Flybe Dash emergency at LGW?
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“Air seal”? I presume that means oil seal, in which case I would imagine all the passengers have been contacted and informed that they’ve been exposed to engine oil fumes, what chemicals are involved, what the possible consequences may be and told to go to a hospital for a check-up and blood test. 
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Wbble, If this is indeed the case then I would not expect any "Duty of Care" wrt the pax or crews any time soon. The Flybe track record on this is Woeful to say the least.
BR.
BR.
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US Medical help
Crew and passengers can at last consult the following helpful US Government document for assistance with serious ill health following a smoke event in a confined space.
http://www.ohrca.org/pdf/quickreference.pdf
DB
http://www.ohrca.org/pdf/quickreference.pdf
DB
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In the light of Blinks statement I'd totally agree with Bad Robot.
Flybe, like many others, are not good at accepting responsibility for this sort of thing.
If pax and crew haven't been for a blood test - then go now. And get it documented so when you are overcome in x weeks/months time you have some evidence of the cause.
Because they'll never accept liability otherwise.
Flybe, like many others, are not good at accepting responsibility for this sort of thing.
If pax and crew haven't been for a blood test - then go now. And get it documented so when you are overcome in x weeks/months time you have some evidence of the cause.
Because they'll never accept liability otherwise.
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Bad Robot and Cattle Class - I have never heard such useless tripe in all my life, than that posted by you two.
This incident was a non-event and was not worthy of all the attention that it has received. A couple went to hospital and were discharged immediately as there was nothing wrong with them......there is a surprise (not)
I think this thread has now past its sell by date - there are no developments nor any further comment that can be made which is of any use or relevance
This incident was a non-event and was not worthy of all the attention that it has received. A couple went to hospital and were discharged immediately as there was nothing wrong with them......there is a surprise (not)
I think this thread has now past its sell by date - there are no developments nor any further comment that can be made which is of any use or relevance
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Cloud1 - if you want to ignore the potential and very real dangers of inhalation of organo-phosphates including TCP from very small quantities of such contaminants (as found in engine oil additives) then that is your choice.
However if you have ever met people who have had their life ruined by from such exposure you might think again. I would therefore suggest that you keep your ill informed thoughts to yourself rather than trying to influence people who may not know better. Blood testing does not harm - but may show that harm has been done. I would advocate it for all in such a position.
However if you have ever met people who have had their life ruined by from such exposure you might think again. I would therefore suggest that you keep your ill informed thoughts to yourself rather than trying to influence people who may not know better. Blood testing does not harm - but may show that harm has been done. I would advocate it for all in such a position.
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Cloud1,
How on earth can you call Smoke in the Cabin/Flight Deck a Non Event!
Any smoke/fume event is an MOR. Any event that necessitates the use of medical Oxygen, either Flight crews Oxy masks or Oxy administered in the cabin is also an MOR event.
For the record, the Dash Q400 does not have a drop down Oxygen supply,
which is why I assume the CC were offering it from portables if any Pax needed it.
Have any of the passengers been informed that they have been exposed to nuero toxins? No? I didn't think so. If they had, then they may well have wanted a very comprhehensive medical screening to see what poisons that they had been exposed to.
What is certain is, if the smoke and fumes came in to the Air Con system due to a seal failure then I can absoultley GAURANTEE that eveyone on board has been exposed to a serious alphabet soup of extremely toxic chemicals.
Still calling this an " Non Event" ?
Obviously you haven't a Clue about Commercial Aviation practices.
How on earth can you call Smoke in the Cabin/Flight Deck a Non Event!
Any smoke/fume event is an MOR. Any event that necessitates the use of medical Oxygen, either Flight crews Oxy masks or Oxy administered in the cabin is also an MOR event.
For the record, the Dash Q400 does not have a drop down Oxygen supply,
which is why I assume the CC were offering it from portables if any Pax needed it.
Have any of the passengers been informed that they have been exposed to nuero toxins? No? I didn't think so. If they had, then they may well have wanted a very comprhehensive medical screening to see what poisons that they had been exposed to.
What is certain is, if the smoke and fumes came in to the Air Con system due to a seal failure then I can absoultley GAURANTEE that eveyone on board has been exposed to a serious alphabet soup of extremely toxic chemicals.
Still calling this an " Non Event" ?
Obviously you haven't a Clue about Commercial Aviation practices.
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Surely people with adverse reactions to the so called "toxins" are people who have been exposed to it over a period of time. I fail to see how 15 minutes of exposure is going to cause any long term health effects on anyone. I'm open to being proved wrong of course.
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Just one flight can cause Aerotoxic Syndrome and ruin your health for years to come...
Learn more at Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome
The ignorance on such matters by some people in this forum is very sad to see.
Learn more at Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome
The ignorance on such matters by some people in this forum is very sad to see.
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Just one flight......
Cloud 1,
This is what can happen on 'just one flight'.
Vaughn press release
Seattle Video | News Video | TV Video | KING 5 News | KING5.com
Don't enjoy...
DB
This is what can happen on 'just one flight'.
Vaughn press release
Seattle Video | News Video | TV Video | KING 5 News | KING5.com
Don't enjoy...
DB
Learn more at Aerotoxic Assiociation - Support for sufferers of Aerotoxic Syndrome
The ignorance on such matters by some people in this forum is very sad to see.
The ignorance on such matters by some people in this forum is very sad to see.
The scientific community has to work with facts and data that prioritizes actions in a relative sense.
The general members of PPrune don't make up the scientific community with expertise in air borne toxins and their long term effects.
I'm still open to a consensus report that includes the government experts with a clear set of data not just opinions.
But certainly this whole subject belongs in its own thread and not just as a rider on a convenient incident/accident of the day thread.
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My Take on the Day-Very Inconvenienced Passengers NOT Complaining!
I was at Gatwick that day booked on BE802 scheduled to depart LGW for NQY at 0900. The inbound aircraft, a Q400 was held at NQY because of a failure of the oxygen system. BE sent an engineer from Exeter to NQY to fix the problem. Inbound aircraft arrived LGW about 1130 and we were allowed to board at 1215. Naturally loads of bitching from passengers regarding delay, including me as arrived from HKG at 0500.
1225 about to push back and Captain announced LGW closed due to emergency landing, i.e. BE1432. While we sat stuck for another 2 hours on the plane before eventually taking off, the Captain graciously allowing free use of the washrooms and soft drinks, nobody on the plane complained from that point.
Even the Stag Party lager louts and Party girls understood there was a situation requiring priority, and I did not mind eating my long awaited for Cornish Pasty cold (it still tasted good!).
Nicc HK
1225 about to push back and Captain announced LGW closed due to emergency landing, i.e. BE1432. While we sat stuck for another 2 hours on the plane before eventually taking off, the Captain graciously allowing free use of the washrooms and soft drinks, nobody on the plane complained from that point.
Even the Stag Party lager louts and Party girls understood there was a situation requiring priority, and I did not mind eating my long awaited for Cornish Pasty cold (it still tasted good!).
Nicc HK
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Clear set of data...
Iomapaseo,
I think everybody is agreed that we need 'a clear set of data'.
We have been asking, on everybody's behalf, exactly which chemicals and concentrations are in visible oil fumes for nearly 3 years now - along with the UK House of Lords who recommended the Government urgently provide exactly this same data in 2007.
To date NO DATA has been provided, but it might be available 'next' year...
Most people can therefore conclude that the known data is NOT convenient and is being with held - for as long as possible.
I can assure you that if high levels of organo phosphates are found in oil smoke - it will immediately explain the very serious ill health found in the many people who have breathed these chemicals in confined spaces for so many years.
International experts at a BALPA conference in 2005 concluded that chemicals in confined spaces DEFINITELY cause serious ill health in aircrew and passengers. No question.
Witholding / denying the 'clear set of data' we all wish to see is not very intelligent. Is it?
After all, it will be known - one day.
YouTube - Pilot Union Boss Blows Whistle
DB
I think everybody is agreed that we need 'a clear set of data'.
We have been asking, on everybody's behalf, exactly which chemicals and concentrations are in visible oil fumes for nearly 3 years now - along with the UK House of Lords who recommended the Government urgently provide exactly this same data in 2007.
To date NO DATA has been provided, but it might be available 'next' year...
Most people can therefore conclude that the known data is NOT convenient and is being with held - for as long as possible.
I can assure you that if high levels of organo phosphates are found in oil smoke - it will immediately explain the very serious ill health found in the many people who have breathed these chemicals in confined spaces for so many years.
International experts at a BALPA conference in 2005 concluded that chemicals in confined spaces DEFINITELY cause serious ill health in aircrew and passengers. No question.
Witholding / denying the 'clear set of data' we all wish to see is not very intelligent. Is it?
After all, it will be known - one day.
YouTube - Pilot Union Boss Blows Whistle
DB
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Gents,
I have been reading about the "fumes" advice as a Q400 pilot how quickly should you get a blood test? Or is that a limit when it becomes inaffective? As they say prevention is better than cure something to look out for in the future!
I have been reading about the "fumes" advice as a Q400 pilot how quickly should you get a blood test? Or is that a limit when it becomes inaffective? As they say prevention is better than cure something to look out for in the future!
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Blood tests
Maverick8701,
The blood test presently being developed in the US needs to be tested within 10 weeks of exposure. It will then tell the exact time and date of exposure. It is not quite available, yet.
There are blood tests than can be done now which will show up organo phosphates etc but the most reliable check is to check the fat - that is where the toxins are stored.
Blood can be checked and this shows the past damage.
Example:
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...%2007-2009.pdf
None of this is done by the NHS; it is all private and costs around £450.
If you have odd medical symptoms and you want a blood / fat test, contact the experts for help.
DB
The blood test presently being developed in the US needs to be tested within 10 weeks of exposure. It will then tell the exact time and date of exposure. It is not quite available, yet.
There are blood tests than can be done now which will show up organo phosphates etc but the most reliable check is to check the fat - that is where the toxins are stored.
Blood can be checked and this shows the past damage.
Example:
http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...%2007-2009.pdf
None of this is done by the NHS; it is all private and costs around £450.
If you have odd medical symptoms and you want a blood / fat test, contact the experts for help.
DB
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Flybe diversion
My Son was on that plane...and I take exception to many of the unprofessional comments on this diversion. Any half-trained pilot know that you dont mess with a cockpit fire of any description, you get the thing down on the ground and the pax out. I hope none of the guys who posted the comments about the inconvenience of the diversion are in the cockpit or ATC when any member of my family flies in the UK again!
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Just to put your mind at rest, I think you'll find that the inane comments and 'should have gone somewhere else' suggestions were from spotters / amateurs / enthusiasts / passengers.
Most is not all commercial pilots would treat smoke and/or fumes in the cabin or flightdeck as a serious emergency requiring immediate diversion to the nearest suitable runway, and would be given every assistance by ATC. Which is exactly what happened.
Most is not all commercial pilots would treat smoke and/or fumes in the cabin or flightdeck as a serious emergency requiring immediate diversion to the nearest suitable runway, and would be given every assistance by ATC. Which is exactly what happened.
