Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

How was it, United Pilots?

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

How was it, United Pilots?

Old 31st Mar 2001, 16:21
  #1 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Question How was it, United Pilots?

Iīm a colleage from Lufthansa, and we are in the middle of negotiations for a 30% pay raise.

The management is pulling out every strategy to increase public pressure on us pilots!

-Double-page announcements in our national newspapers ("Frankfurter Allgemeine" and "Die Welt", comparable to Harald Tribune or USA today) discrediting us.
-Employee Newspapers, leaflets and so on.

-Cabin Crew, Ground Crew, Technicians... everybody is asking us, if we are crazy.. (no solidarity from this side)

-Wrong or exagerated figures are supplied to the press

We know, what we want (and why). But Iīm surprised how ruthless the management is fighting us..
The management has pulled down the whole thing onto a really unprofessional niveau.

Thanks for some supporting comments..
Old 1st Apr 2001, 06:06
  #2 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Wait until the company pays more to advertise against it's pilots than it paid for the advertising for the flights. They must be using the NWA playbook. (Negotiate through the media).
Old 1st Apr 2001, 12:07
  #3 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Good luck to you all at Luft. I just wish the guys at B.A. had your balls.
Old 1st Apr 2001, 13:55
  #4 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up


Good luck to you all, I hope you get what you want.

Management always play the same old tricks. One minute they put you on a pedestal, extoling your virtues and drawing passengers to fly with the airline, citing the excellent safety record of the pilots, their commitment to customer service etc. So they make big money from our skills. As soon as we dare to wish for a comparable salary to any other professional they shove the bat up our ar*$. It's high tiem these freaks got a taste of the fruits of cheesing us all off for so long....I've said it elsewhere, but I'd love to see them run an airline without any pilots; especially one the size of Lufty.

Have you ever noticed how airlines flount their profits etc in the interest of shareholder value, yet when you want a slice of the profit they've never got any money? This is one of the issues I want to see addressed aggresively when our people go for a pay rise. Tell our management to stick it where the sun doesn't shine, when they say they don't have any money to give us.

Their next trick will be to discredit you to the public. They'll give some sob story about how the nasty, greedy pilots already get paid too much and now they want to plunge the company into doom by increasing your salaries. It's this sort of childish nonsense that earns most of our managers the sort of reputations they so richly deserve. Some how you've just got to ignore the stupidity of the small-minded and concentrate on the issue at hand. Keep it all in perspective and relevant. Who really gives a damn if someone else THINKS you get paid too much. Will your guilt over their feelings get the bills paid....I don't think so.

So, keep going and try to take some comfort that there are other, like-minded people around who support you all the way.



PS:You'll be able to find me at a picket fence near LHR at the end of the year if our lot don't get their act together.
Old 1st Apr 2001, 14:28
  #5 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Charly, itīs all part of the way this game is played.

The numbers that we and the got out of the benchmark-study speak for themselves.
They donīt have any data to substantiate their arguments, so they resort to populistic propaganda.
They want to open up new battlefields that have nothing to do with our conflict, but cost us mental resources, hoping weīll give up the fight soon.
They want us to run around in circles and quarrel amongst ourselves, so that we waste our energy on meaningless "problems"

Itīs an example of: "If you canīt convince them, confuse them."

Stay calm, support each other and we will succeed!
We donīt have to convince all of Germany or journalists - just our management, because they will make the decision.
Old 1st Apr 2001, 17:09
  #6 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

How about ONE union for STAR ALLIANCE. Imagine the pressure we could put on management. United Airlines pilots union could negociate my salary any say of the week....and week-end

At SAS we are are paid 15-20% below Lufthansa, but our unions (we have three national unions) won't dare to be as bold and strong as LH.

Good luck....who cares what the public thinks of your salary. We have responsibilities for people and hardware. Some 21-year old internet guru doesn't...
Old 1st Apr 2001, 20:40
  #7 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

One union wouldn't work for the alliances. Alliances can be shifted and changed at management's whim. The answer is not to depend on the American unions. ALPA, APA, et al have fought VERY hard in the last 30 years to attain what we have now. The unions have been badly bloodied several times by crafty management, but have won some battles too. The contract that you see at UAL (and soon to be at DAL and AAL) is the result of hard work, sacrifice on the part of the membership, and unity from within the union. The Europeans and British unions, IMHO, have been door mats for management. Judging by many of the comments by Euro/UK pilots about the undeserved high pay of US majors and willing acceptance of abusive work practices by Euro/UK pilots, it's hard to see how there is enough unity to be effective against management's professional union busters and lawyers. How can you allow outsourcing of YOUR jobs, the indentured servitude of training bonds, and industry substandard pay. I can't believe that even BALPA, as a supposidly well established union, allows outsourcing, costly ab initio training schemes, etc. That's money out of THEIR POCKETS!! Even when BA management has their way, they can't seem to make money. Unless the union contract forces management to be efficient, they will continue to sluff-off their costly buffonery on the backs of the employees. In the US, you will find the best/most profitable companies have solid union contracts. Maybe the Lufthansa union has finally decided to be bold and set a new tone for respectability of the pilot profession in Europe.

The American's can't do it for you -- it's YOUR FIGHT. It may sound harsh, but you guys need to put up or shut up.

[This message has been edited by Roadtrip (edited 01 April 2001).]
Old 1st Apr 2001, 22:02
  #8 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Well said. I didn't mean you should it for us, but WE should be more aggresive.
Old 1st Apr 2001, 22:38
  #9 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Charly, all I can say to you and your colleagues is that these are the tactics our companies use and the press are only too happy to believe it. How much money does your union spend in advertising with the big news media? All is not lost, however. You are in a fight and the best time to win it is now. Give up for anything less than you want and you will have to fight again, go through the same media onslaught, with a better prepared management. Win now and it is yesterday's news. Maybe all pilot's unions in Europe could do with professional public relations to tell our side of the story. I don't know about you but in BA everytime we gave something up to help the 'company', they spent it on bolstering out headquaters staff, of our widely respected tail-fins. Stick in there, we are all with you.

Old 2nd Apr 2001, 00:54
  #10 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up

We earned it. We deserve it.
I am commanding a $140 million plane. With knowledge, professionalism and enthusiasm.

My family sees me 10 days out of 30. They put up with it because papa is a captain.

But then: Why can`t I afford a decent 1 family home of upper middle class standard within 1 hour of Frankfurt airport? Why do I have to worry about my retirement? Why do I have to beg my scheduler to give me a certain day off?

Did I say I work for the airline of the year? Lufthansa?

We are going to do it. We will get the pay rise. And more then that. Respect.

Old 2nd Apr 2001, 01:27
  #11 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

mrs. strikemama worked in germany under german work rules and represented by a german union. their contract and their contract negotiators were big, mean and iron-clad. maybe you could hire some of the negotiators from the steelworkers' union. those guys looked really mean (and they managed to nearly bring the country to its knees). or maybe those guys from the public employees union, they were REALLY deadly!

welcome to the real word, lufthansa colleagues. hold the line!! it will get a lot tougher before you get what you really deserve from the management of the "airline of the year." the most important thing is to stick together. don't let management find your weakest link and pull you apart.

good luck!!
Old 2nd Apr 2001, 04:09
  #12 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Friends I wish you all the best in your efforts.
There is nothing new that we pilots get the bashing in media from our own employers. Actually this is done to justify the existence of the over grown human-resource department. At one time the airlines world over employed people to keep an account of the pilots/cabin crew's leave and passages. Later on these guys became the managers and call themselves that they run the airlines. Now every time there are negotiations these guys have to justify their own existence. This is the same very reason that this media bashing of pilots takes place before any pay agreement is finalized, this is not only true for the “Airline of the year” but for all the countries.

What the management forgets is that Pilots, these are same very people who made their airline safest, now are being referred to as people with unethical demands, careless lot, improperly educated. One stage the airline start comparing the pilots with the ramp supervisors etc. But the management knows that the public memories are short-lived, nobody in the public or the media questions them when they start boasting about airlines safety records.

This happened in USA and Korea recently and Indian subcontinent sometime back. Poor pilots were asking their rightful wages that let the market forces play the role. In all these countries pilots were the victorious lot. Reason being they were united, did not buckle down to the stupid management pressure, did not allow the cracks to develop in their ranks, embarked upon various agitations over a period of time, authorities intervened, and impasses were broken, the airlines were saved from losing revenue 'cos of the various agitational approaches by the pilots.

Someone mentioned that why not all the STAR ALLIANCE airlines have the common union for workers. Well this can not be true, however this is true only in the sense that all the STAR ALLIANCE partner airlines not only share their pax., but also the management handling union tactics. This is true for all the partners of the ALLIANCE. You should try and read the thread on Singapore Airlines another partner to this unholy ALLIANCE here on PPRUNE forum. It is really an eye opener I mean the airline and pilots relationship right from the way this airline is being run. How pilots are deprived of their rightful demands in this part of the world. I am sure in Europe we people are better off.

Old 2nd Apr 2001, 11:49
  #13 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Roadtrip, youīre right. But of course without your success, we wouldnīt be so determined this year.

Cheers from Germany

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.