Air France Safety report

[Locked door]

Yes BA had modded the fuel tanks many many years before when their own safety audits identified the risk of a tyre disintegrating. Further mods were made post the A/F crash which were probably unnecessary but couldn't do any harm.

[Algy]

Fuel tank mods???

Not the most important thing in the world now, but did BA really mod the fuel-tanks earlier? There were BA/AF differences but I don't recall fuel-tanks being one of them, and in fact the fuel tanks were incredibly difficult to access when the Kevlar liners were eventually installed post-crash. (I may well be failing to remember another twist to that complex story though.)

Excerpt from an Air Transport Intelligence story on 16 August 2000:

"Discussing the history of previous Concorde tyre incidents, CAA head of aircraft certification Derek Blackall, says there have been around 70 incidents since 1976, the most significant being to an Air France aircraft at Washington Dulles Airport in 1979 after which a series of actions were taken.

Those were: the introduction of a flat-tyre detection system; the strengthening of the wheels themselves to let them take an overload factor of two instead of the original 1.5; and the movement of some systems around the landing gear bay to reduce their vulnerability.

Blackall notes that Air France uses Goodyear tyres and British Airways has Dunlop, although no significance has so far been attached to that.

Another difference is that British Airways has incorporated an Aerospatiale-designed modification to the water deflector which was intended to "reduce the energy of fragments that come off in the event of a tyre burst" whereas Air France did not take up the revised system.

Blackall says it is not yet possible to tell "if that made a difference" in the case of the Paris crash."

[Me Myself]

I do not want to bring Asseline out of the closet again but It is amazing to think that for a few meters more, the crowd would have cheered and, as training Capt on the first A320s in AF then, he would most probably be chief OPS at AF today.

ATC
I ve had to leave the thread for a while as I also have heaps of other interests.
Having said that, you are right on the money, the crowd of streeet pundits would have cheered and Asseline would have been the next chief of Op s. and the french as a people would nver had had a doubt as to their God given right to rule the aviation planet, if not the whole planet, but again, another story.
Your remark sums up the french psychie and the fly by example is a good one.


However, that was then ( 20 years ago ) and now is well.............now !

All this doesn t explain 447 and no, F/O s even if tempted, do not shut the old man s mouth. If they do...............they re toast. Of course some try but then, jerks old or young are a self breeding specie...............regardless of nationality: Some spiffing examples on this site.
447 captain had very little experience on type..............and on long haul, exactly 2 years since he was an ex Air Inter pilot. I would not call that a lot of experience.
I was lucky to spend 10 years of my life as a long haul F/O and I can humbly say this is where I became a LH skipper in the making.
Most probably the 2 F/O s were sitting up front and I would agree with what has been said above regarding the interpretation of the radar image. What will need to be adressed too, is the chain of command when the captain is taking his break. It s not enough to say " Boyo, you re in charge !!! " when you ve never been trained to decide.............and this takes training, this from personal experience.
Once again, what we need is real management, by that I mean someone who has the power to say " You don t like that rule ?? Here are your marching papers " Simple as that. We also need an upper management who does not go cherry picking on a report taking what he knows will not anger some of multiple unions AF has. This Colin report was to be taken as a whole, not as " A la carte " menu like it was.
Everybody knows how not to crash an airplane, just follow some very simple............maybe boring ( but who CARES ?? ) rules and plough the field until retirement. I know, not really glamourous but if that s what you re after, you should have joined the Air Force.
I for one, take tremendous pride and satisfaction when checking out immigration at seeing families and friends happily waiting their loved one s I have delivered in one piece. I have seen too many times on TV what the worse case scenario can be. Nothing boring about that I can tell you and I get a high coke wouldn t give me.
Call me corny and sentimental:..................who CARES

In France no matter how good you are at work only important is your education background and diploma...and on top of all: your relationships!
This leads to a very bad SMS in management.
Say people they are what the Earth has the best made and you have a good chance to improve your accident record list.
That doesn't mean this can explain all the AF accidents.

Australiancalou

I find your naivity very touching. Is there a country on this planet where anyone is chosen solely for his abilities ??? Not even in the Land of Opportunities. Try to join the UK senior Civil Service and you ll find out you d better be a friend of Sir Humphrey. Look, he even hired Bernard as a secretary. How scary is that ?
The Old boy s club has been around since the cave man.

The name of the imminent replacement of Gourgeon is already known apparently but will he read and learn from the Colin report and start changing the culture ?

Yeah, a name is sort of flying around but I personally think this is just a lot of bollocks. Some unions are applying a tremendous pressure to get rid of the ruling team and what better way to mine the field than throwing a name and see if it flies. The name that is being flight tested is of a presently locked in a dark closet guy who had his days in glory and got ditched for an unbeknown reason to me. The air is too thin for me up there and the pole much too greasy.
One thing I didn't mention in my previous posts are the different groups shredding each others in order to get the top jobs. We're talking Free Masons, political parties and depending where you stand, you get the bunny; but you sure have to fight for it.
I would be very surprised if there was any change at the very top, at least something significant, for we have far too much on our plate to be able to afford the commotion of a change.