.

Popeye is Navy for ''on instruments"

I was flying with an ex navy guy and we got that call...he said: tell em we are POPEYE

so I did and then I asked.

now, I've taught you something...and almost everyone on this thread...so I hope you guys will teach someone else and me too

[p51guy]

In 23,000 hrs I have never heard popeye on the radio. Do the controllers know what it means?

[protectthehornet]

some controllers do some don't.

like I said...I didn't know what it meant then, but I do now...you probably know at least one navy pilot/aviator...ask them

anyhoo...a forum is a place to learn.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Same here in 56 years of driving flying devices of all types I never heard of Popeye either.

But I have heard the cone of silence many times flying the radio range.

We learn something new every day.

[misd-agin]

Why introduce Navy slang into civilian aviation?

[beardy]

More importantly why use slang that is also something that only a few people 'in the club' understand, on the RT. It's not big, it's not clever and it is very confusing, so it has no place in grown up flying.

[protectthehornet]

by the way...speaking of slang...we don't call it "RT"...we just say radio.

[beardy]

CAA Safety Regulation Group publication:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG-NATS_RTDISCIP.PDF

refers quite specifically to RT (I always understood it to mean Radio Telephony) procedures,

The importance of using
correct and precise standard RT
phraseology and techniques cannot
be over-emphasised.

Mind you,
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF
refers to RTF

'Popeye' is in neither.

[Pugilistic Animus]

Why introduce Navy slang into civilian aviation?

More importantly why use slang that is also something that only a few people 'in the club' understand?

It's fun and life is generally boring

[26er]

"Popeye" was in use before IMC was invented. Also "mattress" and "quilt" meaning below and above cloud. They were fighter control expressions used in the forties and fifties.

[beardy]

26er,
Thanks for that I will add it to my lexicon of historical phrases.

However,

It's fun and life is generally boring

Whilst true detracts from safety. It's one of those odd things that the civil flying world, in general, it attracts folk who think it's fun and are looking for adventure whilst our paymasters (the flying public) want it to be uneventful and boring. One way to 'make it so' is to make it safe. Non standard phrases can easily lead to misinterpretations and are hence inherently unsafe. 'Cheer up' was once misheard as 'Gear up' leading to one heavily damaged F4 during the take off roll. Sterile cockpits at lower levels may not be necessary, but they do enhance safety.

[iceman50]

protectthehornet

Think you have given yourself away "JONDC9" with all your flying terms. You just had to mention "flippers" again.

if you look closely in 'stick and rudder' you can even read a good argument for renaming the elevator to "flipper''.

I took a bit of flak (nothing I couldn't handle) from a bunch of newbees who haven't bothered to learn the past. This would be like building a house today without first making a foundation.

Stop living in the past and your back yard, the world now flies and with your parochial outlook you do aviation a disservice.

Some of us have been flying longer than you, the RN as well, and have never heard the "old" terms you are now trying to push with the disingenuous attitude that you have of assuming anyone who has never heard the terms as "newbies".

We have or are at least trying to have a WORLDWIDE "standardisation" now.