Yemeni airliner down?
I canīt get that link to work for some reason, so hereīs another website quoting the "French missile" theory:
Arab Monitor - Sito di informazione dal mondo arabo
Arab Monitor - Sito di informazione dal mondo arabo
The Wall Street Journal quotes "sources close to the investihation", as usual, saying it looks like the pilots lost situational awareness and control of the aircraft during the circle-to-land approach:
Pilot Error Suspected in Yemenia Airways Crash - WSJ.com
Pilot Error Suspected in Yemenia Airways Crash - WSJ.com
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I have made my feelings on the usefulness of the WSJ aviation reports before. From that 'news' article:-
The approach can be difficult at night and in bad weather because pilots have to bank and circle while ensuring they line up with the runway. If they turn too sharply, the plane can end up too high and too fast, without enough time to make the proper descent.
Sounds exactly like what I call a circling approach?
According to the people familiar with the inquiry, the plane had trouble maintaining steady altitude in the turn, possibly because of strong winds. Air-traffic controllers and navigation equipment provided a landing path to the pilots, who circled the airport to land. The pilots failed to stop their turn in time and didn't correctly line up the aircraft with the runway. Then the plane, according to people familiar with the probe, stalled and the pilots lost control.
OK - so they went through the centreline and stalled. Those 'winds' can make it really difficult to 'maintain steady altitude'? Perhaps they mean 'turbulence'?
The aircraft ended up continuing for several miles before plunging into the Indian Ocean, according to the people familiar with the inquiry.
Ah! It didn't stall then? In fact it was not even turning finals.
All in all a really useful article
The approach can be difficult at night and in bad weather because pilots have to bank and circle while ensuring they line up with the runway. If they turn too sharply, the plane can end up too high and too fast, without enough time to make the proper descent.
Sounds exactly like what I call a circling approach?
According to the people familiar with the inquiry, the plane had trouble maintaining steady altitude in the turn, possibly because of strong winds. Air-traffic controllers and navigation equipment provided a landing path to the pilots, who circled the airport to land. The pilots failed to stop their turn in time and didn't correctly line up the aircraft with the runway. Then the plane, according to people familiar with the probe, stalled and the pilots lost control.
OK - so they went through the centreline and stalled. Those 'winds' can make it really difficult to 'maintain steady altitude'? Perhaps they mean 'turbulence'?
The aircraft ended up continuing for several miles before plunging into the Indian Ocean, according to the people familiar with the inquiry.
Ah! It didn't stall then? In fact it was not even turning finals.
All in all a really useful article
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Thanks for the reflex.
Even if not spelled out in a professional manner the scenario sounds common to other accidents (Armavia, Kenya 310, Kenya 738, Gulf Air, Colgan, Perm to name a few)
Where the pilots trained to Soviet type horizons before?
Even if not spelled out in a professional manner the scenario sounds common to other accidents (Armavia, Kenya 310, Kenya 738, Gulf Air, Colgan, Perm to name a few)
Where the pilots trained to Soviet type horizons before?
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BOAC,
WSJ is what people like to call a Reference ...
Andy Pasztor has some difficulties to do without his favorite formula "according to someone"
Andy, you could also speak for yourself or quote and name precisely your source if you intend to practice serious journalism.
WSJ is what people like to call a Reference ...
Andy Pasztor has some difficulties to do without his favorite formula "according to someone"
Andy, you could also speak for yourself or quote and name precisely your source if you intend to practice serious journalism.
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Practicing serious journalism or not, Andy seems to have the story when no one else does. He's had the scoop on all the recent crashes and incidents. He definitely has some sources, even though unnamed.
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for what its worth
i work for a company that flies a private jet in there often.
on a good day it is a scenic no brainer approach to either runway. i have only seen minor bad wx conditions but can see if they were bad wx and at night it would be no where any pilot would really want to be. yes big runway and one ILS but the winds are shifty and there is nothing but crazy ass flashing lights to assure you of no cfit on the other runway.
in my opinion, if they came from Yemen they had lots of fuel and probably could have flown back to the departure airport if they wanted. fuel is not cheap in maroni so they would have round tripped it. so if they crashed it then they thought they could get in. but that runway at night with those winds would be a nightmare. nothing but some flashing lights on a circling approach.
simply put, unfamiliar with the area, bad wx, and black night syndrome made this happen.
i have met with the people still sorting through the bodies till today and it is not good.
i am sure the pilots did all they could but this place can be tricky and needs to be looked at before further developement on the island leads to another incedent.
on a good day it is a scenic no brainer approach to either runway. i have only seen minor bad wx conditions but can see if they were bad wx and at night it would be no where any pilot would really want to be. yes big runway and one ILS but the winds are shifty and there is nothing but crazy ass flashing lights to assure you of no cfit on the other runway.
in my opinion, if they came from Yemen they had lots of fuel and probably could have flown back to the departure airport if they wanted. fuel is not cheap in maroni so they would have round tripped it. so if they crashed it then they thought they could get in. but that runway at night with those winds would be a nightmare. nothing but some flashing lights on a circling approach.
simply put, unfamiliar with the area, bad wx, and black night syndrome made this happen.
i have met with the people still sorting through the bodies till today and it is not good.
i am sure the pilots did all they could but this place can be tricky and needs to be looked at before further developement on the island leads to another incedent.
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Granted all the reported 'difficulties' of this airport (of which I have no experience) but what still remains a complete mystery to me is the reported location of the crash. All this talk of poor lighting, 'shifty' winds and the like does not explain a crash so far away from any conceivable approach or circuit pattern and, as far as I can see, the 'wrong' side of difficult terrain.
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does seem strange given the location of the actual crash, but i think all the other factors (winds, very dark night, poor facilities, missed approach) contributed to the classic snow ball effect accident.
don't know if these pilots flew there before but (and i am not the Moroni expert) on my first trip there it was a little stressful. non radar environment, difficult communications at times, not knowing really what to expect. i would think most pilots would take a little tailwind to land on 02. these guys didn't have that option and things got hectic.
possibly with the equipment change for this flight the pilots had not gone there.?
don't know if these pilots flew there before but (and i am not the Moroni expert) on my first trip there it was a little stressful. non radar environment, difficult communications at times, not knowing really what to expect. i would think most pilots would take a little tailwind to land on 02. these guys didn't have that option and things got hectic.
possibly with the equipment change for this flight the pilots had not gone there.?
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Some bodies were washed up on the African coast recently. I saw a DC-9 at Moroni at the end of October that carried the bodies back. I was told that it was not possible at that time to identify all of the bodies. RIP.
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BEA Blasts Comoros Over Yemenia Crash
By Robert Wall [email protected]
LONDON
The lack of progress in the crash investigation of Yemenia flight IY626 has drawn unusually sharp criticism from the French air accident investigation office, the BEA, which is urging the Comoros authorities to move to publish a final report without further delay.
The dispute centers around the crash of an Airbus A310 flying from Sanaa, Yemen to Moroni, Comoros on June 30, 2009 in which 153 persons died with a single survivor. Most of the passengers originated in France.
BEA director Jean-Paul Troadec on July 5 sent an unusually blunt letter to the head of the accident investigation complaining that the review has not made sufficient progress. He notes that a report has been compiled by local authorities, which was completed last month, but still has not been made public. He also notes that document appears to be mere findings of initial facts, which should have been issued within three months of the accident.
He criticizes the fact that data recorders have not been analyzed because of what he characterizes as baseless arguments, noting that France contributed 3 million to recover the so-called black boxes.
BEA reached out to the local authorities before, including last year when it proposed a work plan to advance the investigation, but no action has been taken. Troadec writes that he is left to conclude the accident investigation has failed to advance since September 2009.
The BEA chief also calls on his counterpart to quickly put together a work program to see the investigation to its conclusion.
French political involvement early on has contributed to a difficult atmosphere in the IY626 investigation. Politicians accused Yemenia of operating an unsafe aircraft, causing a backlash with authorities in Yemen. The airline said it wanted an independent, third party investigation, citing the attacks from France.
AVIATION WEEK
By Robert Wall [email protected]
LONDON
The lack of progress in the crash investigation of Yemenia flight IY626 has drawn unusually sharp criticism from the French air accident investigation office, the BEA, which is urging the Comoros authorities to move to publish a final report without further delay.
The dispute centers around the crash of an Airbus A310 flying from Sanaa, Yemen to Moroni, Comoros on June 30, 2009 in which 153 persons died with a single survivor. Most of the passengers originated in France.
BEA director Jean-Paul Troadec on July 5 sent an unusually blunt letter to the head of the accident investigation complaining that the review has not made sufficient progress. He notes that a report has been compiled by local authorities, which was completed last month, but still has not been made public. He also notes that document appears to be mere findings of initial facts, which should have been issued within three months of the accident.
He criticizes the fact that data recorders have not been analyzed because of what he characterizes as baseless arguments, noting that France contributed 3 million to recover the so-called black boxes.
BEA reached out to the local authorities before, including last year when it proposed a work plan to advance the investigation, but no action has been taken. Troadec writes that he is left to conclude the accident investigation has failed to advance since September 2009.
The BEA chief also calls on his counterpart to quickly put together a work program to see the investigation to its conclusion.
French political involvement early on has contributed to a difficult atmosphere in the IY626 investigation. Politicians accused Yemenia of operating an unsafe aircraft, causing a backlash with authorities in Yemen. The airline said it wanted an independent, third party investigation, citing the attacks from France.
AVIATION WEEK
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The lack of progress in the crash investigation of Yemenia flight IY626 has drawn unusually sharp criticism from the French air accident investigation office, the BEA,
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Yemenia faces mounting French pressure over crash probe 13 Dec 2011
Yemeni flag-carrier Yemenia could come under pressure from the European Commission as France's government becomes increasingly impatient with investigative progress on a fatal Airbus A310 accident.The Yemenia A310 crashed off the coast of the Comoros Islands in June 2009, killing 152 on board, but the investigation has "stalled", said French transport minister Thierry Mariani.
He reiterated French determination to obtain an explanation for the accident, but added that - despite offers of assistance from France's Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses - there had been a lack of co-operation from the Yemeni authorities and no inquiry report from the Comoros.
Following discussions with representatives of the victims' families, Mariani said: "The government is more determined than ever to shed some light on this tragedy."
He said the situation was "unacceptable" and that France would maintain diplomatic pressure and examine all options available, adding that this includes exploring, with the European Commission, the implications of the Yemeni authorities' attitude regarding flight safety at Yemenia.
Yemenia has previously been discussed by the European Air Safety Committee - responsible for drawing-up the blacklist of banned airlines - but has not faced restrictions to its services as a result.
Yemenia faces mounting French pressure over crash probe
Yemeni flag-carrier Yemenia could come under pressure from the European Commission as France's government becomes increasingly impatient with investigative progress on a fatal Airbus A310 accident.The Yemenia A310 crashed off the coast of the Comoros Islands in June 2009, killing 152 on board, but the investigation has "stalled", said French transport minister Thierry Mariani.
He reiterated French determination to obtain an explanation for the accident, but added that - despite offers of assistance from France's Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses - there had been a lack of co-operation from the Yemeni authorities and no inquiry report from the Comoros.
Following discussions with representatives of the victims' families, Mariani said: "The government is more determined than ever to shed some light on this tragedy."
He said the situation was "unacceptable" and that France would maintain diplomatic pressure and examine all options available, adding that this includes exploring, with the European Commission, the implications of the Yemeni authorities' attitude regarding flight safety at Yemenia.
Yemenia has previously been discussed by the European Air Safety Committee - responsible for drawing-up the blacklist of banned airlines - but has not faced restrictions to its services as a result.
Yemenia faces mounting French pressure over crash probe
Pegase Driver
The BEA knows basically what happenned. Problem is unless the Investigation State formally request the BEA to publish something, they are not allowed to. Hence the frustration.