Will 9/11 Security rules kill pilots in an accident?
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Yes, but the reason it's there on light aircraft is because of structural damage preventing the door being opened in a crash, thus blocking your ONLY exit. Unlocking the flight deck door prior to a crash landing wouldn't ensure access, as it would unlock with a loss off AC power. If it doesn't open, it's most probably obstructed or damaged.
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BOAC, I read the final report and concure that the code alarm was steady when he opened the door. It said continuous chime but I assume they meant alarm. It was translated into english. The last time I read the preliminary I don't recall that part. It would have been helpful to have a longer CVR to understand why it took so long to enter the right code.
Not all terrorists are bright fully briefed individuals.
e.g.: Glasgow airport attacker 'Doctor' Abdullah or Mr Reid, the 'shoe bomber'.
Why assist our enemies by discussing security on a public forum?
e.g.: Glasgow airport attacker 'Doctor' Abdullah or Mr Reid, the 'shoe bomber'.
Why assist our enemies by discussing security on a public forum?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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It would have been helpful to have a longer CVR
Originally Posted by Basil
Why assist our enemies by discussing security on a public forum?
Seems to me that cockpit doors aren't there to protect aircraft, but to prevent them from being turned into weapons. Increased or decreased risk to pilots or passengers isn't irrelevant, but it's only part of the equation. The real issue is whether the doors are designed so that they reduce the risk of attack to all possible targets at an acceptable cost to convenience and flight safety. Not an easy question, but I think it's the right one.
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Yes, I said in my last post after reading the final report that the code was used so that is what released the door. I agree, them knowing the code won't help them, may prevent an incident in the back some day. No one said anything on this thread that can be used by anybody. The longer CVR may have helped explain what the FA was doing prior to the 30 minute tape. Chimes, knocking on door, etc. I'm done.
The more 'they' realise we have our security 'tight' the better.
I think we will just have to agree to differ.
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How secure are our flight decks now really ?
As a CC I rarely read the F/D forums. This one caught my eye as 9/11 affected me personally at the time. The procedures and more importantly the rationale's behind them affect my role as a CC now.
I have flown for quite a long time babies permitting. I knew the days when there were no barriers. A welfare check of the pilots consisted of putting your head round the open door and checking they were engaged in operating duties or reading the paper
. Likewise if you guys wanted tea you asked through same open door and if the CC were on the service you made it yourself stopping in the galley to talk to a few pax.....those were the days!!
Since then we have had Kegworth, 9/11 and Helios to name but a few. SOP's and aircraft modifications have been put in place and rightly so to try and prevent these from ever happening again. What we have not done is address the human element and the bad guys will exploit this.
As CC my very limited hijack traing tells me I must not allow access to the flight deck. It then goes on to tell me I must not actively resist the hijackers/co operate where possible etc??
As a human being with a gun to my head/knife to my throat would I enter the access code? Highly likely I'm afraid. Then it's over to you guys who have the option to deny entry.
What would you do really and what training/psycological preparation do you get for this eventuality?
Then we have the differences in approach to this problem. All airlines now have a secured flight deck door monitored by video, spyholes and SOP's. Why are the SOP's so different airline to airline for the same problem?
I have flown for quite a long time babies permitting. I knew the days when there were no barriers. A welfare check of the pilots consisted of putting your head round the open door and checking they were engaged in operating duties or reading the paper
. Likewise if you guys wanted tea you asked through same open door and if the CC were on the service you made it yourself stopping in the galley to talk to a few pax.....those were the days!!Since then we have had Kegworth, 9/11 and Helios to name but a few. SOP's and aircraft modifications have been put in place and rightly so to try and prevent these from ever happening again. What we have not done is address the human element and the bad guys will exploit this.
As CC my very limited hijack traing tells me I must not allow access to the flight deck. It then goes on to tell me I must not actively resist the hijackers/co operate where possible etc??
As a human being with a gun to my head/knife to my throat would I enter the access code? Highly likely I'm afraid. Then it's over to you guys who have the option to deny entry.
What would you do really and what training/psycological preparation do you get for this eventuality?
Then we have the differences in approach to this problem. All airlines now have a secured flight deck door monitored by video, spyholes and SOP's. Why are the SOP's so different airline to airline for the same problem?
