AF Emergency Landing in BOS
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swedflyer:
It probably should have read something like:
1) Get fire warning
2) Shut down engine
3) Blow bottles, verify fire out (added on edit)
4) Dump fuel
5) Land the aircraft
You can dump fuel even with an engine fire, you don't want to land overweight and bring even more gas to the party.
Dump fuel when you have an indicated engine fire?
1) Get fire warning
2) Shut down engine
3) Blow bottles, verify fire out (added on edit)
4) Dump fuel
5) Land the aircraft
You can dump fuel even with an engine fire, you don't want to land overweight and bring even more gas to the party.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Engine fire in flight; LAND ASAP
It's in my opinion a lot better with an overweight landing inspection than circling around and dumping fuel.
It's in my opinion a lot better with an overweight landing inspection than circling around and dumping fuel.
It sounds like the fire indication went out after being dealt with by the crew after take off. Even on a twin this situation is no longer a Mayday but now a PAN and fuel dumping to max landing weight recommended. This was a 4 engine jet where in many company SOP's an engine shutdown is not really an emergency at all, but I won't even open that well used can of worms!!!
Really having a problem seeing how this was handled badly in ANY way from the cursory explanation given here.
sb sfo's list of the course of events is exactly as what most operators would do. Seems like a standard simulator like emergency handled well. No stirring to be done here Swedflyer.
If you are the pilot of a heavy jet which has a major differences between Max TOW and landing weight you may want to revisit the few instances where the company and operator SOP's consider it prudent to land over max landing weight, it's not normally considered for much more than uncontained fires and smoke maybe your's say different!
Jazzy
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Since I don't have all parameters, I haven't judged the crew for doing wrong, just questioning the fuel dumping. With an indicated engine fire it is not very likely that that aircraft will take off again that day. So why not make an O/W landing? It will be time enough for the inspection. Weightwise, they were probably (again, don't have the details) not too close to the max TOW on this flight.
LAND ASAP is from A340 FCOM.
There has been tragic consequensies before, dumping fuel iso landing asap.
Also;"dumped fuel, and landed minutes later" How much fuel did they dump since the output rate is approximately 1000 kg/min. Can't be much.
LAND ASAP is from A340 FCOM.
There has been tragic consequensies before, dumping fuel iso landing asap.
Also;"dumped fuel, and landed minutes later" How much fuel did they dump since the output rate is approximately 1000 kg/min. Can't be much.
Last edited by swedflyer; 25th Jul 2009 at 11:42.
The Reverend
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Swedflier, provided that the overweight landing does not cause any further damage, which rarely happens if done with due care; it really is not necessary once the fire is out. I have two entries in my logbooks of 33 years, one being an engine failure due bird strike on takeoff and one of engine fire in cruise. We dumped fuel down to max ldg. wt. in the failure case before landing and carried on to destination after discharging the fire bottle, which terminated the fire warning, in the second case. We did land at the nearest SUITABLE landing place which happened to be our destination, having three more engines to get us there safely.
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LAND ASAP is from A340 FCOM.
I'm not an Airbus pilot so have no idea what the emergency checklist states for that type. If you do have access can you say whether if you follow the engine fire checklist, and the fire then goes out the checklist states whether fuel dumping to max landing weight is then part of the checklist before it says Land ASAP (or does is state at nearest suitable).
On Boeing's that fuel jettison process can be run to automatically (in my aircraft) to stop at MLW so can be done while you brief and prepare to return.
I do however completely accept that on a BOS-CDG flight they may have been pretty light anyway.
I'm just questioning the prudence of a decision to override the published and expected process certified by the company, manufacturer and the authorities and landing overweight in a 4 engine jet when there has been a completely contained fire followed by a single engine shutdown.
Without doubt that often misused term 'airmanship' comes into the decision and lies entirely with the crew on the day and the circumstances they feel they are encountering and all checklists go out of the window if the situation deems necessary...however...my question is, in this seemingly straightforward circumstance is it one of those times?
As you state we don't have the facts that were in the hands of the crew, but it does seem little if anything they did is in question. Textbook situation handled exactly by the book. Crew, company, pax, authorities and lawyers all happy!
Jazzy
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