Armavia A320 turbulence at cruise, A380 wake
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Iolar got it correct. 3 minutes separation between 380 and medium during landing and take off. Find it in the AERED ( it only mentions T/O )
During cruising is something completely different. It is hard to tell when and where the wake will hit , but have in mind that with RVSM levels and with no lateral wind blowing most certainly you might hit the wake.
Last but not least , the phenomena is much more severe during cruise due to the fact of speed. 160 knots are not the same as M.84
During cruising is something completely different. It is hard to tell when and where the wake will hit , but have in mind that with RVSM levels and with no lateral wind blowing most certainly you might hit the wake.
Last but not least , the phenomena is much more severe during cruise due to the fact of speed. 160 knots are not the same as M.84
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On a side note, there's an interesting article in the latest edition of the Eurocontrol Experimental Center Newsletter from autumn 2008. The article concerns a redefinition of the Heavy, Medium and Light categories (RECAT). As far as I understand the idea is that presently those aircraft on the boundaries of the present categories could be included in new categories (by subdividing the existing ones) relaxing separation requirements and increasing capacity.
EUROCONTROL - Revising wake turbulence categories to gain capacity (RECAT)
EUROCONTROL - Revising wake turbulence categories to gain capacity (RECAT)
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About 6 weeks ago one of our company Saabs lost control on final approach into Sydney on Rwy34R. It landed okay without a G/A required.....great piloting.
On simultaneous final was an A380 and there was a strong westerly, which carried most of the wake into the path of the Saab.
Studies are now furiously being undertaken by the ATSB and during the interim, its really "buyers beware", every man for himself. Stay above the glidepath if possible and manage your own wake separation. Sydney ATC have also been really helpful.
We get 3 x A380s almost daily in Sydney, and at this stage, everybody is quite aware of the pitfalls of ignorance.....
On simultaneous final was an A380 and there was a strong westerly, which carried most of the wake into the path of the Saab.
Studies are now furiously being undertaken by the ATSB and during the interim, its really "buyers beware", every man for himself. Stay above the glidepath if possible and manage your own wake separation. Sydney ATC have also been really helpful.
We get 3 x A380s almost daily in Sydney, and at this stage, everybody is quite aware of the pitfalls of ignorance.....
3 parallel runways over densely populated areas, and a heady mixture of aircraft of all sizes. Folks on here will no doubt point out the differences between LHY and SYD, but to the lay gutter hack it's far more black and white - Heathrow, in their eyes, will be an accident waiting to happen.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Last but not least , the phenomena is much more severe during cruise due to the fact of speed. 160 knots are not the same as M.84
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...7/aim0703.html
7-3-3. Vortex Strength
a. The strength of the vortex is governed by the weight, speed, and shape of the wing of the generating aircraft. The vortex characteristics of any given aircraft can also be changed by extension of flaps or other wing configuring devices as well as by change in speed. However, as the basic factor is weight, the vortex strength increases proportionately. Peak vortex tangential speeds exceeding 300 feet per second have been recorded. The greatest vortex strength occurs when the generating aircraft is HEAVY, CLEAN, and SLOW.
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turbulence
Hi!
Actually this incident happaned in my airspace and investigation is still in progress. What can I say at this stage, is that there were no reports from the pilot of armavia of any turbulence. It's some kind of strange when he said about that when he landed in armenia.
I'll brief you more as soon as I get more info
Actually this incident happaned in my airspace and investigation is still in progress. What can I say at this stage, is that there were no reports from the pilot of armavia of any turbulence. It's some kind of strange when he said about that when he landed in armenia.
I'll brief you more as soon as I get more info
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lomapaseo
Induced drag and its wing tip vortices are a created as a wing produces lift. The Coefficient of Lift increases as the Angle of Attack is increased.
Induced drag is inversely proportional to the square of the speed whereas all other drag is directly proportional to the square of the speed.
The effect of this is that induced drag is relatively unimportant at high speed in the cruise and descent where it probably represents less than 10% of total drag.
At low speeds, just after take off, in the initial climb and the final approach it can produce up to 70% of the total drag.
Induced drag and its wing tip vortices are a created as a wing produces lift. The Coefficient of Lift increases as the Angle of Attack is increased.
Induced drag is inversely proportional to the square of the speed whereas all other drag is directly proportional to the square of the speed.
The effect of this is that induced drag is relatively unimportant at high speed in the cruise and descent where it probably represents less than 10% of total drag.
At low speeds, just after take off, in the initial climb and the final approach it can produce up to 70% of the total drag.
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Hi folks
The same occurrence experienced on B732 almost one year ago, (night flying, clear sky, winter time, daytime warming over the mountains, in my case) makes me to believe that it’s just something that concerns to the weather phenomenon over the flying route rather than A380 related incidence like, but who knows…it’s enormous not to make a sever turbulence pilot report in the air, what ever the case. 100% agree with India 42 post.
The same occurrence experienced on B732 almost one year ago, (night flying, clear sky, winter time, daytime warming over the mountains, in my case) makes me to believe that it’s just something that concerns to the weather phenomenon over the flying route rather than A380 related incidence like, but who knows…it’s enormous not to make a sever turbulence pilot report in the air, what ever the case. 100% agree with India 42 post.
Last edited by Awl flyer; 14th Jan 2009 at 23:49.
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About 6 weeks ago one of our company Saabs lost control on final approach into Sydney on Rwy34R. It landed okay without a G/A required.....great piloting.
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Question to all the boffins and lift experts:
Surely the A380 wake characteristics are cause by the cord and camber of the wing and not by any significant increase in wingtip generated vortex? Begging the question; were promotional videos made by Airbus suggesting that the fitting of wingtip 'fences' to reduce the aircrafts wake turbulence signature just a red herring when all along they knew that the cord and camber of the wing generated wake turbulence characteristices quite unlike anything we'd seen before?
Viewed from behind it is clearly evident that the cord and camber of the wings is significantly different from any other commercial aircraft flying at the moment.
Surely the A380 wake characteristics are cause by the cord and camber of the wing and not by any significant increase in wingtip generated vortex? Begging the question; were promotional videos made by Airbus suggesting that the fitting of wingtip 'fences' to reduce the aircrafts wake turbulence signature just a red herring when all along they knew that the cord and camber of the wing generated wake turbulence characteristices quite unlike anything we'd seen before?
Viewed from behind it is clearly evident that the cord and camber of the wings is significantly different from any other commercial aircraft flying at the moment.
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Quote:
Significantly wind speed and direction will play its part. Consider for example an A380 on short finals with severe windshear to contend with too. Furthermore consider the vortex created if the aircraft encounters significant CAT. Does anybody have any data on these two scenarios for the 380?
7-3-3. Vortex Strength
a. The strength of the vortex is governed by the weight, speed, and shape of the wing of the generating aircraft. The vortex characteristics of any given aircraft can also be changed by extension of flaps or other wing configuring devices as well as by change in speed. However, as the basic factor is weight, the vortex strength increases proportionately. Peak vortex tangential speeds exceeding 300 feet per second have been recorded. The greatest vortex strength occurs when the generating aircraft is HEAVY, CLEAN, and SLOW.Significantly wind speed and direction will play its part. Consider for example an A380 on short finals with severe windshear to contend with too. Furthermore consider the vortex created if the aircraft encounters significant CAT. Does anybody have any data on these two scenarios for the 380?
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A380 following A380
Do I understand from the above that an A380 could (in theory) take off immediately (under 1 min) after another A380 with no effect or worries about wake vortex?
