Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,766
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From: Here and there
This is the second serious bird related incident in the last couple of months world wide.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...-ciampino.html
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...-ciampino.html
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 22
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From: Ct. USA
I jumped to page 9- skipped the BS Great job by the crew.
So much to learn from this.
LGA is a piece of work
I've got 40 years flying out of there and I can appreciate what the crew has accomplished.
Great job.
So much to learn from this.
LGA is a piece of work
I've got 40 years flying out of there and I can appreciate what the crew has accomplished.
Great job.
I call you back
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 355
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From: Alpha quadrant
I hate to be a party pooper, BUT..... I can't help but wonder how it is that BOTH engines were so badly damaged by bird ingestion that they could not continue to fly. I don't believe this has ever happened before. Has it?
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,606
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From: UK
Does anyone else besides me consider that maybe this crew screwed up? Maybe they actually shut down the good engine during a severe damage engine shutdown while attempting to return to the airport.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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From: Ireland
Does anyone else besides me consider that maybe this crew screwed up? Maybe they actually shut down the good engine during a severe damage engine shutdown while attempting to return to the airport.
An American Girl
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Inverted in NYC
"The pictures show a pretty smooth water surface, this must have helped matters..."
Writing as a New Yorker with extensive experience both on (boats) and in (scuba) the waters of the Hudson, let me say this:
The Hudson is a tidal river that even during periods of slack water exhibits numerous conflicting currents both at the surface and sub-surface. This also leads to complex thermoclines not dissimilar to thermal air mixing (turbulence). It's not placid.
Because of the deceptive scale of the aircraft and surrounding boats on the river, let me assure you the surface wasn't smooth, and it's a sure thing surface currents were at 8-10 kts and possibly conflicting.
ADDED: I live on the shore of the Hudson River at the very northern border of NYC, approximately seven miles north from the water-landing site. The Hudson is a seasonal flyway for Canadian geese, and we see large flocks of them, sometimes hundreds in widely spaced V-formations ~ transiting the river at this time of year.
Writing as a New Yorker with extensive experience both on (boats) and in (scuba) the waters of the Hudson, let me say this:
The Hudson is a tidal river that even during periods of slack water exhibits numerous conflicting currents both at the surface and sub-surface. This also leads to complex thermoclines not dissimilar to thermal air mixing (turbulence). It's not placid.
Because of the deceptive scale of the aircraft and surrounding boats on the river, let me assure you the surface wasn't smooth, and it's a sure thing surface currents were at 8-10 kts and possibly conflicting.
ADDED: I live on the shore of the Hudson River at the very northern border of NYC, approximately seven miles north from the water-landing site. The Hudson is a seasonal flyway for Canadian geese, and we see large flocks of them, sometimes hundreds in widely spaced V-formations ~ transiting the river at this time of year.
Last edited by AcroChik; 15th January 2009 at 21:51.
Aviator Extraordinaire
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 3
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
I hate to be a party pooper, BUT..... I can't help but wonder how it is that BOTH engines were so badly damaged by bird ingestion that they could not continue to fly. I don't believe this has ever happened before. Has it?
ASN Aircraft accident Boeing E-3A (707) 77-0354 Anchorage-Elmendorf AFB, AK (EDF)
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Portugal
Hi
Lets start the rumours
This remind my last training session... multiple birdstrikes result...
ENG1 FAIL, ENG2 FIRE.
ECAM gives priority to ENG FIRE.
Cheers
PS: DEFIE you're not alone
PS2: Congrats to the all crew, boats and pax (they look like they behaved well)
Lets start the rumours
This remind my last training session... multiple birdstrikes result...
ENG1 FAIL, ENG2 FIRE.
ECAM gives priority to ENG FIRE.
Cheers
PS: DEFIE you're not alone
PS2: Congrats to the all crew, boats and pax (they look like they behaved well)
Last edited by karroo; 15th January 2009 at 21:59.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 372
Likes: 7
From: Surrey
Congratulations to all concerned.
To have remained that intact, the aircraft must have water-ski'd to a slow speed on the underside of the engine nacelles and the rear fuselage.
So congratulations to the designer of the Airbus 320 engine pylons, too!
To have remained that intact, the aircraft must have water-ski'd to a slow speed on the underside of the engine nacelles and the rear fuselage.
So congratulations to the designer of the Airbus 320 engine pylons, too!
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 3,984
Likes: 568
From: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Does anyone else besides me consider that maybe this crew screwed up? Maybe they actually shut down the good engine during a severe damage engine shutdown while attempting to return to the airport.
GF
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 308
Likes: 1
From: Australia.
I hate to be a party pooper, BUT..... I can't help but wonder how it is that BOTH engines were so badly damaged by bird ingestion that they could not continue to fly.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 166
From: South West
Chris Yates, an 'aviation expert' interviewed on BBC News just said that an A320 in the take off phase can't get airborne on one engine. So what are all those V1 cuts I've been practicing in the sim?
Loved the passenger they interviewed:
"What was the landing like?"
"Scary as !!!!!"
Loved the passenger they interviewed:
"What was the landing like?"
"Scary as !!!!!"
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,315
Likes: 10
From: France
My personal reaction...
I hope the entire "scenario" can and will be recorded in the utmost detail by the NTSB and everybody else involved.
What I mean: this was a real ditching, and it seems everybody did survive.
It may not happen again in the next ten years, but if anything can be learned from this one that can save lives in the next one... yes, please !
Oh, and yes, I do listen to the safety briefing each time, but I still would appreciate enormously, sometime during the flight, to be able to pull out a life jacket and find out myself how to put it on. Somehow there is no substitute to "hands-on" experience, in the literal sense.
CJ
I hope the entire "scenario" can and will be recorded in the utmost detail by the NTSB and everybody else involved.
What I mean: this was a real ditching, and it seems everybody did survive.
It may not happen again in the next ten years, but if anything can be learned from this one that can save lives in the next one... yes, please !
Oh, and yes, I do listen to the safety briefing each time, but I still would appreciate enormously, sometime during the flight, to be able to pull out a life jacket and find out myself how to put it on. Somehow there is no substitute to "hands-on" experience, in the literal sense.
CJ
Last edited by ChristiaanJ; 15th January 2009 at 22:52. Reason: typo
I call you back
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
From: Alpha quadrant
Does anyone else besides me consider that maybe this crew screwed up? Maybe they actually shut down the good engine during a severe damage engine shutdown while attempting to return to the airport.
1. That engine was shut down at idle power, this one would have had probably at least 70% of power ( more likely over 90%) so the crew would had noticed the power loss instantly and would most likely have had time to re-start it.
2. Passengers and CCMs on the BMI reported immediately that there was confusion in the cabin about which engine was damaged.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 287
Likes: 7
From: Exit stage right.
Kudos to the Crew great landing.
Good news as well is that with the data recovered plus the testimony of the pilots it will mean that many many pilots in the next year will run this one through the SIMs and realise what is possible.
They may have been lucky but guess the more he trains the luckier he gets. Theory is great but realising it works is even better.
Somehow I don't think Captain and FO will need to buy any drinks in airline or non airline company for a long long time.
Good news as well is that with the data recovered plus the testimony of the pilots it will mean that many many pilots in the next year will run this one through the SIMs and realise what is possible.
They may have been lucky but guess the more he trains the luckier he gets. Theory is great but realising it works is even better.
Somehow I don't think Captain and FO will need to buy any drinks in airline or non airline company for a long long time.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: following the yellow brick road
As an Engineer I take off my hat to the entire crew, not just a job well done but a job perfectly done,
Crew did what they had to do, aircraft design did what it was supposed to do = happy ending
I'm rather enjoying the CNN coverage from Wolf Blitzer it's obviously milder than what those of you with access to Fox are listening to,
Kudos
Crew did what they had to do, aircraft design did what it was supposed to do = happy ending
I'm rather enjoying the CNN coverage from Wolf Blitzer it's obviously milder than what those of you with access to Fox are listening to,
Kudos
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 166
From: South West
ChristiaanJ - with regard to trying on a life jacket for real, have a quiet word with the cabin crew when they're not busy - no reason they can't let you try on the demo one after everyone else has got off. They differ slightly between aircraft type - some you tie the tapes, some have a clip, but you'll get the idea.