Are we facing a safety issue?

[AirRabbit]

Originally Posted by cessnapuppy

Often in debate, we present exaggeratedly opposite responses to the other's increasingly belligerent position, until we are both shouting red faced across an increasingly widening divide. Similarly, perhaps in an effort to avoid the aforementioned, and achieve the common ground identification essential not only for continued debate, but for also working toward a solution of some kind, we give up some ground (perhaps ground not worth fighting over)
However.
In this case, I feel the salary issue is waived too easily and too soon.
We have duty hours limitations: why??
Because we dont think it is safe for a pilot (or a truck driver) to be running 12 hours out of a day, or 60 hours out of a week or some such.
Are we naive enough to think that by keeping them out of the LEFT HAND SEAT (either truck cab or cockpit) but not out of the greeter's Aisle at WALMART where he she is forced to augment their income satisfies our commitments to safety?

Please understand, I’m not saying that government has no responsibility in this area. They do – and for a good long time, in my opinion, they’ve bungled that responsibility, rather handsomely, in fact. For what it may be worth, I would imagine they would offer that they were trying (perhaps too vehemently) to stay out of the business of the individual airline. However, while I do believe there is going to be some additional thoughts expressed on this specific subject by the US FAA and/or the US Congress in the not-too-distant future … that is not the sum and substance of this particular argument – to whit …

Doesn’t the individual pilot have a “lion’s share” of the responsibility here? At what point would a pilot be expected to recognize his/her own failure to meet his/her own individual standards of competency, alertness, and general health to go fly that day? Could it be that pilots have not determined what their own limitations are? Could it be that they can recognize such limitations in others, but are blinded by the “mirror” of self-recognition? If a pilot has a report time of 0600 at JFK for a flight to MIA, and the crewmember lives in SFO, what are the obligations of that pilot to be available, fit, and ready for his/her flight? Should living this far away from the duty station be allowed? Should the airline pose a restriction on how far from the duty location a pilot may reside? Should a restriction be couched only in terms of proximity to duty location within a standard time frame of the start of the duty day (e.g., the pilot should be within a 1 hour commute of the duty station for at least 12 hours prior to the start of the duty day)? Should the government pose such a restriction if the airline does not? Will that ensure the pilot arriving fit and ready for his/her flight? There are drinking regulations in place already. Are they stringent enough? Is 12 hours between bottle and throttle sufficient time for the body to assimilate ingested alcohol? What about television watching? No TV within 9 hours of the start of the duty day – except for the World Series or Superbowl? How about, no Wallmart Greetings within 12 hours of start of duty day? What is reasonable? And, by the way, the military doesn’t seem to have any better handle on this issue. I witnessed a squadron colleague of mine being dressed down rather handsomely by the squadron Deputy Cmdr. Ops. after falling while waterskiing and dislocating his shoulder. It was the Squadron Cmdr at the controls of the boat behind which my squadron colleague was skiing!

Originally Posted by cessnapuppy

And it's not so much pilots, but the incremental "swiss cheese" mechanics and ground crew down the line, ( swiss cheese because they are all handlers of the lattice work 'swiss cheese' of failure /success that when properly holes aligned, the 'mouse of disaster'* slips through)

It’s my belief that exactly the same personal responsibility issues apply throughout the business world … including mechanics, ground crew, dispatchers, police officers, nurses, doctors, teachers … you name it. When it comes right down to it, the only thing over which you have definitive control is YOU – and the airplane, when you’re flying. You had better know your own limitations and those of the airplane and never – but NEVER, exceed either one. The price is just too much – and habits (both good and bad) are very hard to ignore – they just, well … habitually … crop up … and when they’re of the bad kind, it’s almost always in the wrong places. Know what you’re doing and do it. Do it right. Do it right all the time; and particularly, when no one is looking! And then, when it’s necessary … walk off the flight. When it’s necessary (notice, I said necessary)… grab the controls and tell the guy/gal in the other seat “I have the airplane.” Deal with the ramifications later – don’t let your next of kin deal with what you’ve left them.

[postman23]

compensation

A few lines to the money factor.

Years ago, working for a crappy outfit with an even crappier chief pilot our crew meals (average at best) were being scrapped under alleged budget reason's following 911. Never saw more pax post 911 and did not see the logic but then again, I am a pilot and not an airline manager.

The process had already been initiated in reducing the amount of food making up the meal and a steady deterioration in the quality in general. During one of the pilot meetings, a fellow colleague asked if it was possible to give the crew member a small amount of money so that he/she could purchase a decent sandwich at the airport, while saving the company money. After all, the delivery charges for the crew meals are usually not in relation to the quality or quantity of the food.

The beloved individual at the front of the foodchain replied: money is no substitute for food.

Although technically correct, the answer bears no relevance to the fact that 'his' boys were steering 'his' aircraft on an empty stomach.

From a safety point of view the financial compensation for scrapping the meals while saving the company money could be a big win. Needless to say that the proposed suggestion was dismissed. As was the airline some years later.