Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: No one's home...
The JAL DC-8 happened due to confusion over the command bars.The Capt thought they had captured the G/S when the command bars were in fact in a fixed pitch mode. He later reportedly killed himself due to guilt. The DC-8 was repaired and flew again.
And National also put a 727 into Pensacola Bay due to crew errors.
And National also put a 727 into Pensacola Bay due to crew errors.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: USA
"A source familiar with the situation told CNN the pilot reported a double bird strike, but it was unclear whether that meant birds in both of the engines or two birds in one engine." 
Hey Sully, how many geese did you count?
Outstanding job by the way, all the way around.
Hey Sully, how many geese did you count?
Outstanding job by the way, all the way around.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Chris Yates, an 'aviation expert' interviewed on BBC News just said that an A320 in the take off phase can't get airborne on one engine. So what are all those V1 cuts I've been practicing in the sim?
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Comments about Chris Yates
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:56:21 +0100
From: Lowe, Peter (Osterley) <[email protected]>
To: ____________
Dear Mr.__________ Thank you for your comments about Chris Yates and I’m grateful to hear this opinion of his contribution to the output.
Chris Yates is not the only commentator we use to talk about air industry matters and indeed we used several more experts on the day in question. David Learmount is probably the person we most like to use when he’s available because we agree he is a real expert on the subject.
I agree that expert commentators are only worthwhile if they add to the viewer’s understanding of the issue. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write.
Peter Lowe,
Assistant Editor, Sky News
Subject: Comments about Chris Yates
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:56:21 +0100
From: Lowe, Peter (Osterley) <[email protected]>
To: ____________
Dear Mr.__________ Thank you for your comments about Chris Yates and I’m grateful to hear this opinion of his contribution to the output.
Chris Yates is not the only commentator we use to talk about air industry matters and indeed we used several more experts on the day in question. David Learmount is probably the person we most like to use when he’s available because we agree he is a real expert on the subject.
I agree that expert commentators are only worthwhile if they add to the viewer’s understanding of the issue. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write.
Peter Lowe,
Assistant Editor, Sky News
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Chris Yates - So Called Air Crash Expert Who In Fact Knows Nothing
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:48:59 +0100
From:
Reply-To:
To: [email protected]C: [email protected]
Why is it that after almost every major air crash of a passenger
aircraft your channel only ever seems to interview the unimpressive
Chris Yates who has an appalling inability to present his comments in a
fluid or comprehensible manner and who seems to add very little indeed
to the viewer's understanding of what has happened.
Clearly Mr Yates always makes himself available to you at a moment's
notice but surely there must be plenty of other people with greater
knowledge of commercial aircraft (for instance David Learmount) and more
impressive presentational skills that you could also interview or
interview instead of My Yates?
I look forward to your comments.
Regards,
Subject: Chris Yates - So Called Air Crash Expert Who In Fact Knows Nothing
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:48:59 +0100
From:
Reply-To:
To: [email protected]C: [email protected]
Why is it that after almost every major air crash of a passenger
aircraft your channel only ever seems to interview the unimpressive
Chris Yates who has an appalling inability to present his comments in a
fluid or comprehensible manner and who seems to add very little indeed
to the viewer's understanding of what has happened.
Clearly Mr Yates always makes himself available to you at a moment's
notice but surely there must be plenty of other people with greater
knowledge of commercial aircraft (for instance David Learmount) and more
impressive presentational skills that you could also interview or
interview instead of My Yates?
I look forward to your comments.
Regards,
Joined: Apr 2008
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: UK
Doesn't that Washington Post photo strengthen the earlier notion of one of the engines detaching during the ditch?
I'm struggling to imagine that A/C floating with the weight of 2 engines and open doors. With the angle she is sitting in the water my logic tells me that possibly the Port engine is detached. That would explain the Starboard down attitude with the Port wing in the air to counteract the engine weight on the Starboard wing.
Surely with both on or both off she would float level assuming equal lateral buoyancy.
I'm struggling to imagine that A/C floating with the weight of 2 engines and open doors. With the angle she is sitting in the water my logic tells me that possibly the Port engine is detached. That would explain the Starboard down attitude with the Port wing in the air to counteract the engine weight on the Starboard wing.
Surely with both on or both off she would float level assuming equal lateral buoyancy.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Norway
I believe pilot of N461SA (from the passur monitor in the link in previous post) got quite a suprise on his way VFR up Hudson river at 1000'. He breaks quite hard right when the bus passes 500 feet above him 
Guess he has a story to tell when he lands
I'm full of respect and pride of seeing how professional aviators can preform.
Just hope the airline know to recognize this as well!
Edit: anyone know the class of airspace, low level along the river?
Guess he has a story to tell when he lands
I'm full of respect and pride of seeing how professional aviators can preform.
Just hope the airline know to recognize this as well!
Edit: anyone know the class of airspace, low level along the river?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 694
Likes: 1
From: US/EU
Interesting web page on the Tuninter ATR-72 ditching on 06 Aug 2005, apparently by another pilot who knows the co-pilot from that flight. Includes a a copy of the last five minutes from the CVR (in Italian) and a translated transcript:
Tunisianbelle - Tuninter ATR-72 Crash on 06 Aug 2005
Tunisianbelle - Tuninter ATR-72 Crash on 06 Aug 2005
Aviator Extraordinaire
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 3
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
And National also put a 727 into Pensacola Bay due to crew errors.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 694
Likes: 1
From: US/EU
And here's the story on the JAL DC-8-62 that landed in the water short of the runway at SFO in 1968:
The DC-8 that was too young to die! | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The DC-8 that was too young to die! | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just another number
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 0
From: UK
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Warrington, UK
I like the first part of his ratings listing:-
"Rated: Airline Transport Pilot; Airplane Single and Multi-Engine Land; Commercial Privileges Glider; A320, B737, DC-9/MD-80, Learjet. 19,000 hours. "
Glider!
You really couldn't make it up, could you?
Great job all round, of course.
Jiffers
"Rated: Airline Transport Pilot; Airplane Single and Multi-Engine Land; Commercial Privileges Glider; A320, B737, DC-9/MD-80, Learjet. 19,000 hours. "
Glider!
You really couldn't make it up, could you?
Great job all round, of course.
Jiffers
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 287
Likes: 7
From: Exit stage right.
Some has already posted details on Captain but this has more detail including his USAF career.
The Hero Of Flight 1549 - January 15, 2009
Some time you just get lucky and have all the ducks lined up in your favour, thankfully Captain didn't decide he wanted a day off.
A bit like what happen on UA232
United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Hero Of Flight 1549 - January 15, 2009
Some time you just get lucky and have all the ducks lined up in your favour, thankfully Captain didn't decide he wanted a day off.
A bit like what happen on UA232
United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
From: LONDON
Great Work!
I dont usually want to comment until the facts are known but one clear fact is that an amazing landing that was made on to water, so I withold nothing in praising the F/D and crew in what appears to be a miraculous occurance and their professionalism that has led to this outcome.
I am hoping that this will provide the NTSB and all aviation manufacturers with enough information about how the landing was performed and why the aircraft did not break up that saftey can be improved in situations where a water landing is necessary and aircraft design to facilitate this. Hopefully alot of stress indications and measurements can still be performed on the intact airframe along with the digital information from the flight recorders.
This could hopefully be one of the incidents that we could learn alot from without having the cost of loss of life.
*slf - not qualified pilot
I am hoping that this will provide the NTSB and all aviation manufacturers with enough information about how the landing was performed and why the aircraft did not break up that saftey can be improved in situations where a water landing is necessary and aircraft design to facilitate this. Hopefully alot of stress indications and measurements can still be performed on the intact airframe along with the digital information from the flight recorders.
This could hopefully be one of the incidents that we could learn alot from without having the cost of loss of life.
*slf - not qualified pilot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 51
From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
As a long-retired A320 driver, would love to read all these pages, but have a bitch in whelp. So just a few thoughts.
Is this successful ditching unprecedented for a large jet with wing-pylon-mounted engines? Ironic it should be so soon after the Perpignan (sea) accident.
Assuming double-engine failure, an attempt to start the APU would be a win-only policy, and I guess there would have been time. This would have secured decent hydraulics for the slats/flaps, and full FBW in Normal Law. So the aeroplane could have been taken to a very high alpha once it had been flared near the water. However, I can't remember the recommended ditching pitch-angle (deck angle). It may be only about 7 - 10 degrees.
Did some of the pax evacuate without their life jackets? If so, it underlines the lack of interest of so many in the briefing and flight-safety cards. I guess the first evacuees could have been out of their over-wing exits unmonitored by the cabin crew? A320 has inflating dual-lane overwing slides, as the gear is taller than the B737. There is, however, a way of de-activating them if required, before you open the window. Not something an ordinary passenger would know about, and there were only 3 flight attendants, I hear. Don't see the wing slides in the photos.
The same BBC-TV aviation pundit that someone quotes above also opined that the aircraft needs BOTH engines operating to climb after take-off... Where do they get these people?
Why did the boat (rescue) crew lift one wing out of the water, and did they think and manage to close the forward door on the other side before doing so?
The A320 is a fairly tough aeroplane, apparently. Wing pylons on all types are designed to fail on ditching, without damaging the wing structure.
Forgive me if I'm repeating previously-posted comments.
Regards, Chris
Is this successful ditching unprecedented for a large jet with wing-pylon-mounted engines? Ironic it should be so soon after the Perpignan (sea) accident.
Assuming double-engine failure, an attempt to start the APU would be a win-only policy, and I guess there would have been time. This would have secured decent hydraulics for the slats/flaps, and full FBW in Normal Law. So the aeroplane could have been taken to a very high alpha once it had been flared near the water. However, I can't remember the recommended ditching pitch-angle (deck angle). It may be only about 7 - 10 degrees.
Did some of the pax evacuate without their life jackets? If so, it underlines the lack of interest of so many in the briefing and flight-safety cards. I guess the first evacuees could have been out of their over-wing exits unmonitored by the cabin crew? A320 has inflating dual-lane overwing slides, as the gear is taller than the B737. There is, however, a way of de-activating them if required, before you open the window. Not something an ordinary passenger would know about, and there were only 3 flight attendants, I hear. Don't see the wing slides in the photos.
The same BBC-TV aviation pundit that someone quotes above also opined that the aircraft needs BOTH engines operating to climb after take-off... Where do they get these people?
Why did the boat (rescue) crew lift one wing out of the water, and did they think and manage to close the forward door on the other side before doing so?
The A320 is a fairly tough aeroplane, apparently. Wing pylons on all types are designed to fail on ditching, without damaging the wing structure.
Forgive me if I'm repeating previously-posted comments.
Regards, Chris
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Perth
"Does anyone else besides me consider that maybe this crew screwed up? Maybe they actually shut down the good engine during a severe damage engine shutdown while attempting to return to the airport."
Regardless of that it would seem the pilot and crew did a remarkable job actually avoiding loss of life.
Whether he was causal to the event in any way will come out in the NTSB investigation. But it wouldn't be the first time that a pilot has seemed like a hero only to then have been found to been causal to the event or have made mistakes in subsequent flight operation, making the event worse than it should have been.
Regardless of that it would seem the pilot and crew did a remarkable job actually avoiding loss of life.
Whether he was causal to the event in any way will come out in the NTSB investigation. But it wouldn't be the first time that a pilot has seemed like a hero only to then have been found to been causal to the event or have made mistakes in subsequent flight operation, making the event worse than it should have been.
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 3,984
Likes: 568
From: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Remember the FO who glided the stricken B777 into LHR ? At first he was labelled a hero and even the Captain was quick to shovel his bit on the FO - until the CAA picks a fault and now the poor FO is no longer at BA
GF
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: In the mirror
