U.S. Navy EP-3 forced down by Chinese
Guest
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Jacko -
Persecution complex?? China???
With Clinton & company sucking up to the Chinese markets, accepting a horrendous trade imbalance, hiding the Chinese nuclear espionage, shipping tools & jigs to facilitate Chinese cruise missiles, capable of delivering compact neutron bombs? Clinton & company crammming China down the American peoples' throats in the WTO support?
Persecution complex???
Did I miss something?
Persecution complex?? China???
With Clinton & company sucking up to the Chinese markets, accepting a horrendous trade imbalance, hiding the Chinese nuclear espionage, shipping tools & jigs to facilitate Chinese cruise missiles, capable of delivering compact neutron bombs? Clinton & company crammming China down the American peoples' throats in the WTO support?
Persecution complex???
Did I miss something?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Wino and SkyD, with the greatest respect, I think you should accept gracefully that in the (non US) democratic world there are actually people who rightly or wrongly, have come to different conclusions on the state of the world than the 'US line'. Believe it or not, there are actually other countries outside the USA with popularly elected governments where people are allowed to speak their minds and such opinions might not agree entirely with US policy.
I'm first to agree that the current government of China is far from the one I'd like to live under, (or see anyone have to live under), but can you both retreat just for one minute from the position you appear to be taking and ask yourself an admittedly complex and uncomfortable question? What would have happened within China if the unquestionably incredibly courageous protesters at Tiannamen Square had prevailed and the current PRC government had been turfed out in 1989?
We may have seen a wonderful, enlightened democracy (as we in the West know it) established overnight. However, uncomfortable as it is to say so, I believe it's far more likely we'd have seen that huge country descend into a state of utter chaos that would have left Russia and the former Yugoslavia over the last ten years look like a minor school yard brawl. In modern times, it's only in the last fifty years that China hasn't been ruled by a very disparate group of (many different) warlords, most of them of the lowest possible kind. I think China would have very quickly descended into a repeat of those terrible times of the 1920's, before the Japanese entered the equation and turned the country into a charnel house but gave most of the Chinese people one enemy to fight. I'm not saying the terrible things the current PRC government have done and are doing to the Chinese people are in any way excusable, but I am saying that things there could quite easily be a whole lot worse. Think of Yugoslavia times ten thousand. That's how bad it could be if the iron fist of the current government were to be removed and not be replaced by something strong and uniting. Sadly, I don't think our Western brand of democracy would provide that.
I'm first to agree that the current government of China is far from the one I'd like to live under, (or see anyone have to live under), but can you both retreat just for one minute from the position you appear to be taking and ask yourself an admittedly complex and uncomfortable question? What would have happened within China if the unquestionably incredibly courageous protesters at Tiannamen Square had prevailed and the current PRC government had been turfed out in 1989?
We may have seen a wonderful, enlightened democracy (as we in the West know it) established overnight. However, uncomfortable as it is to say so, I believe it's far more likely we'd have seen that huge country descend into a state of utter chaos that would have left Russia and the former Yugoslavia over the last ten years look like a minor school yard brawl. In modern times, it's only in the last fifty years that China hasn't been ruled by a very disparate group of (many different) warlords, most of them of the lowest possible kind. I think China would have very quickly descended into a repeat of those terrible times of the 1920's, before the Japanese entered the equation and turned the country into a charnel house but gave most of the Chinese people one enemy to fight. I'm not saying the terrible things the current PRC government have done and are doing to the Chinese people are in any way excusable, but I am saying that things there could quite easily be a whole lot worse. Think of Yugoslavia times ten thousand. That's how bad it could be if the iron fist of the current government were to be removed and not be replaced by something strong and uniting. Sadly, I don't think our Western brand of democracy would provide that.
Guest
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First of all, from my postings on this subject you know that I believe the Chinese were at fault for this tragic accident.
Nevertheless, I also believe that Washington, now pumped up with the return of the crew, (mom, apple pie, lots of bands in the town square) does not get too carried away with its own rhetoric and try to shove this incident down the throats of the Chinese, thus leaving them with no place to retreat or to escape.
The Chinese mind works a lot differently than that of the Senator from Maine, or the President from Texas. When we say, "Yeah, we blew that one," we can come out honestly and admit it. In China, as it is in many other Asian countries, there is a lot of face saving that matters and people rarely admit to goofs.
I have not heard anyone from Sony saying "we blew it" when they introduced BETA. No, they didn't make a statement at all, but quietly withdrew and started to make all their equipment compatible with VHS. And when it does really hit them in the face, at least one, if not two, presidents or chairmen of JAL resigned after air crashes.
If I were Bush, I would not push them completely in the corner with the talks over the Hainan Island incident.
You have to remember one important thing. After World War II, China and the Soviet Union were the greatest of friends -- bosom buddies -- with larger than life-size Lenin, Stalin and Mao posters hanging all over important places. Then something happened. It was a low-key territorial dispute on the Sino-Soviet border.
The Soviets, thinking pseudo-Western, sent some bad hard-talking diplomats to negotiations with the Chinese who told Bejing (Peking at the time)in no uncertain terms to get straight or stuff it. China, instead, told Moscow to stuff it and sent several hundred thousand troops to start a border war with the Russians. It was fortunate that this border war did not develop into World War III.
Eventually both sides saw reason and withdrew, but to this very day relations between the Russians and the Chinese are cordial but icy. This piss ant border war happened more than 30 years ago and still both sides are very much on the edge and distrust the other side immensly.
I hope the U.S. gets everything it wants out of these current talks and future negotiations with the Chinese, but not at the expense of setting bilateral relations back, maybe 30 or 40 years, by demanding instead of negotiating.
Nevertheless, I also believe that Washington, now pumped up with the return of the crew, (mom, apple pie, lots of bands in the town square) does not get too carried away with its own rhetoric and try to shove this incident down the throats of the Chinese, thus leaving them with no place to retreat or to escape.
The Chinese mind works a lot differently than that of the Senator from Maine, or the President from Texas. When we say, "Yeah, we blew that one," we can come out honestly and admit it. In China, as it is in many other Asian countries, there is a lot of face saving that matters and people rarely admit to goofs.
I have not heard anyone from Sony saying "we blew it" when they introduced BETA. No, they didn't make a statement at all, but quietly withdrew and started to make all their equipment compatible with VHS. And when it does really hit them in the face, at least one, if not two, presidents or chairmen of JAL resigned after air crashes.
If I were Bush, I would not push them completely in the corner with the talks over the Hainan Island incident.
You have to remember one important thing. After World War II, China and the Soviet Union were the greatest of friends -- bosom buddies -- with larger than life-size Lenin, Stalin and Mao posters hanging all over important places. Then something happened. It was a low-key territorial dispute on the Sino-Soviet border.
The Soviets, thinking pseudo-Western, sent some bad hard-talking diplomats to negotiations with the Chinese who told Bejing (Peking at the time)in no uncertain terms to get straight or stuff it. China, instead, told Moscow to stuff it and sent several hundred thousand troops to start a border war with the Russians. It was fortunate that this border war did not develop into World War III.
Eventually both sides saw reason and withdrew, but to this very day relations between the Russians and the Chinese are cordial but icy. This piss ant border war happened more than 30 years ago and still both sides are very much on the edge and distrust the other side immensly.
I hope the U.S. gets everything it wants out of these current talks and future negotiations with the Chinese, but not at the expense of setting bilateral relations back, maybe 30 or 40 years, by demanding instead of negotiating.
Guest
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Fascinating thread, obviously catching some interest. Interesting polarisation and analogys being put about.
Jacko,absolutely!!! 'secretive,reactionary,totalitarian...,suffering from major persecution complex...'
Now if this description fitted a neighbor of mine, and I may borrow from some of the examples being bandied around. I would consider myself as being rather less than sensible if I did not keep a weather eye out on this gent. If I considered him extreme I may even go so far to use a set of binoculars on him if I were observing some paticularly dodgy looking behaviour that I had more than a sneaking suspicion involved me (super cruiser etc).
If he then whizzed out into the public highway and fetched me a hearty wack round the ear with his baseball bat and took my bino's, yes I would consider that the behaviour might have been provocative however I would consider it criminal assault. I would ask for my property back, accepting that it might be in less than pristine condition if/when I did get it back.
I would not just piss off and stop watching.
I may just ensure that the next time I did my bat was handy, and bigger than his!
I do consider that watching one's neighbors is part of human nature. It is a) natural curiosity b) situational awareness.
both incidentaly part and parcel of self preservation.
Some obsessionaly politicaly correct/polite people are content to wander around with the blinkers up, they generaly end up in stepping into something unpleasant that they never saw coming.
Besides with neighbors fitting the preceding description who the hell needs enemies?
Paranoid you say, yes indeed I am, particularly when said neighbor has already told me he is intending to run things in my house his way if and when he gets the chance.
Jacko,absolutely!!! 'secretive,reactionary,totalitarian...,suffering from major persecution complex...'
Now if this description fitted a neighbor of mine, and I may borrow from some of the examples being bandied around. I would consider myself as being rather less than sensible if I did not keep a weather eye out on this gent. If I considered him extreme I may even go so far to use a set of binoculars on him if I were observing some paticularly dodgy looking behaviour that I had more than a sneaking suspicion involved me (super cruiser etc).
If he then whizzed out into the public highway and fetched me a hearty wack round the ear with his baseball bat and took my bino's, yes I would consider that the behaviour might have been provocative however I would consider it criminal assault. I would ask for my property back, accepting that it might be in less than pristine condition if/when I did get it back.
I would not just piss off and stop watching.
I may just ensure that the next time I did my bat was handy, and bigger than his!
I do consider that watching one's neighbors is part of human nature. It is a) natural curiosity b) situational awareness.
both incidentaly part and parcel of self preservation.
Some obsessionaly politicaly correct/polite people are content to wander around with the blinkers up, they generaly end up in stepping into something unpleasant that they never saw coming.
Besides with neighbors fitting the preceding description who the hell needs enemies?
Paranoid you say, yes indeed I am, particularly when said neighbor has already told me he is intending to run things in my house his way if and when he gets the chance.
Guest
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PATERBRAT...interesting analogy
What would you do if said person was using binos' to get a look at your wife in the shower...go round and have it out with him no doubt.
Lets not forget, this aircraft was not just wandering around "near" the Chinese border, it was in fact circling a brand new ultra-secret warship. It was, if reports are to be beleived, told in no uncertain terms to F**K OF* by the chinese - it chose not to.
Had the roles been revesred, I am more than certain we would have "let a few rounds off" to make the aircraft get away from our new toy. And if, god forbid, they bumped our "brave" pilot out of the sky, I dont think we would have a plane on the ground to look at...it would have blown out the sky forwith for an act of aggression.
Dont forget, this new warship could, by all accounts, have blasted the aircraft out of the sky as quick as look at it!!!
Personally, I think the Chinese showed quite a lot of restraint in this tense situation.
32
What would you do if said person was using binos' to get a look at your wife in the shower...go round and have it out with him no doubt.
Lets not forget, this aircraft was not just wandering around "near" the Chinese border, it was in fact circling a brand new ultra-secret warship. It was, if reports are to be beleived, told in no uncertain terms to F**K OF* by the chinese - it chose not to.
Had the roles been revesred, I am more than certain we would have "let a few rounds off" to make the aircraft get away from our new toy. And if, god forbid, they bumped our "brave" pilot out of the sky, I dont think we would have a plane on the ground to look at...it would have blown out the sky forwith for an act of aggression.
Dont forget, this new warship could, by all accounts, have blasted the aircraft out of the sky as quick as look at it!!!
Personally, I think the Chinese showed quite a lot of restraint in this tense situation.
32
Guest
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Moving way away from Professional Pilot issues now. Wouldn't be surprised if this topic moves into Non Air Transport Issues
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PPRuNe Radar
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PPRuNe Radar
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[email protected]
Guest
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Two and one half hours of talks today with the Chinese and no one is budging. The Chinese still put all the blame on the U.S., while the Yanks reject that and tell the Chinese to return their plane.
The Chinese say "nope." You cave in first and then we'll talk. Chinese say talks will resume. U.S. says not until our plane is returned.
U.S. spokesmen say this has nothing to do with plans to sell missile interceptor destroyers to Tawian. Sure.
The Chinese say "nope." You cave in first and then we'll talk. Chinese say talks will resume. U.S. says not until our plane is returned.
U.S. spokesmen say this has nothing to do with plans to sell missile interceptor destroyers to Tawian. Sure.
Guest
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Got this from a Cal friend.
Subject: AN INSIDE LOOK AT THE CHINA RESCUE MISSION
AN INSIDE LOOK AT THE CHINA RESCUE MISSION
April 12, 2001
By Captain Guy Greider
Continental Airlines
Since the mid-air collision on April 1, 2001 between a U.S. Navy EP-3 surveillance aircraft and a Chinese jet fighter, I had watched the news with mild interest. This was mostly due to the proximity of Guam to China. I never dreamed that I would play a role in this intensely watched international drama.
Somewhere in the negotiations between the United States and the Chinese Governments, it was decided that a civilian aircraft should be sent to retrieve the 24 crewmembers being detained on Hainan Island, China. A call was made to Continental Airlines headquarters in Houston, Texas. Continental was chosen because of its Guam base and its ability to launch this kind of operation at a moment's notice. From there, the operation took shape through the tireless efforts of many people working behind the scenes in a coordinated effort between the airline, the military, and the State Department.
On Saturday, April 7, 2001, I received a call at home from Captain Ralph Freeman, Continental Micronesia Director of Flight Operations. Ralph told me that the military wanted to charter one of our jets to conduct a rescue mission and asked if I would be one of the crewmembers. I said yes without hesitation. Later we were told that we would need to get passport pictures taken in case the Chinese Government required visas. We got the required photos and were under the impression that we would leave immediately. However, the negotiations slowed over the demand from the Chinese that the U.S. issue an apology that the U.S. was unwilling to give. Meanwhile, the Continental crew remained on call 24 hours a day. Our Uniforms were laid out and our bags were packed and waiting by the door.
On Wednesday evening April 11, 2001, at about 6:30 PM Ralph called again to say that the two parties were very close to an agreement to release the U.S. crew and to come to the airport. Upon arrival, we were given a briefing sheet listing the information that we would need to conduct the flight.
We would carry a Repatriation Team consisting of Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force specialists, 14 people in all. Doctors, Psychologists, and communications people with lots of gear showed up on the ramp near the airplane, ready to board. They were all dressed in casual civilian clothes.
The 155-seat jet was fitted with 2 full stretcher kits bolted in over rows of seats complete with Oxygen tanks and I.V. bottles. They did not know the condition of the 24 detained crewmembers and they were not going to take any chances. They were prepared.
When our crew was fully assembled, it consisted of 11 people. 2 pilots to fly the jet and an extra to provide relief because of the extensive flight time involved. They were Captain Tom Pinardo, Captain Pierre Frenay and I. We also carried 5 very experienced Flight Attendants. They were Debbie Percell, Susanne Hendricks, Jean Tang, Cynthia Iverson, and Beverly Haines. Our 2 onboard mechanics were Peter Lum and Julius Aguilo. Our load planner was Mike Torres.
At about 9:30 PM we received a call asking that we arrive in China no earlier than 6:00 AM, just about sunrise. It was obvious that the entire exchange would be photographed and they wanted daylight conditions. We estimated that a 2:15 AM departure from Guam would put us on the ground in Haikou precisely at 6:00 AM local China time. (2 hours earlier than Guam) Some of us just stayed on the plane, others accepted the company's invitation to come to the Continental President's Club, a local VIP lounge at the airport to try to get some rest. It was difficult to get any rest with our much-anticipated mission so near.
By 1:00 AM the pilots were back in the briefing room going over the weather, flight plan, fuel requirements and everything else that goes into a flight. Again, we loaded up the airplane and finally departed Guam International at precisely 2:15 AM.
The stretcher kits and medical gear were not the only special additions to the airplane. The company had loaded a special file into the navigation database of the flight management computer (FMC). This allowed us to gain access to navigation data needed to operate in this part of China, which is not in our normal route structure. The Repatriation Team carried sophisticated equipment to communicate with the military and government officials that would monitor our progress throughout the flight. The route of flight took us straight west from Guam toward the Philippines along the G467 airway. About half way across we turned north directly toward Hong Kong. This routing was designed to avoid flying through Taiwanese airspace, something that the Chinese could consider offensive.
Approaching the Chinese coastline, we contacted Hong Kong radar control. After establishing radar contact with us, the controller gave us a short cut to expedite his traffic flow. This was bad because it cut off considerable distance and would result in arriving too early. We compensated by slowing our airspeed until the computer again estimated a 6:00 AM arrival. The instant we turned across the short cut, the interphone rang from the back of the plane. They wanted to know why we had deviated from the flight plan. We told them it was due to Hong Kong traffic and that we had adjusted our airspeed. We were still on schedule.
Now we were approaching our destination, Haikou airport on Hainan Island. Captain Pierre Frenay was at the controls. The weather was 2000-ft overcast with 5 miles visibility and light winds out of the east. Pierre made an ILS approach to and landed on runway 9. Haikou airport is much the same as many other airports in the world that serve jet transport aircraft. It has an 11,000-ft runway with standard lighting and navigational facilities. We touched down at 6:07 AM. The first early morning light was beginning to illuminate the sky.
The local air traffic controller instructed us to follow a vehicle that was beside us on an adjacent taxiway. He led us to a remote part of the airport, away from the main terminal buildings. Once we had parked and shut down the engines, we saw many uniformed Chinese military personnel and vehicles. They did not appear to have weapons. Portable stairs were brought up to the airplane and we opened the main cabin door.
The Repatriation Team that we carried had been briefed to close down all of their communications equipment prior to landing and put it away. They were also briefed to remain in their seats in a non-threatening posture in case the Chinese military came aboard. The first and only person to come aboard was an Air China employee. He spoke English and was to act as the translator between our group and the Chinese military. He instructed us to have everyone fill out both arrival and departure documents. He collected all of our passports and left the aircraft. Before he left, he said that only one person at a time would be allowed to deplane.
Peter Lum, one of our mechanics went down to supervise the re-fueling and servicing of the airplane. When that was complete, I went down to do the walk-around inspection. I did this rather slowly because I wanted to have a chance to look around. While I was out on the ramp, a skirmish developed between people who were trying to climb a wall to photograph our aircraft and the Chinese police. Somehow, CNN managed to carry our arrival and departure live.
Once the airplane was serviced and ready to go, we looked anxiously around for any sign of the buses that carried our 24 detainees. Before that could happen however, we had a problem to deal with. A U.S. military General who was on the scene to assist in the transfer came storming up the stairs and demanded to speak with the Captain. Tom Pinardo responded. The General said that the entire mission was now in jeopardy. A document called the general declaration, which is standard on all international flights had listed the destination as Haikou, China R.O.C. The initials ROC stand for Republic of China which is .. Taiwan! The Chinese were very upset over this. Tom quickly crossed out ROC and replaced it with P.R.O.C. the Peoples Republic of China. This seemed to satisfy them.
With the airplane ready to go and the paperwork complete, 2 buses pulled up and the 24 U.S. service men and women saluted as they bolted up the stairs and settled into the back of the plane. When the last one was aboard, our passports were returned to us. The stairs were withdrawn, the cabin door closed, and we started the engines and departed. It was my turn at the controls.
Once airborne heading straight south we broke through the clouds into the bright sunshine. Pierre made a PA announcement that we were over international waters and leaving Chinese airspace. A great cheer rose from the back of the airplane. A short while later we received a telephone patch over the HF radio from Mr. Joseph Prueher, U.S Ambassador to China. He wanted to speak with Lt. Shane Osborne the 26 year old EP-3 Aircraft Commander. Lt. Osborne came to the cockpit and put on a headset. The Ambassador told him that on behalf of the President of the United States and the entire country he wanted to say welcome home . He went on to say how proud he was of everything the crew had done from their airmanship in saving the lives of the crew and aircraft, to their conduct on the ground once they had been detained. They had truly done an excellent job. After his conversation with the Ambassador, Lt. Osborne stayed in the cockpit for quite a while and told us his story pilot to pilot of what had happened during and immediately after the mid-air collision with the F-8 Chinese fighter. The fighter came up under their left wing. This pilot made 2 very close passes previously that day. He apparently misjudged the intercept and his vertical stabilizer struck the outboard left propeller on the EP-3. The U.S. plane was in straight and level flight on autopilot at the time.
The fighter broke into two pieces and plunged into the sea. The U.S. plane rolled to the left almost inverted, the pilot lost control and they began to lose altitude. The Chinese fighter had raked back across the fuselage and knocked off the nose cone causing the aircraft to buffet wildly. When the nose cone departed the aircraft it collided with and damaged the number 4 propeller on the right wing. The collision punctured the pressure vessel and the EP-3 depressurized. The collision also knocked off the pitot tubes eliminating airspeed and altitude indications in the cockpit. It also knocked off the forward bracket for the HF radio antenna. The antenna then flew back and wrapped around the tail.
We were almost upside down and totally out of control Osborne told us. The dive continued and some crew members donned parachutes. At about 8,000 feet, Osborne regained straight and level flight. They considered ditching the aircraft in the South China Sea but dismissed that option because it was certain to result in loss of life. They headed for the nearest land, Hainan Island. The U.S. crew now faced the most difficult landing of their lives. They made numerous mayday, MayDay, MayDay radio calls on internationally recognized emergency frequencies. The Chinese did not respond. Somehow, they managed to get the airplane on the ground.
Their next immediate task was to destroy the sensitive electronic surveillance equipment aboard the EP-3. Meanwhile the Chinese military had approached the aircraft in vehicles and were yelling at them through loudspeakers to deplane. The next 11 days would be a very uncertain time for them.
When we met them, they told us that they had not been abused or mistreated. Their food was adequate and plentiful. Sort of like eating in a Chinese restaurant every day one of them said. On the forth day, they got some coffee. On the fifth day, some cokes were provided. The crew did not know what kind of transport would be provided for their return home. They were pleased and surprised to see a chartered airliner from the United States.
The rest of the flight from Haikou to Anderson AFB on Guam was uneventful. During the 5 hour flight the crew was treated to the movie Men of Honor and enjoyed a first class meal. We did not know it at the time but our landing at Anderson AFB was carried live on national television.
We taxied to the parking ramp at Anderson where many people had turned out to welcome all of us home. Individuals and families with kids, both military and civilian waved American flags and cheered, showing support for the returning U.S. spy plane crew. Once the 24 U.S. crewmembers and the military Repatriation Team had deplaned at Anderson, they immediately boarded waiting buses and were whisked away. The Continental crew then became the object of intense media attention. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, Reuters and various print media interviewed us. A dizzying swirl of attention after a very long day.
We were happy, tired, and pleased that the mission was so successful as Tom flew the last segment, a 10-minute flight back to Guam International Airport. This time our passengers included Bill Meehan, President of Continental Micronesia, Guam Governor Carl Gutierrez, Lieutenant Governor Bordallo and others.
We thought the day was just about over but we had one more surprise in store. After landing, we were given a hero's welcome of our own. The airport fire department was in place to give us the traditional water cannon salute, a rainbow arch of water for us to taxi under. A reception was held at the gate with food, balloons, commemorative plaques, and more media interviews with the local television station. This was very heady stuff. As I look back on this one of a kind operation. It could not have happened without the tremendous effort and skills of many people working behind the scenes. Bill Meehan, Mitch Dubner at the SOCC in Houston, Tom Rinow at the CMI SOCC, Captain Ralph Freeman, CMI Director of Flight Operations, and many others had major rolls in coordinating this flight. It was accomplished through teamwork. The fact that it came off without a hitch is testimony to how well all these people did their jobs. The exposure that Continental Airlines received over this is a marketing manager's dream comes true. We will be remembered by millions of people as the company who conducted the China Rescue Mission . This was a proud day for Continental Airlines and for America.
Subject: AN INSIDE LOOK AT THE CHINA RESCUE MISSION
AN INSIDE LOOK AT THE CHINA RESCUE MISSION
April 12, 2001
By Captain Guy Greider
Continental Airlines
Since the mid-air collision on April 1, 2001 between a U.S. Navy EP-3 surveillance aircraft and a Chinese jet fighter, I had watched the news with mild interest. This was mostly due to the proximity of Guam to China. I never dreamed that I would play a role in this intensely watched international drama.
Somewhere in the negotiations between the United States and the Chinese Governments, it was decided that a civilian aircraft should be sent to retrieve the 24 crewmembers being detained on Hainan Island, China. A call was made to Continental Airlines headquarters in Houston, Texas. Continental was chosen because of its Guam base and its ability to launch this kind of operation at a moment's notice. From there, the operation took shape through the tireless efforts of many people working behind the scenes in a coordinated effort between the airline, the military, and the State Department.
On Saturday, April 7, 2001, I received a call at home from Captain Ralph Freeman, Continental Micronesia Director of Flight Operations. Ralph told me that the military wanted to charter one of our jets to conduct a rescue mission and asked if I would be one of the crewmembers. I said yes without hesitation. Later we were told that we would need to get passport pictures taken in case the Chinese Government required visas. We got the required photos and were under the impression that we would leave immediately. However, the negotiations slowed over the demand from the Chinese that the U.S. issue an apology that the U.S. was unwilling to give. Meanwhile, the Continental crew remained on call 24 hours a day. Our Uniforms were laid out and our bags were packed and waiting by the door.
On Wednesday evening April 11, 2001, at about 6:30 PM Ralph called again to say that the two parties were very close to an agreement to release the U.S. crew and to come to the airport. Upon arrival, we were given a briefing sheet listing the information that we would need to conduct the flight.
We would carry a Repatriation Team consisting of Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force specialists, 14 people in all. Doctors, Psychologists, and communications people with lots of gear showed up on the ramp near the airplane, ready to board. They were all dressed in casual civilian clothes.
The 155-seat jet was fitted with 2 full stretcher kits bolted in over rows of seats complete with Oxygen tanks and I.V. bottles. They did not know the condition of the 24 detained crewmembers and they were not going to take any chances. They were prepared.
When our crew was fully assembled, it consisted of 11 people. 2 pilots to fly the jet and an extra to provide relief because of the extensive flight time involved. They were Captain Tom Pinardo, Captain Pierre Frenay and I. We also carried 5 very experienced Flight Attendants. They were Debbie Percell, Susanne Hendricks, Jean Tang, Cynthia Iverson, and Beverly Haines. Our 2 onboard mechanics were Peter Lum and Julius Aguilo. Our load planner was Mike Torres.
At about 9:30 PM we received a call asking that we arrive in China no earlier than 6:00 AM, just about sunrise. It was obvious that the entire exchange would be photographed and they wanted daylight conditions. We estimated that a 2:15 AM departure from Guam would put us on the ground in Haikou precisely at 6:00 AM local China time. (2 hours earlier than Guam) Some of us just stayed on the plane, others accepted the company's invitation to come to the Continental President's Club, a local VIP lounge at the airport to try to get some rest. It was difficult to get any rest with our much-anticipated mission so near.
By 1:00 AM the pilots were back in the briefing room going over the weather, flight plan, fuel requirements and everything else that goes into a flight. Again, we loaded up the airplane and finally departed Guam International at precisely 2:15 AM.
The stretcher kits and medical gear were not the only special additions to the airplane. The company had loaded a special file into the navigation database of the flight management computer (FMC). This allowed us to gain access to navigation data needed to operate in this part of China, which is not in our normal route structure. The Repatriation Team carried sophisticated equipment to communicate with the military and government officials that would monitor our progress throughout the flight. The route of flight took us straight west from Guam toward the Philippines along the G467 airway. About half way across we turned north directly toward Hong Kong. This routing was designed to avoid flying through Taiwanese airspace, something that the Chinese could consider offensive.
Approaching the Chinese coastline, we contacted Hong Kong radar control. After establishing radar contact with us, the controller gave us a short cut to expedite his traffic flow. This was bad because it cut off considerable distance and would result in arriving too early. We compensated by slowing our airspeed until the computer again estimated a 6:00 AM arrival. The instant we turned across the short cut, the interphone rang from the back of the plane. They wanted to know why we had deviated from the flight plan. We told them it was due to Hong Kong traffic and that we had adjusted our airspeed. We were still on schedule.
Now we were approaching our destination, Haikou airport on Hainan Island. Captain Pierre Frenay was at the controls. The weather was 2000-ft overcast with 5 miles visibility and light winds out of the east. Pierre made an ILS approach to and landed on runway 9. Haikou airport is much the same as many other airports in the world that serve jet transport aircraft. It has an 11,000-ft runway with standard lighting and navigational facilities. We touched down at 6:07 AM. The first early morning light was beginning to illuminate the sky.
The local air traffic controller instructed us to follow a vehicle that was beside us on an adjacent taxiway. He led us to a remote part of the airport, away from the main terminal buildings. Once we had parked and shut down the engines, we saw many uniformed Chinese military personnel and vehicles. They did not appear to have weapons. Portable stairs were brought up to the airplane and we opened the main cabin door.
The Repatriation Team that we carried had been briefed to close down all of their communications equipment prior to landing and put it away. They were also briefed to remain in their seats in a non-threatening posture in case the Chinese military came aboard. The first and only person to come aboard was an Air China employee. He spoke English and was to act as the translator between our group and the Chinese military. He instructed us to have everyone fill out both arrival and departure documents. He collected all of our passports and left the aircraft. Before he left, he said that only one person at a time would be allowed to deplane.
Peter Lum, one of our mechanics went down to supervise the re-fueling and servicing of the airplane. When that was complete, I went down to do the walk-around inspection. I did this rather slowly because I wanted to have a chance to look around. While I was out on the ramp, a skirmish developed between people who were trying to climb a wall to photograph our aircraft and the Chinese police. Somehow, CNN managed to carry our arrival and departure live.
Once the airplane was serviced and ready to go, we looked anxiously around for any sign of the buses that carried our 24 detainees. Before that could happen however, we had a problem to deal with. A U.S. military General who was on the scene to assist in the transfer came storming up the stairs and demanded to speak with the Captain. Tom Pinardo responded. The General said that the entire mission was now in jeopardy. A document called the general declaration, which is standard on all international flights had listed the destination as Haikou, China R.O.C. The initials ROC stand for Republic of China which is .. Taiwan! The Chinese were very upset over this. Tom quickly crossed out ROC and replaced it with P.R.O.C. the Peoples Republic of China. This seemed to satisfy them.
With the airplane ready to go and the paperwork complete, 2 buses pulled up and the 24 U.S. service men and women saluted as they bolted up the stairs and settled into the back of the plane. When the last one was aboard, our passports were returned to us. The stairs were withdrawn, the cabin door closed, and we started the engines and departed. It was my turn at the controls.
Once airborne heading straight south we broke through the clouds into the bright sunshine. Pierre made a PA announcement that we were over international waters and leaving Chinese airspace. A great cheer rose from the back of the airplane. A short while later we received a telephone patch over the HF radio from Mr. Joseph Prueher, U.S Ambassador to China. He wanted to speak with Lt. Shane Osborne the 26 year old EP-3 Aircraft Commander. Lt. Osborne came to the cockpit and put on a headset. The Ambassador told him that on behalf of the President of the United States and the entire country he wanted to say welcome home . He went on to say how proud he was of everything the crew had done from their airmanship in saving the lives of the crew and aircraft, to their conduct on the ground once they had been detained. They had truly done an excellent job. After his conversation with the Ambassador, Lt. Osborne stayed in the cockpit for quite a while and told us his story pilot to pilot of what had happened during and immediately after the mid-air collision with the F-8 Chinese fighter. The fighter came up under their left wing. This pilot made 2 very close passes previously that day. He apparently misjudged the intercept and his vertical stabilizer struck the outboard left propeller on the EP-3. The U.S. plane was in straight and level flight on autopilot at the time.
The fighter broke into two pieces and plunged into the sea. The U.S. plane rolled to the left almost inverted, the pilot lost control and they began to lose altitude. The Chinese fighter had raked back across the fuselage and knocked off the nose cone causing the aircraft to buffet wildly. When the nose cone departed the aircraft it collided with and damaged the number 4 propeller on the right wing. The collision punctured the pressure vessel and the EP-3 depressurized. The collision also knocked off the pitot tubes eliminating airspeed and altitude indications in the cockpit. It also knocked off the forward bracket for the HF radio antenna. The antenna then flew back and wrapped around the tail.
We were almost upside down and totally out of control Osborne told us. The dive continued and some crew members donned parachutes. At about 8,000 feet, Osborne regained straight and level flight. They considered ditching the aircraft in the South China Sea but dismissed that option because it was certain to result in loss of life. They headed for the nearest land, Hainan Island. The U.S. crew now faced the most difficult landing of their lives. They made numerous mayday, MayDay, MayDay radio calls on internationally recognized emergency frequencies. The Chinese did not respond. Somehow, they managed to get the airplane on the ground.
Their next immediate task was to destroy the sensitive electronic surveillance equipment aboard the EP-3. Meanwhile the Chinese military had approached the aircraft in vehicles and were yelling at them through loudspeakers to deplane. The next 11 days would be a very uncertain time for them.
When we met them, they told us that they had not been abused or mistreated. Their food was adequate and plentiful. Sort of like eating in a Chinese restaurant every day one of them said. On the forth day, they got some coffee. On the fifth day, some cokes were provided. The crew did not know what kind of transport would be provided for their return home. They were pleased and surprised to see a chartered airliner from the United States.
The rest of the flight from Haikou to Anderson AFB on Guam was uneventful. During the 5 hour flight the crew was treated to the movie Men of Honor and enjoyed a first class meal. We did not know it at the time but our landing at Anderson AFB was carried live on national television.
We taxied to the parking ramp at Anderson where many people had turned out to welcome all of us home. Individuals and families with kids, both military and civilian waved American flags and cheered, showing support for the returning U.S. spy plane crew. Once the 24 U.S. crewmembers and the military Repatriation Team had deplaned at Anderson, they immediately boarded waiting buses and were whisked away. The Continental crew then became the object of intense media attention. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, Reuters and various print media interviewed us. A dizzying swirl of attention after a very long day.
We were happy, tired, and pleased that the mission was so successful as Tom flew the last segment, a 10-minute flight back to Guam International Airport. This time our passengers included Bill Meehan, President of Continental Micronesia, Guam Governor Carl Gutierrez, Lieutenant Governor Bordallo and others.
We thought the day was just about over but we had one more surprise in store. After landing, we were given a hero's welcome of our own. The airport fire department was in place to give us the traditional water cannon salute, a rainbow arch of water for us to taxi under. A reception was held at the gate with food, balloons, commemorative plaques, and more media interviews with the local television station. This was very heady stuff. As I look back on this one of a kind operation. It could not have happened without the tremendous effort and skills of many people working behind the scenes. Bill Meehan, Mitch Dubner at the SOCC in Houston, Tom Rinow at the CMI SOCC, Captain Ralph Freeman, CMI Director of Flight Operations, and many others had major rolls in coordinating this flight. It was accomplished through teamwork. The fact that it came off without a hitch is testimony to how well all these people did their jobs. The exposure that Continental Airlines received over this is a marketing manager's dream comes true. We will be remembered by millions of people as the company who conducted the China Rescue Mission . This was a proud day for Continental Airlines and for America.
Guest
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TCS -
Fascinating post on the CAL effort, I certainly applaud both the effort and the chronicling of the mission. I'm certain that every word is accurate. I find the account intriguing for many other reasons.
Despite the urgency and patriotism, 24 hour standby is illegal for safety reasons. Yet from personal experience, I know too well how little the regulations mean. This case is typical. Money first.
Comparably, even on a military charter, admitting passengers to the cockpit is illegal - even on this type of flight. Being a military pilot makes no difference under the FARs.
You may be certain that the FAA will look the other way - as usual.
Please refer your CAL friend to the CS-985 accounts at -
www.webpak.net/~skydream
The matter is still open with a badly battered captain wondering what hit him. I'd be curious as to your friend's reaction.
[This message has been edited by SKYDRIFTER (edited 19 April 2001).]
Fascinating post on the CAL effort, I certainly applaud both the effort and the chronicling of the mission. I'm certain that every word is accurate. I find the account intriguing for many other reasons.
Despite the urgency and patriotism, 24 hour standby is illegal for safety reasons. Yet from personal experience, I know too well how little the regulations mean. This case is typical. Money first.
Comparably, even on a military charter, admitting passengers to the cockpit is illegal - even on this type of flight. Being a military pilot makes no difference under the FARs.
You may be certain that the FAA will look the other way - as usual.
Please refer your CAL friend to the CS-985 accounts at -
www.webpak.net/~skydream
The matter is still open with a badly battered captain wondering what hit him. I'd be curious as to your friend's reaction.
[This message has been edited by SKYDRIFTER (edited 19 April 2001).]
Guest
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Borg32, US British and NATO vessels aircraft installations and other sites of interest are circled buzzed listened into and otherwised observed on a daily basis by other interested parties. The reactions are similar but generaly not carried to the same extremes.
It is the crossing over the line of what is generaly accepted to be acceptable behaviour that causes the furore we have been observing.
Yes, it probably? wasn't completely deliberate, but Wang had been working up to it, pity he screwed up. Or then again maybe he didn't and that why they are calling him a hero and not a prat
It is the crossing over the line of what is generaly accepted to be acceptable behaviour that causes the furore we have been observing.
Yes, it probably? wasn't completely deliberate, but Wang had been working up to it, pity he screwed up. Or then again maybe he didn't and that why they are calling him a hero and not a prat
Guest
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DAMAGE ASSESSMENT -
It's almost strange that the Chinese would cite the damage to the 'flaps.' If the damage had been limited to the leading edge, there would be SOME viability as to the Chinese argument.
The Chinese description of flap damage is the best testimony, yet, that the fighter overtook the EP-3.
The total of the damage attests to the speed of the fighter and that the EP-3 was flying level when the damage took place.
Apparently, the Chinese Air Force is not in the political arena; only someone ignorant of flying would make the claims China does.
The Chinese portrayal and presentations are more of an ignorant embarrassment to China, than a testimonial of alleged wrong-doing.
Maybe they are just buying time to look over the surviving pieces of the EP-3.
It's almost strange that the Chinese would cite the damage to the 'flaps.' If the damage had been limited to the leading edge, there would be SOME viability as to the Chinese argument.
The Chinese description of flap damage is the best testimony, yet, that the fighter overtook the EP-3.
The total of the damage attests to the speed of the fighter and that the EP-3 was flying level when the damage took place.
Apparently, the Chinese Air Force is not in the political arena; only someone ignorant of flying would make the claims China does.
The Chinese portrayal and presentations are more of an ignorant embarrassment to China, than a testimonial of alleged wrong-doing.
Maybe they are just buying time to look over the surviving pieces of the EP-3.
Guest
Posts: n/a
TIMMCCALL -
Different ops specs - guess what?
Getting away with it doesn't make it legal. Naturally, any of us would have done it, but not good to advertise it. I really don't blame them. It's more criminal to keep them locked out - in my book of morality, anyway.
Different ops specs - guess what?
Getting away with it doesn't make it legal. Naturally, any of us would have done it, but not good to advertise it. I really don't blame them. It's more criminal to keep them locked out - in my book of morality, anyway.
Guest
Posts: n/a
NOT OVER YET -
Sounds as though the Chinese are really getting needled. Between the resumption of 'spy' flights, fighter backup, Taiwan counter-invasion exercises and the visa to the USA granted to Lee Teng hui, China is really getting pushed around.
Taiwan = Bosnia = Gulf of Tonkin = Pearl Harbor?
Interesting, though. In his announcement of the EP-3 crew's release, Bush had to refer to his notes to see what country was involved.
It would be like the U.S. to have secretly had Cheney elected as president; makes more sense.
The U.S. has been doing virtual reality without computers for a long time.
Mr. Clancey; did you catch that??? {:-))
Sounds as though the Chinese are really getting needled. Between the resumption of 'spy' flights, fighter backup, Taiwan counter-invasion exercises and the visa to the USA granted to Lee Teng hui, China is really getting pushed around.
Taiwan = Bosnia = Gulf of Tonkin = Pearl Harbor?
Interesting, though. In his announcement of the EP-3 crew's release, Bush had to refer to his notes to see what country was involved.
It would be like the U.S. to have secretly had Cheney elected as president; makes more sense.
The U.S. has been doing virtual reality without computers for a long time.
Mr. Clancey; did you catch that??? {:-))
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hmm don't like Bush eh SkyThingy, I think he and his bunch have handled it pretty well so far. Guys got back, no massive concessions or big climb down, flights continue. Wonder how old Slick Wil would have fared.
Capt Bucher and the Pueblo crew took a wee bit longer to get back I think.
Capt Bucher and the Pueblo crew took a wee bit longer to get back I think.
