Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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idiot
Bondgirl --- definitely a joke/satire
--- like AFM says
the worst is that Sully conspired with those geese and staged that ditching so that he could get the royal treatment And drag poor Jeff down wit'im
Dat Bum
PA
--- like AFM saysthe worst is that Sully conspired with those geese and staged that ditching so that he could get the royal treatment And drag poor Jeff down wit'im
Dat Bum
PA
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Originally Posted by rcallahan
But, I've heard that one engine was at 35% N1 all the way to the water. The crew did not select TOGA
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Originally Posted by rcallahan
It depends on what speed he selected, ie. "green dot"
Selecting a specific speed when in the climb mode only affects the speed you want to use for your climb. The target EPR remains the same : climb thrust !
Do you have more data than we have ?
It takes more than a mere speed selection to command the engines towards idle thrust.
What I notice is that one month after the event, the US1549 crew still did not have a chance to have a look at the data, their data from what happened on their own desk ...
Second Law
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Steering a 320
Starbear sir,
Excellent pic well done, very clear.
But ........ I thought that most aircraft rear steered most of the time!
I know, off thread, I'll go now, sorry all.
CW
Excellent pic well done, very clear.
But ........ I thought that most aircraft rear steered most of the time!
I know, off thread, I'll go now, sorry all.
CW
Last edited by chris weston; 9th Mar 2009 at 21:12.
CONF iture
What is this about? Are you talking about Sully having a peek into the investigation?
I'm sure that he will be interviewed publicly at the hearing and before that be given access to the various reports (FDR, CVR, Engines, ATC, etc.)
What I notice is that one month after the event, the US1549 crew still did not have a chance to have a look at the data, their data from what happened on their own desk ...
What is this about? Are you talking about Sully having a peek into the investigation?
I'm sure that he will be interviewed publicly at the hearing and before that be given access to the various reports (FDR, CVR, Engines, ATC, etc.)
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If, during the climb, (with the throttles in the climb detent)the pilot selects a slower speed ie. green dot, then the engines will go to idle until the selected speed is reached. If that selected speed is never reached, the engine power will remain at idle until splash down. EPR or N1 has nothing to do with the engine speed in the "climb detent"
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If, during the climb, (with the throttles in the climb detent)the pilot selects a slower speed ie. green dot, then the engines will go to idle until the selected speed is reached. If that selected speed is never reached, the engine power will remain at idle until splash down. EPR or N1 has nothing to do with the engine speed in the "climb detent"
In the same time I find it odd you keep mentioning that point :
Are you pretending at least one of the engines was involuntary kept to idle by the crew but would have been perfectly able, maybe, to deliver full thrust ???
Where are your data please ?
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On any Boeing if a controller asks you to increase your climb rate for traffic you simply select a lower climb speed. I do not believe the Airbus A320 would go to idle power.
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First, let me start at the firewall. That detent is TOGA. It is FIXED thrust. It's all the engine can deliver. Period.
Second, if you pull the thrust levers back to the next detent, you will be in the FLEX/MCT detent. The way this detent works is as follows: If, before takeoff, an ASSUMED temperature is entered in the FLEX prompt of the PERF page, the thrust levers will deliver a reduced takeoff thrust that will be at least EQUAL, but never LESS than climb thrust. The fadec takes into account the OAT when it AUTOMATICALLY adusts EPR or N1 (depending on the mode of the IAE engine or if you happen to have the CFM engine) because it has an AIR DATA input through the ADR. Now, if you have performed a takeoff, and you move the thrust levers to any other detent and then move them back to the FLEX/MCT detent, the fadec will command, and you will get MCT and nothing else because it is a FIXED thrust. If you are using the MCT for some reason, and you select a faster or slower speed while climbing, the elevator will pitch the airplane to make good that speed. If you are in level flight, the airplane will keep accelerating and selecting a speed will have no effect. Thrust is FIXED. Period.
Third, the climb detent. The climb detent is where you put the thrust levers when you transition to the climb phase immediately after 1000 feet AGL or whatever altitude you decide your transition to be (i.e. 1500 AGL for noise abatement). Once the thrust levers are placed in this detent, the AUTOTHRUST will command thrust anywhere from IDLE, to MAX CLIMB thrust depending on what speed you select on the FCU if you are using selected navigation (i.e. using the knobs on the FCU to select HDG and SPEED and ALTITUDE). It will use the same range from IDLE to MAX CLIMB if using the FMGC to MANAGE the airplane in CLIMB, CRUISE, DESCENT, and APPROACH phase of flight. So, if you are in LEVEL FLIGHT with the autopilot engaged or are hand flying, and you are going 250 knots and you select 200 knots let's say, then the autothrust will command IDLE until you reach 200 knots and then it will increase thrust to maintain 200 knots. If you are going 200 knots and select 250 knots, the autothrust will command MAX CLIMB thrust until reaching 250 knots and then back off to the point that it needs to in order to maintain 250 knots. Now, if you are descending and you have 200 knots SELECTED, yet you are hand flying and the speed is FASTER than what is SELECTED, the autothrust is going to command IDLE. Under this circumstance, if one were to select MCT or TOGA, the thrust would immediately go to that value and would be an excellent indication of whether the engine was A) RUNNING and B) whether it would be capable of producing more than IDLE. Unfortunately, going to a fixed thrust detent in order to assess whether the engine is running or not isn't anywhere in the Engine Dual Failure QRH checklist.
Second, if you pull the thrust levers back to the next detent, you will be in the FLEX/MCT detent. The way this detent works is as follows: If, before takeoff, an ASSUMED temperature is entered in the FLEX prompt of the PERF page, the thrust levers will deliver a reduced takeoff thrust that will be at least EQUAL, but never LESS than climb thrust. The fadec takes into account the OAT when it AUTOMATICALLY adusts EPR or N1 (depending on the mode of the IAE engine or if you happen to have the CFM engine) because it has an AIR DATA input through the ADR. Now, if you have performed a takeoff, and you move the thrust levers to any other detent and then move them back to the FLEX/MCT detent, the fadec will command, and you will get MCT and nothing else because it is a FIXED thrust. If you are using the MCT for some reason, and you select a faster or slower speed while climbing, the elevator will pitch the airplane to make good that speed. If you are in level flight, the airplane will keep accelerating and selecting a speed will have no effect. Thrust is FIXED. Period.
Third, the climb detent. The climb detent is where you put the thrust levers when you transition to the climb phase immediately after 1000 feet AGL or whatever altitude you decide your transition to be (i.e. 1500 AGL for noise abatement). Once the thrust levers are placed in this detent, the AUTOTHRUST will command thrust anywhere from IDLE, to MAX CLIMB thrust depending on what speed you select on the FCU if you are using selected navigation (i.e. using the knobs on the FCU to select HDG and SPEED and ALTITUDE). It will use the same range from IDLE to MAX CLIMB if using the FMGC to MANAGE the airplane in CLIMB, CRUISE, DESCENT, and APPROACH phase of flight. So, if you are in LEVEL FLIGHT with the autopilot engaged or are hand flying, and you are going 250 knots and you select 200 knots let's say, then the autothrust will command IDLE until you reach 200 knots and then it will increase thrust to maintain 200 knots. If you are going 200 knots and select 250 knots, the autothrust will command MAX CLIMB thrust until reaching 250 knots and then back off to the point that it needs to in order to maintain 250 knots. Now, if you are descending and you have 200 knots SELECTED, yet you are hand flying and the speed is FASTER than what is SELECTED, the autothrust is going to command IDLE. Under this circumstance, if one were to select MCT or TOGA, the thrust would immediately go to that value and would be an excellent indication of whether the engine was A) RUNNING and B) whether it would be capable of producing more than IDLE. Unfortunately, going to a fixed thrust detent in order to assess whether the engine is running or not isn't anywhere in the Engine Dual Failure QRH checklist.
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Once the thrust levers are placed in this detent, the AUTOTHRUST will command thrust anywhere from IDLE, to MAX CLIMB thrust depending on what speed you select on the FCU
Whatever speed is selected at this time will not interfere in any way on the A/THR status which will still maintain THR CLB.
Selecting a different speed will only modify the pitch attitude.
Do you understand the A/THR is NOT in SPEED mode ?
Rcallahan, up to now you wrote only 5 posts on PPRuNe, but and all of them on that specific issue … you must have additional information we are not aware of ?
After the initial thrust reduction due to bird strikes, there are possibilities for the A/THR to command THR IDLE … but that would require additional action(s) from the crew …
Up to now, none such action(s) have been made avail to the public ... but I'm ready to hear ... ?
After the initial thrust reduction due to bird strikes, there are possibilities for the A/THR to command THR IDLE … but that would require additional action(s) from the crew …
Up to now, none such action(s) have been made avail to the public ... but I'm ready to hear ... ?
Up to now, none such action(s) have been made avail to the public ... but I'm ready to hear ... ?
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I don't know any autothrottle system that will not go to idle if you command a slower speed. The Boeing operates the same as the Airbus in that respect. Also, if you turn the autothrust off on the Airbus you can see engine response. If I have a suspected engine problem on both engines I sure a heck am going to move the thrust levers around to see if I get something. I would definitely go to TOGA.
Just remember, Sully was flying the jet, talking on the radio, turning on the APU. The F/O had 35 hours on type and was fumbling with the QRH.
Just remember, Sully was flying the jet, talking on the radio, turning on the APU. The F/O had 35 hours on type and was fumbling with the QRH.
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Raise your hand if you think the crew tried to see if they could get any power out of the engines.
Given the fact that there was substantial damage to the core engine, I seriously doubt they could have gotten much thrust out of the engines. The airflow through the engine would have been very unstable and probably could not have supported high thrust settings.
Having at least one engine at 35% N1 was beneficial in that he had hydraulics and electrics.
Given the fact that there was substantial damage to the core engine, I seriously doubt they could have gotten much thrust out of the engines. The airflow through the engine would have been very unstable and probably could not have supported high thrust settings.
Having at least one engine at 35% N1 was beneficial in that he had hydraulics and electrics.