Lufthansa MD-11 Mexico City
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Well, I expect when the steps were brought up, they walked off, and spent a couple of nights there in a hotel, then were flown back to Germany! Do you imagine it is all completed and book closed already? There's barely been time to start analysing flight recorder and get statements. Do you really believe it is all over already? What are you expecting? Crucifiction?
Trash du Blanc
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I've been on it 9 years and am currently a mx test pilot on the MD11.
It is a wonderful aircraft, but it must be flown. If all you do is punch the a/p on at 500' on takeoff, and click it off at 200' on final, you are cruising for a bruising.
If you, however, revert back to the reptilian core of your brain where you stored things like pitch / power relationships and the concept of vertical inertia, you will do fine. And it is a blast to fly.
Oh and if you can't click off the autothrottles and shoot a visual you may be in over your head......
It is a wonderful aircraft, but it must be flown. If all you do is punch the a/p on at 500' on takeoff, and click it off at 200' on final, you are cruising for a bruising.
If you, however, revert back to the reptilian core of your brain where you stored things like pitch / power relationships and the concept of vertical inertia, you will do fine. And it is a blast to fly.
Oh and if you can't click off the autothrottles and shoot a visual you may be in over your head......
Yes, this wonderful MD11 has a fine record doesn't it. How many hull losses now ?
Four I can think of, Fdx in Newark, Mandarin In Hong Kong, Fdx again in Subic Bay, and Nrt recently, I'm probably missing some.
Numerous other incidents, some fatal over the years. An uncommanded slat extension in the cruise due to the Fo knocking the handle with his knee (poor design blamed again) scads of heavy landings and tail strikes.
Pilots that currently fly it will naturally defend it as most Pilots do, completely understandable.
An unbiased view and a little research uncovers the truth.
It's miserable record speaks for itself.
When Fdx crashed in Nrt I said it won't be long before another incident or accident fortunately this one in MEX seems fairly minor.
It's just a matter of time before another one.
Four I can think of, Fdx in Newark, Mandarin In Hong Kong, Fdx again in Subic Bay, and Nrt recently, I'm probably missing some.
Numerous other incidents, some fatal over the years. An uncommanded slat extension in the cruise due to the Fo knocking the handle with his knee (poor design blamed again) scads of heavy landings and tail strikes.
Pilots that currently fly it will naturally defend it as most Pilots do, completely understandable.
An unbiased view and a little research uncovers the truth.
It's miserable record speaks for itself.
When Fdx crashed in Nrt I said it won't be long before another incident or accident fortunately this one in MEX seems fairly minor.
It's just a matter of time before another one.
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Stilton
"When Fdx crashed in Nrt I said it won't be long before another incident or accident fortunately this one in MEX seems fairly minor"
Your previous post called it a prang. A hard landing into a challenging airport, nothing else. I wonder how many hard landings have occurred on other types since the FDX crash? Probably several you've not bothered to mention. Luckily for you this one was an MD-11 so you could continue your rant
What experience do you actually have of the MD-11? None i expect.
"When Fdx crashed in Nrt I said it won't be long before another incident or accident fortunately this one in MEX seems fairly minor"
Your previous post called it a prang. A hard landing into a challenging airport, nothing else. I wonder how many hard landings have occurred on other types since the FDX crash? Probably several you've not bothered to mention. Luckily for you this one was an MD-11 so you could continue your rant
What experience do you actually have of the MD-11? None i expect.
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It's six hull losses for the MD-11. 1 China Airlines, 3 FedEx, 1 Korean Air and 1 Swissair,
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety Database > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety Database > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
Last edited by Super VC-10; 13th Oct 2009 at 13:52. Reason: typo
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Out of 200 built.
Seems to me...either fly the MD11 properly, or face the consequences.
L1011/747/A300-600/etc....same.
In the case of the L1011 multiple redundant aircraft systems and a superb design from the get-go, kept you out of trouble.
747, about the same.
A300-600, rehashed A300B4, and with AA, very poor pilot technique re/rudder ops.
DC-10, poor engine changing technique with one operator and a suspect slat design....not to mention cargo door problems, early on.
In short, gotta know your airplane, folks, and fly/maintain it by the numbers...do this, and you are likely to survive just fine.
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@411A
Basicly I agree with you. Anyhow, there seems to be an accumulation of aircraft specific incidents/accidents.
- A300, GoAround related
- MD11, overruns/hard landings
- A320 (and similar), crews screwed up by complex automatics
In my company we use(d) them all. The only solution is time(money) consuming training!
Basicly I agree with you. Anyhow, there seems to be an accumulation of aircraft specific incidents/accidents.
- A300, GoAround related
- MD11, overruns/hard landings
- A320 (and similar), crews screwed up by complex automatics
In my company we use(d) them all. The only solution is time(money) consuming training!
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You can add Korean Air april 1999 in Shanghai
Somebody once said they should let Lockheed design all the airplanes, Boeing build them...and McDonnell-Douglas market them! And let the French guys stick to making Citroens and Peugeots.....
Not my take but, that ´somebody´ did make a rather controversial statement!!
Somebody once said they should let Lockheed design all the airplanes, Boeing build them...and McDonnell-Douglas market them! And let the French guys stick to making Citroens and Peugeots.....
Not my take but, that ´somebody´ did make a rather controversial statement!!
Please don't attempt to confuse 411a with facts.
The MD11, by any measure has had more than it's fair share of accidents and incidents.
Stability, or the lack of it seems to be the main issue, with a horizontal stabilizer sized 30-40% smaller than the DC10. This proved to be inadequate for the control authority desired so a 'solution' was installed using an artificial augmentation system.
This has obviously not been effective either. This unforgiving machine will remain so. Unfortunately another incident / accident will happen before long.
The MD11, by any measure has had more than it's fair share of accidents and incidents.
Stability, or the lack of it seems to be the main issue, with a horizontal stabilizer sized 30-40% smaller than the DC10. This proved to be inadequate for the control authority desired so a 'solution' was installed using an artificial augmentation system.
This has obviously not been effective either. This unforgiving machine will remain so. Unfortunately another incident / accident will happen before long.
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FlyingtheLine
Why do y'all think AA turned back their entire fleet of MD-11s BACK BEFORE the accidents and incidents. Unprecedented.
It was a good time financially to get rid of them because the MD-11 quickly became more expensive as a freighter over a pax bird to buy or lease.
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James bro,
AAAAgggghhhh!
Airbus aircraft are NOT French!!!
Three assembly lines in three different countries and so far, Great Britain has designed & supplied nearly 6000 sets of wings and we've sold nearly 9500 aircraft - with Brit wings, German interiors and so on.
We are International with a strong European flavour - and the UK is part of Europe.
Now, as a place to live, Toulouse is not too bad...
I presume you bought the Peugeot as a discretionary purchase - I prefer German cars!!!
Saman
AAAAgggghhhh!
Airbus aircraft are NOT French!!!
Three assembly lines in three different countries and so far, Great Britain has designed & supplied nearly 6000 sets of wings and we've sold nearly 9500 aircraft - with Brit wings, German interiors and so on.
We are International with a strong European flavour - and the UK is part of Europe.
Now, as a place to live, Toulouse is not too bad...
I presume you bought the Peugeot as a discretionary purchase - I prefer German cars!!!
Saman
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I've been on it 9 years and am currently a mx test pilot on the MD11.
It is a wonderful aircraft, but it must be flown. If all you do is punch the a/p on at 500' on takeoff, and click it off at 200' on final, you are cruising for a bruising.
If you, however, revert back to the reptilian core of your brain where you stored things like pitch / power relationships and the concept of vertical inertia, you will do fine. And it is a blast to fly.
Oh and if you can't click off the autothrottles and shoot a visual you may be in over your head......
YES YES YES FLYING (sadly becoming a lost art methinks) a bit like what you had to do with the L1011 a much nicer looking plane if a bit underpowered compared to the The Mad Dog/ Death Cruiser. They always looked like they were a spare parts bin cobbled together job - oops we need another engine mmm where can we put that - there you go in the middle of the tail -ooops damn blast curses its a bit too heavy for the undercarriage now - easily fixed just add another wheel - thats it great job - we can go home now..
Sorry folks i dont know how to get another post in here like most people can BUT i can/could fly a plane
It is a wonderful aircraft, but it must be flown. If all you do is punch the a/p on at 500' on takeoff, and click it off at 200' on final, you are cruising for a bruising.
If you, however, revert back to the reptilian core of your brain where you stored things like pitch / power relationships and the concept of vertical inertia, you will do fine. And it is a blast to fly.
Oh and if you can't click off the autothrottles and shoot a visual you may be in over your head......
YES YES YES FLYING (sadly becoming a lost art methinks) a bit like what you had to do with the L1011 a much nicer looking plane if a bit underpowered compared to the The Mad Dog/ Death Cruiser. They always looked like they were a spare parts bin cobbled together job - oops we need another engine mmm where can we put that - there you go in the middle of the tail -ooops damn blast curses its a bit too heavy for the undercarriage now - easily fixed just add another wheel - thats it great job - we can go home now..
Sorry folks i dont know how to get another post in here like most people can BUT i can/could fly a plane
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c'mon people. in today's world A's -AND- B's are made from part from lots a different countries. check this:
MHI to Ship First Aft Fuselage Panel for Boeing 777 Freighter. - JCN Newswires | Encyclopedia.com
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to Ship First Aft Fuselage Panel for Boeing 777 Freighter.
JCN Newswires | January 23, 2008 | COPYRIGHT 2008 Japan Corporate News Network K.K.
Tokyo, Japan, Jan 23, 2008 - (JCN Newswire) - Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. (MHI) will ship the first aft fuselage panel for the Boeing 777 Freighter on January 30 from the company's Hiroshima Machinery Works in Hiroshima Prefecture. The high-capacity, twin-engine 777 Freighter is based on the technologically advanced 777-200LR (Longer Range) Worldliner passenger airplane. A ceremony was held at the Hiroshima Machinery Works on January 23 to commemorate the completion and initial shipment of the panel.
do i hear anyone say the glorious B777 is a japanese aircraft????
MHI to Ship First Aft Fuselage Panel for Boeing 777 Freighter. - JCN Newswires | Encyclopedia.com
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to Ship First Aft Fuselage Panel for Boeing 777 Freighter.
JCN Newswires | January 23, 2008 | COPYRIGHT 2008 Japan Corporate News Network K.K.
Tokyo, Japan, Jan 23, 2008 - (JCN Newswire) - Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. (MHI) will ship the first aft fuselage panel for the Boeing 777 Freighter on January 30 from the company's Hiroshima Machinery Works in Hiroshima Prefecture. The high-capacity, twin-engine 777 Freighter is based on the technologically advanced 777-200LR (Longer Range) Worldliner passenger airplane. A ceremony was held at the Hiroshima Machinery Works on January 23 to commemorate the completion and initial shipment of the panel.
do i hear anyone say the glorious B777 is a japanese aircraft????
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Logically most of the operators had ex DC10 and MD80 pilots commencing operations of the MD11, that was what ran around at that time. But how many of the ACTUAL pilots still came from those mentioned, and how many from the newer generation like A320?
It sure is refreashing to hear from folks that know what they are talking about, instead of the button-pushing side-stick crowd whom haven't a clue.
We have no information about the of crews previous flight experience and this thread has already degraded into "young generations can't fly" and "A vs B".
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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Plane is getting a minor fix in MEX and the off to VCV to be repaired.
It is a wonderful aircraft, but it must be flown. If all you do is punch the a/p on at 500' on takeoff, and click it off at 200' on final, you are cruising for a bruising.
If you, however, revert back to the reptilian core of your brain where you stored things like pitch / power relationships and the concept of vertical inertia, you will do fine. And it is a blast to fly.
Oh and if you can't click off the autothrottles and shoot a visual you may be in over your head......
If you, however, revert back to the reptilian core of your brain where you stored things like pitch / power relationships and the concept of vertical inertia, you will do fine. And it is a blast to fly.
Oh and if you can't click off the autothrottles and shoot a visual you may be in over your head......
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Rest assured, for most A320 pilots getting a MD11 rating would be a silly choice career-wise
Furthermore, it's you reducing the issue to A vs. B or young vs. old and by doing that you simply brush aside the problem. I say again and again, those who evade this discussion are the most in need of some basic training. It IS an issue and the MD11 is the one revealing it first, due to its handling peculiarities. And if you read correctly, many contributors like me have stated that it is not an A issue alone, but that this company was the first to go down that road.
By the way, in a very, very old thread I have described my plane I would design, and guess what? It would be equipped with a sidestick, one however featuring feedback from AP and collegue. Small but decisive difference trainingwise.
So work on the issue and not on your hurt A-feelings.
GF