Fatigue & journo asking for info
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Fatigue & journo asking for info
“When the 188 passengers boarded the charter plane in Antalya (Turkey) to return to Iceland, on 27 Oct 2007, they did not know that their airplane would experience a serious safety incident – ending up beside the runway of Keflavik airport. Pilot fatigue and inadequate in-flight rest facilities were key factors contributing to this incident – which luckily left all on board unharmed – according to the recently published Incident Report. The report makes several safety recommendations addressed to the EU Institutions. Regrettably, these recommendations are likely to slip off the runway too, when attempting to land on the Brussels Institutions' slippery political ground.”
http://www.eurocockpit.be/media/Kefl...009_0129_F.pdf
http://www.eurocockpit.be/media/Kefl...009_0129_F.pdf
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No effort will be made by JAA. No surprise there.
Euro aviation authorities act in self-interest and on behalf of national authorities, who themselves are about as morally bankrupt as British and Euro MP's.
Fatigue is prevalent amongst pilots and will remain so.
Fatigue is prevalent amongst pilots and will remain so.
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"Dr Perry said pressure to cover up the fatigue problem came from both pilots and airlines: "If many of my colleagues were honest, we ground more people for that problem, but we don't call it that problem."
"Airlines are loathe to admit there is such a problem because that looks bad on them from the company image, and we have had many a company turn round and say that this pilot is malingering, or he has got other problems." Dr Perry says he has recorded fatigue problems as chest infections.
And if the pilot´s "play the game", how will they get better work conditions
How many other things are "covered up"?
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As long as airfare stays low the traveling public do not care 
´cause the odds of anything happening to them are still very low!
Any politician threatening the possibility of traveling for next to nothing will lose his/her seat
Not until we see more fatal accidents will something be done about it, unless we ourselves stop this nonsense! The problem is there is always somebody willing to do anything or accept any t/c´s to be allowed to sit in the pointy end of an aluminium tube and that is dragging the rest of us down the drain!
´cause the odds of anything happening to them are still very low! Any politician threatening the possibility of traveling for next to nothing will lose his/her seat
Not until we see more fatal accidents will something be done about it, unless we ourselves stop this nonsense! The problem is there is always somebody willing to do anything or accept any t/c´s to be allowed to sit in the pointy end of an aluminium tube and that is dragging the rest of us down the drain!
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It takes a terrorist attempt in order to increase (and frustrate) the level of security required these days in airports....
It will take something equally major in order to address the issue of flight crew fatigue.
Aviation is a major subscriber to the notion that the industry learns from its mistakes.
Pilot fatigue is an issue that will be no different.
It will take something equally major in order to address the issue of flight crew fatigue.
Aviation is a major subscriber to the notion that the industry learns from its mistakes.
Pilot fatigue is an issue that will be no different.
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Well the U.S. Press has been reporting this week about the lack of rest for the Cogan crew involved in the tragic BUF crash . If the travelling public is confronted with the facts about crew fatigue and made to feel scared then the FAA and others will have to do something.
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As long as airfare stays low the traveling public do not care
1) It's the airlines that set the fares, not the public. The passengers aren't going to complain about low fares are they.
2) The majority of the public assume that the airlines abide by the regulations and that the regulators know what they are doing................ Even if they are wrong.
One of the problems of course is how do you measure a persons fatigue level? To say that after for example 10hrs a pilot becomes dangerous due to fatigue, doesn't take into account the individual's metabolism or their state of well being on any particular day, after all if you pick up a bug you may well become fatigued a lot sooner than normal but you may not, in the early stages, feel unwell.
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1) It's the airlines that set the fares, not the public. The passengers aren't going to complain about low fares are they.
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do you really believe the airlines decide the fare or is it maybe the market (pax) that decide? I think the latter being that we live in a free market world these days!
I wonder when all the easy and Ryan A/C start falling from the sky
I think one of the major contributors to fatigue in the USA are the long distances pilots commute, often immediately before starting their duty cycle. That too should be controlled!
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do you really believe the airlines decide the fare
The public, of course, want to pay as little as possible for the fare, as I'm sure you do when you buy a new car etc, but in the end if the airline says the ticket price is X then that is what the punter has to pay to get to where he wants to go. Whether or not this leads to a reduction in people flying is debatable.
If the regulators reduced the number of hours a pilot can fly/be on duty then the airlines would have to employ more of them to do the current number of flights, therefore ticket prices would have to go up.
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If the regulators reduced the number of hours a pilot can fly/be on duty then the airlines would have to employ more of them to do the current number of flights, therefore ticket prices would have to go up.
I did not realize that this was so big issue until read it here, i also think that a majority of flyer's would say the same.
would i appreciate a low ticket price if i know the drawbacks? Hell no!
This needs more passenger awareness and better regulations, this is not a "you get what u pay for question"
I would not fly for free even in first class with a overworked crew period, and if this leads to not so many people can fly for the sake of flying and fun b cos it´s rock bottom cheap,,,so be it!!
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(sorry if that sounds patronizing, it's not meant to be)
You describe it perfectly: It´s the market that decides what the airlines can charge for the ticket, otherwise they fly with empty seats and eventually go out of business!
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Hang on a minute!
Well the U.S. Press has been reporting this week about the lack of rest for the Cogan crew involved in the tragic BUF crash . If the travelling public is confronted with the facts about crew fatigue and made to feel scared then the FAA and others will have to do something.
Try to explain fatigue to them, I bet they are fully able to relay this feeling. But the Feds will say, you can always call in fatigued and this is their get-out-of-jail free card! When do you start realising that you're fatigued? Usually, when you start screwing up somehow. The only thing the Feds will do is posing restrictions on commuting which will make QOL for many pilots much worse than it is these days.
Ooops, sorry, it's 15:00 and I am off home ....
Last edited by Squawk7777; 17th May 2009 at 00:26.
It's interesting that when a pilot shows up to work and is found with alcohol in his/her blood, the industry, regulators, press and public go to town and pillory the individual. But fatigue is as dangerous, far more common and more insidious because although the effects are similar, the individual knows when they have had a drink but often doesn't know they are fatigued until they start making mistakes.
But the regulators and companies are quite happy - indeed encourage pilots to fly when fatigued. Personally, I think I would be more on the ball having had a beer than flying with chronic and acute fatigue. How easy is it to be on top of your game when you've been awake for 22 hours. It's usually OK if everything is going well as modern aircraft tend to protect you. But if anything goes wrong, you are very likely to become a statistic - as the Coglan pilots did.
But the regulators and companies are quite happy - indeed encourage pilots to fly when fatigued. Personally, I think I would be more on the ball having had a beer than flying with chronic and acute fatigue. How easy is it to be on top of your game when you've been awake for 22 hours. It's usually OK if everything is going well as modern aircraft tend to protect you. But if anything goes wrong, you are very likely to become a statistic - as the Coglan pilots did.
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It's on the BBC - 2007.
2007...
"81% of pilots surveyed said that fatigue had affected them."
"32 pilots flown whilst unfit."
etc.
BBC NEWS | UK | Pilots raise fears over fatigue
I stopped flying in 2005 thinking I was fatigued - I had actually been poisoned - but that's another subject...
DB
"81% of pilots surveyed said that fatigue had affected them."
"32 pilots flown whilst unfit."
etc.
BBC NEWS | UK | Pilots raise fears over fatigue
I stopped flying in 2005 thinking I was fatigued - I had actually been poisoned - but that's another subject...
DB
Last edited by Dream Buster; 17th May 2009 at 06:39. Reason: Real reason for fatigue
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Dan:
If there was a reliable and cheap scientific test for fatigue, in the same way as they can test blood alcohol level, you can bet there would be legislation to cover it.
If there was a reliable and cheap scientific test for fatigue, in the same way as they can test blood alcohol level, you can bet there would be legislation to cover it.