Florida's pilot factory
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Florida's pilot factory
Florida’s ‘pilot factory’ – amFIX - CNN.com Blogs
A recent plane crash in Buffalo New York that killed some 50 people led to questions about the training of those in the cockpit. Those questions led CNN to The Gulfstream Training Academy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
The Academy promises to train amateur pilots who aspire to fly for a commercial airline in just three months. Students pay $30,000 in tuition and in return, the Academy provides cheap, co-pilots-in-training for Gulfstream International Airlines as they work to increase their hours of flying time.
Gulfstream’s website promotes this part of their training on its website saying, “Gulfstream Training Academy’s First Officer Program offers airline-bound aviation professionals training and experience at an actual airline flying real flights for Gulfstream International Airlines.”
After 12 weeks of training, students serve as First Officers, also known as co-pilots, on Continental Connection flights in Florida and the Bahamas that are operated by Gulfstream International. They get 250 hours of paid on-the-job-training, in addition to the 300 hours they need to qualify for the program.
That’s a red flag for veteran pilots like Pat Moore who find the training tactic questionable. “I don’t know how they can market that as training for these co-pilots while at the same time providing revenue service for paying passengers.”
Most major airlines require co-pilots to have a minimum of 1,500 hours of flight time. That’s three to five times the amount of some students entering Gulfstream’s First Officer program.
“I really don’t want somebody in the right seat that’s just learning, that’s gaining experience, said Moore. “I want an experienced crew. When I buy an airplane ticket, that’s what I’m paying for.” He compares it to going to a medical student for healthcare instead of a doctor.
Continental Airlines told CNN, “We expect our partners to adhere to the highest safety standards.”
But, there have been other recent plane crashes involving pilots from Gulfstream Academy, including a Colgan Air crash that killed 50 people as their plane neared Buffalo, New York. In 2004, two pilots, both graduates of Gulfstream Academy, died near Jefferson City, Missouri after taking a Pinnacle Air plane on a joy ride up to 41,000 feet. They crashed after losing control of the plane. The National Transportation Safety Board blamed “the pilots’ unprofessional behavior” and “poor airmanship.” And in 2003, a pilot of a private airplane, who was still training at Gulfstream, crashed into another plane off the coast of Deerfield Beach, Florida, killing all five people aboard both airplanes.
“The one thing that ties them all together is poor airmanship,” said Captain Jack Casey, Chief Operating Officer of Safety Operating System, an aviation consulting firm. “You cannot build sophisticated airline pilot skills on top of a soft foundation.”
This “pilot factory” as some veteran pilots call the academy, is a quick ticket into the cockpit, which can be very attractive to perspective pilots who want to fly but don’t want to spend years building up enough hours flying private planes.
One pilot, who did not want to be named, finds the process alarming. “The captain has to work as a captain and an instructor. It’s troubling that they don’t disclose it to the public.”
Gulfstream Academy defends its program, telling CNN, “Gulfstream does an outstanding job training commercial pilots, and it has done so for nearly two decades and thousands of pilots in an FAA-approved program. Every U.S. commercial carrier has pilots who’ve received their training here.” Indeed, the Academy says over 1700 pilots trained at Gulfstream found work with commercial airlines.
And, graduates of the program speak highly of it.
Still, long-time pilots warn their career path should not be rushed because they believe that could ultimately compromise safety.
“We’re talking about lives here,” says Pat Moore.” “This is not, ‘Gee, I like flying airplanes, I think it’s cool.’ This is – if I make a mistake and I’m not trained properly or my crew is not trained properly people can be injured or die. And I don’t know if we’re taking this seriously enough in this country anymore.”
A recent plane crash in Buffalo New York that killed some 50 people led to questions about the training of those in the cockpit. Those questions led CNN to The Gulfstream Training Academy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
The Academy promises to train amateur pilots who aspire to fly for a commercial airline in just three months. Students pay $30,000 in tuition and in return, the Academy provides cheap, co-pilots-in-training for Gulfstream International Airlines as they work to increase their hours of flying time.
Gulfstream’s website promotes this part of their training on its website saying, “Gulfstream Training Academy’s First Officer Program offers airline-bound aviation professionals training and experience at an actual airline flying real flights for Gulfstream International Airlines.”
After 12 weeks of training, students serve as First Officers, also known as co-pilots, on Continental Connection flights in Florida and the Bahamas that are operated by Gulfstream International. They get 250 hours of paid on-the-job-training, in addition to the 300 hours they need to qualify for the program.
That’s a red flag for veteran pilots like Pat Moore who find the training tactic questionable. “I don’t know how they can market that as training for these co-pilots while at the same time providing revenue service for paying passengers.”
Most major airlines require co-pilots to have a minimum of 1,500 hours of flight time. That’s three to five times the amount of some students entering Gulfstream’s First Officer program.
“I really don’t want somebody in the right seat that’s just learning, that’s gaining experience, said Moore. “I want an experienced crew. When I buy an airplane ticket, that’s what I’m paying for.” He compares it to going to a medical student for healthcare instead of a doctor.
Continental Airlines told CNN, “We expect our partners to adhere to the highest safety standards.”
But, there have been other recent plane crashes involving pilots from Gulfstream Academy, including a Colgan Air crash that killed 50 people as their plane neared Buffalo, New York. In 2004, two pilots, both graduates of Gulfstream Academy, died near Jefferson City, Missouri after taking a Pinnacle Air plane on a joy ride up to 41,000 feet. They crashed after losing control of the plane. The National Transportation Safety Board blamed “the pilots’ unprofessional behavior” and “poor airmanship.” And in 2003, a pilot of a private airplane, who was still training at Gulfstream, crashed into another plane off the coast of Deerfield Beach, Florida, killing all five people aboard both airplanes.
“The one thing that ties them all together is poor airmanship,” said Captain Jack Casey, Chief Operating Officer of Safety Operating System, an aviation consulting firm. “You cannot build sophisticated airline pilot skills on top of a soft foundation.”
This “pilot factory” as some veteran pilots call the academy, is a quick ticket into the cockpit, which can be very attractive to perspective pilots who want to fly but don’t want to spend years building up enough hours flying private planes.
One pilot, who did not want to be named, finds the process alarming. “The captain has to work as a captain and an instructor. It’s troubling that they don’t disclose it to the public.”
Gulfstream Academy defends its program, telling CNN, “Gulfstream does an outstanding job training commercial pilots, and it has done so for nearly two decades and thousands of pilots in an FAA-approved program. Every U.S. commercial carrier has pilots who’ve received their training here.” Indeed, the Academy says over 1700 pilots trained at Gulfstream found work with commercial airlines.
And, graduates of the program speak highly of it.
Still, long-time pilots warn their career path should not be rushed because they believe that could ultimately compromise safety.
“We’re talking about lives here,” says Pat Moore.” “This is not, ‘Gee, I like flying airplanes, I think it’s cool.’ This is – if I make a mistake and I’m not trained properly or my crew is not trained properly people can be injured or die. And I don’t know if we’re taking this seriously enough in this country anymore.”
Gulfstream makes every Captain be an instructor. Whether they want to or not.
This scab owned and run outfit needs to be exposed for their borderline illegal shoddy operation. They just got fined more than $1 million for neglecting FAR duty legalities. I feel for their captains who are left to be single pilot IFR baby sitters.
The real culprit is the Miami FAA FSDO that has jurisdiction over this fly by night passenger carrying travesty. But it is well known in the business that if you want to run an airline operation in the USA with little to no oversight, base it in Miami. If they kick you out of Miami, transfer to the San Juan FSDO.
The banana republic mentality at its finest.
This scab owned and run outfit needs to be exposed for their borderline illegal shoddy operation. They just got fined more than $1 million for neglecting FAR duty legalities. I feel for their captains who are left to be single pilot IFR baby sitters.
The real culprit is the Miami FAA FSDO that has jurisdiction over this fly by night passenger carrying travesty. But it is well known in the business that if you want to run an airline operation in the USA with little to no oversight, base it in Miami. If they kick you out of Miami, transfer to the San Juan FSDO.
The banana republic mentality at its finest.
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The right hand seat has been allowed to become a profit centre for an increasing number of carriers around the world. It is outrageous that this is being allowed to happen with such poor oversight and regulation by those authorities. Either they, or the insurance companies will ultimately put an end to this increasingly widespread practice. These type of occurances will probably cause the insurance companies to throw the first spanner in the works. The regulator will respond when the media heat starts to get too uncomfortable.
The right hand seat of an airliner was always intended to be a place for an appropriately experienced and adequately trained or supervised professional pilot to occupy. It was not intended to be a theme park experience for those who could cough up the cash. Fare paying passengers are right in their expectations of a complete professional crew. A First Officer who is themselves paying the carrier for the experience does not properly fulfill that criteria in the minds of a great many people.
That aside, it is the airline company who accepts this risk in return for a reduction in its costs and an increase in its income. The passenger who pays for the ticket is none the wiser unless (as in this example) the practice is highlighted on the nightly news.
The right hand seat of an airliner was always intended to be a place for an appropriately experienced and adequately trained or supervised professional pilot to occupy. It was not intended to be a theme park experience for those who could cough up the cash. Fare paying passengers are right in their expectations of a complete professional crew. A First Officer who is themselves paying the carrier for the experience does not properly fulfill that criteria in the minds of a great many people.
That aside, it is the airline company who accepts this risk in return for a reduction in its costs and an increase in its income. The passenger who pays for the ticket is none the wiser unless (as in this example) the practice is highlighted on the nightly news.
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That’s a red flag for veteran pilots like Pat Moore who find the training tactic questionable. “I don’t know how they can market that as training for these co-pilots while at the same time providing revenue service for paying passengers.”
The right hand seat of an airliner was always intended to be a place for an appropriately experienced and adequately trained or supervised professional pilot to occupy. It was not intended to be a theme park experience for those who could cough up the cash. Fare paying passengers are right in their expectations of a complete professional crew.
Perhaps a few of our European/UK management types in the airline industry there might like to reconsider the modus operande regarding very low time First Officers, and their use on passenger carrying revenue flights.
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About being a babysitter for low time f/o 's in europe.
It doesn't happen so much anymore in my company ( maybe because of the economics
) , my co-pilot collegues are now usually over 1000 hrs , many with military backgrounds.
As a non line training captain I sure felt sometimes being one , not to say being a babysitter , and a few young co-pilots really tried to kill me as to speak !
Especially in busy summer months , getting a bit tired after day 3 or 4 , I really paid attention to whom I was flying with !
It doesn't happen so much anymore in my company ( maybe because of the economics
) , my co-pilot collegues are now usually over 1000 hrs , many with military backgrounds.As a non line training captain I sure felt sometimes being one , not to say being a babysitter , and a few young co-pilots really tried to kill me as to speak !
Especially in busy summer months , getting a bit tired after day 3 or 4 , I really paid attention to whom I was flying with !
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411A, you took the words out of my mouth.
If in the US there is Gulfstream, and maybe a couple of others, then Europe is at it as a whole.
Here I go again: In +/- 10 years I'll be taking the train, and steamship for longer voyages!
Experience levels are going downhill.
Although the BUF crash, may not be experience related. Like a buddy of mine said, that has nothing to do with experience (stall recovery)-you learn that at the beginning of your flight training.
If in the US there is Gulfstream, and maybe a couple of others, then Europe is at it as a whole.
Here I go again: In +/- 10 years I'll be taking the train, and steamship for longer voyages!
Experience levels are going downhill.
Although the BUF crash, may not be experience related. Like a buddy of mine said, that has nothing to do with experience (stall recovery)-you learn that at the beginning of your flight training.
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whereas the training system may be flawed, the first thing to check is the proficiency check system..
if he wasnt capable (god rest his soul) who cleared him?.. and assuming everbody did their job and that the check pilot made an accurate assessment, its only if u see a recurring pattern of non-professionalism can u start blaming the "system"
its rather unfortunate to see captains calling these fo's killers just because their traning system(i.e these captains) was so redundant u cud have a monkey fly planes..
i believe if there are a system of checks . and i mean practical checks, companies will be forced to change their training systems eventually.
y do ppl forget their first 1000 hrs?
if he wasnt capable (god rest his soul) who cleared him?.. and assuming everbody did their job and that the check pilot made an accurate assessment, its only if u see a recurring pattern of non-professionalism can u start blaming the "system"
its rather unfortunate to see captains calling these fo's killers just because their traning system(i.e these captains) was so redundant u cud have a monkey fly planes..
i believe if there are a system of checks . and i mean practical checks, companies will be forced to change their training systems eventually.
y do ppl forget their first 1000 hrs?
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I don't for a moment disagree with assertions above that 1000+hours should be a minimum to take the RHS of a commercial passenger flight. But I'm curious what peoples opinions are as to the appropriate way to gain those hours and the breadth of experience that should go along with them. It obviously isn't just chugging around the sky in a 152 for 5 or 6 years, so whats the ideal path(non military)? And is it vaguely practical for someone with realistic financial constraints?
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Flying privatly Cessna/whatever piston for a prolonged period (over 5 years let's say) often makes pilot no longer suitable for airline environment, because along with raw flying skills (good) he also getting adopted to single pilot, light aircraft, VFR etc. Very recently we had to say goodbye to FO with as much as 4000 hrs SEP (and very good background references), after struggling for 300 hours on the right seat of airliner it become clear he cannot adopt and follow CRM, SOP, performance calculations, situation awareness in congested terminal areas etc, while most of our 300 hrs TOTAL time young FOs have absolutely no problem with it.
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BigGrecian, before you get all worked up about the FAA's training standards, hold your horses. Caus what I've seen here in Euroland is plain scary! I mean I'm scared $hitless about "what" (and I mean pilots) has been certified or allowed into the sky by JAA. And I've had plenty of sphinxter tightening experiences flying freight all over the place, N.America and Europe.
Having had the (mis) fortune to experience both systems, I can only say the the Yanks approach is a practical one, one that will save your a$$ one day, one that will come in usefull.
The JAA way is, that you can explain, draw, graph out, and formul-ate everything in the previous sentence! Doing it, however, well...
FAA flight training is a lot tougher than here. That's a fact.
FAA oversight, that's another thing, caus the "money talks, bs walks" principle applies (a lot).
Bottom line is, Airmanship is dying, everywhere, faster here in Europe than in the US.
Why do you think airplane manufacturers are building these idiot proof/computerized airplanes? (I'm not trying to start an Airbus is crap debate)
Uncle_Jay/ion_berkley: I agree with the basic trainer theory, as in flight instructing. That's where you "confirm" your basic skills.
I don't know if it would be appropriate to put a hard number on this prerequisite experience, before moving on to an airliner. Remember, quality over quantity.
Flying freight would just be bonus.
As far as financial constraints; thousands of pilots have climbed the ladder in the US system and been fine. It's called paying your dues. In fact, that way, you appreciate what you have achieved. I don't regret it at all.
What is really annoying is listening to these Euro-wonder pilots whine about how bad they have it.
How freaking bad can it be when you get into an airliner with that whopping 250 hours? Oh, right, you had to go throught that rigorous MCC training.
Having had the (mis) fortune to experience both systems, I can only say the the Yanks approach is a practical one, one that will save your a$$ one day, one that will come in usefull.
The JAA way is, that you can explain, draw, graph out, and formul-ate everything in the previous sentence! Doing it, however, well...
FAA flight training is a lot tougher than here. That's a fact.
FAA oversight, that's another thing, caus the "money talks, bs walks" principle applies (a lot).
Bottom line is, Airmanship is dying, everywhere, faster here in Europe than in the US.
Why do you think airplane manufacturers are building these idiot proof/computerized airplanes? (I'm not trying to start an Airbus is crap debate)
Uncle_Jay/ion_berkley: I agree with the basic trainer theory, as in flight instructing. That's where you "confirm" your basic skills.
I don't know if it would be appropriate to put a hard number on this prerequisite experience, before moving on to an airliner. Remember, quality over quantity.
Flying freight would just be bonus.
As far as financial constraints; thousands of pilots have climbed the ladder in the US system and been fine. It's called paying your dues. In fact, that way, you appreciate what you have achieved. I don't regret it at all.
What is really annoying is listening to these Euro-wonder pilots whine about how bad they have it.
How freaking bad can it be when you get into an airliner with that whopping 250 hours? Oh, right, you had to go throught that rigorous MCC training.
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BigGrecian
To me this summarises FAA primary training perfectly.
A complete lack of standardisation and the fact that becoming a pilot is now becoming an attendance course
To me this summarises FAA primary training perfectly.
A complete lack of standardisation and the fact that becoming a pilot is now becoming an attendance course
The groundschool exams are laughable on the FAA but backed up with an Oral which on occasion can last 120 mins which is tough.
Never worry about JAA checking, but FAA checking makes me really concentrate
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One point is that the minimum standards are enough to get started, but not ever enough to be as accomplished as one might like to be. Instead, it appears more common for flight schools to use "student pilots" as their flight jockeys to learn on the job, accumulating hours, but not necessarily conforming to a discipline that teaches and entrenches principles and aspects of actually learning to fly. The student is trapped for having paid for the schooling only to learn instead it was not really the lesson they paid for? For that, the FAA imposed a fine of how a flight school recorded/logged their student pilots’ hours as actual flight experience when in fact they were merely going through the motions without gaining the experience required. One might expect a law suit by those students that felt duped by the school as they certainly paid the price for the lesson... Or, at $20/hr wages, unlimited flight training should also be instilled as an airline requirement for F/O qualification until fulfilling enough hours to be considered genuinely qualified to fly in all flight conditions. The fight for the two person crew and demoting the flight engineer is proving to be a fatal flaw to attaining the best possible career path most every student pilot seeks as they begin to follow their own ambitions and certainly that which the FAA intends to enforce.
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The groundschool exams are laughable on the FAA but backed up with an Oral which on occasion can last 120 mins which is tough.
I found it astounding that some Captains with UK/Europen ATPL's utterly failed the FAA oral exam for an FAA type rating.
Gotta positively know your stuff with the FAA inspector, otherwise...no sale.
Flying...as well, on a heavy jet.
N4790P
Not agreeing or disagreeing with previous posts, but can someone explain why a typical FAA approved type rating course is approx half the duration of a JAA approved course?
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I have been an FAA ATP and Type Rating Examiner for more years than I like to remember and have a couple of points to make concerning check rides etc.
I Hold both JAA and FAA tickets and am currently an Examiner here in India, I say that because a lot of new Indian CPl holders have just come through the American system and are looking for their first F/O position.
When I give a check, I make full use of all the time for the oral, I have been known to go for 4 hours on more than one occasion mainly because I do not want to rush the process and to fully satisfy myself that the candidate knows what is what. On the other hand I have had orals that lasted less than 5 minutes but that is for another day.
Regarding the sim or aircraft check, it becomes very apparent within minutes whether the candidate knows what he/she is doing, I always try to put them at ease and do make allowances for nerves etc, we are not all perfect. I have to say, my client pass rate was almost 90% until coming to India, here the level of technical knowledge is very poor, flight skills follow that same trait, one reason for this is most of the candidates coming through have been funded to the tune of some $60000 plus by their family and unfortunately, the schools in the US just do not seem to have any idea what these folks will be doing when they return to India, they just want the money and send them home whilst waiting for the next one to come along. The rich kids make it here through family status and contacts as well as some rather under the table transactions.
The government is trying to clean up this system but when the underhand activities are at all the levels of the DGCA, it is very difficult.
The problems that have emerged from the Gulfstream Acadamy are about to surface over here and it is only a matter of time before we all read about it.
Regarding the time frame difference for getting typed by JAA and FAA, they are quite frankly, that the Europeans are still working on 50 year old knowledge and testing. Since when do you have to do a landing performance problem based on an L1011 landing on grass which is wet and greater than 2 inches long!
At least in the states they have managed to streamline the training both in the aircraft and the classroom. The last line though is still strong, that of the Examiner, that standard thankfully in most FSDO's that I know is still very high and I hope will remain so.
KW
I Hold both JAA and FAA tickets and am currently an Examiner here in India, I say that because a lot of new Indian CPl holders have just come through the American system and are looking for their first F/O position.
When I give a check, I make full use of all the time for the oral, I have been known to go for 4 hours on more than one occasion mainly because I do not want to rush the process and to fully satisfy myself that the candidate knows what is what. On the other hand I have had orals that lasted less than 5 minutes but that is for another day.
Regarding the sim or aircraft check, it becomes very apparent within minutes whether the candidate knows what he/she is doing, I always try to put them at ease and do make allowances for nerves etc, we are not all perfect. I have to say, my client pass rate was almost 90% until coming to India, here the level of technical knowledge is very poor, flight skills follow that same trait, one reason for this is most of the candidates coming through have been funded to the tune of some $60000 plus by their family and unfortunately, the schools in the US just do not seem to have any idea what these folks will be doing when they return to India, they just want the money and send them home whilst waiting for the next one to come along. The rich kids make it here through family status and contacts as well as some rather under the table transactions.
The government is trying to clean up this system but when the underhand activities are at all the levels of the DGCA, it is very difficult.
The problems that have emerged from the Gulfstream Acadamy are about to surface over here and it is only a matter of time before we all read about it.
Regarding the time frame difference for getting typed by JAA and FAA, they are quite frankly, that the Europeans are still working on 50 year old knowledge and testing. Since when do you have to do a landing performance problem based on an L1011 landing on grass which is wet and greater than 2 inches long!
At least in the states they have managed to streamline the training both in the aircraft and the classroom. The last line though is still strong, that of the Examiner, that standard thankfully in most FSDO's that I know is still very high and I hope will remain so.
KW
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kwachon,
"Regarding the time frame difference for getting typed by JAA and FAA, they are quite frankly, that the Europeans are still working on 50 year old knowledge and testing. Since when do you have to do a landing performance problem based on an L1011 landing on grass which is wet and greater than 2 inches long!"
Well said.
"Regarding the time frame difference for getting typed by JAA and FAA, they are quite frankly, that the Europeans are still working on 50 year old knowledge and testing. Since when do you have to do a landing performance problem based on an L1011 landing on grass which is wet and greater than 2 inches long!"
Well said.