FR to charge for cabin crew uniforms !!
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Tilii and Hugmonster, I concur.
I too watched the money programme last night and was quite happy watching it until MOL's ugly mug appeared and started going on about how his brand and airline were currently going through a surge in business while a large proportion of other carriers were going through major problems.
It seemed to me to be a case of, - 'We're alright Jack and b0llocks to the rest of you who can't keep up'
This is not written in spite. I currently fly the 737NG (NOT for Ryanair), do not taxy at 70mph and take at least the minimum fuel required.
Ryanair has got a good brand going for itself but I just do not like MOL's approach to his staff and the way he treating other carriers struggling at this time.
I too watched the money programme last night and was quite happy watching it until MOL's ugly mug appeared and started going on about how his brand and airline were currently going through a surge in business while a large proportion of other carriers were going through major problems.
It seemed to me to be a case of, - 'We're alright Jack and b0llocks to the rest of you who can't keep up'
This is not written in spite. I currently fly the 737NG (NOT for Ryanair), do not taxy at 70mph and take at least the minimum fuel required.
Ryanair has got a good brand going for itself but I just do not like MOL's approach to his staff and the way he treating other carriers struggling at this time.
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Justforkix
Why so touchy? For a chap who claims to read, you do seem to have trouble with English comprehension.
Hands up all those who've been privileged enough to have read Justforkix's recommended "small book" entitled Who moved my cheese by MD Spencer Johnson.
Apparently we should all rush out to buy it, coz Justforkix says "[i]t's a book about how we react to change and that is very relevant in our industry right now".
Let's not get killed in the rush.
Good grief lad! The subject here is "FR to charge for cabin crew uniforms". What have cheese, MDs, or reactions to change got to do with that? I've already told you that it's an ancient concept. O'Leary has not come up with anything novel here. Just as he has invented nothing new in any other area of his very limited expertise. Don't you believe me?
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]
Why so touchy? For a chap who claims to read, you do seem to have trouble with English comprehension.
Hands up all those who've been privileged enough to have read Justforkix's recommended "small book" entitled Who moved my cheese by MD Spencer Johnson.
Apparently we should all rush out to buy it, coz Justforkix says "[i]t's a book about how we react to change and that is very relevant in our industry right now".
Let's not get killed in the rush.
Good grief lad! The subject here is "FR to charge for cabin crew uniforms". What have cheese, MDs, or reactions to change got to do with that? I've already told you that it's an ancient concept. O'Leary has not come up with anything novel here. Just as he has invented nothing new in any other area of his very limited expertise. Don't you believe me?
[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]
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If you want to read management books, may I strongly recommend Nuts! by Kevin & Jackie Freiberg? Subtitled "Southwest Airlines' Crazy Recipe for Business and Personal Success" it's the story of Southwest Airlines and its legendary CEO, Herb Kelleher.
Now, there's a man to emulate!
Now, there's a man to emulate!
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The Guvnor
At last we have the explanation, Guv. Most posts you make have the distict flavour of something 'Nutty' about them. Especially, of course, when you are simply doing your best to wind up the entire world population of pilots (which is surely most of the time).
Must say I'm a little disappointed to hear you, of all people, advocating 'emulation'. You are unarguably a uniquely gifted individual. Why would you wish to copy others? 
At last we have the explanation, Guv. Most posts you make have the distict flavour of something 'Nutty' about them. Especially, of course, when you are simply doing your best to wind up the entire world population of pilots (which is surely most of the time).
Must say I'm a little disappointed to hear you, of all people, advocating 'emulation'. You are unarguably a uniquely gifted individual. Why would you wish to copy others?
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Just experienced Ryan air flights between Stansted and Perpignan. Bit of a mixed bag of good and bad.
The flights left and arrived on time in both directions. So in getting you from A-B excellent, especially for just 49p each way.
The outbound flight had the added bonus of cabin crew in good spirits and pleasant friendly to. There only down fall no white coffee at the beginning of the flight. (they use prefilled cups of tea coffee and hot choc)
The aircraft tray tables were dirty and had a childs artistic talents as a bonus on mine.
Inbound flight. No tea or coffee left at all.
Rear bev maker u/s and us in the mid cabin section knew all about it in the crews attitude. No1 inexperience showed through, getting rather "snappy" with crew and moving themself out of paxs eye. Tried serving too much at the same time ie tax free and train tickets paxs getting confused and calling crew back for either tickets or tax free. Crew did not know exchange rates. franc to the pound was quoted to the pax next to me at 3.20 something. mmm. This was corrected and the crew then handed back too much change.
Landing back at Stansted the No1 left us to disembark down dark airstairs and their head firmly trying to work out the bar takings and paperwork. No Good Bye.
As I went down the airstairs just noticed a dark cord tied to the airstairs which was connected to an object by the wing. Being dark bit dangerous this.
Yes I would use Ryan air again but never at there maxium fare.
Just one question. Why do the crew block off the first two rows?
The flights left and arrived on time in both directions. So in getting you from A-B excellent, especially for just 49p each way.
The outbound flight had the added bonus of cabin crew in good spirits and pleasant friendly to. There only down fall no white coffee at the beginning of the flight. (they use prefilled cups of tea coffee and hot choc)
The aircraft tray tables were dirty and had a childs artistic talents as a bonus on mine.
Inbound flight. No tea or coffee left at all.
Rear bev maker u/s and us in the mid cabin section knew all about it in the crews attitude. No1 inexperience showed through, getting rather "snappy" with crew and moving themself out of paxs eye. Tried serving too much at the same time ie tax free and train tickets paxs getting confused and calling crew back for either tickets or tax free. Crew did not know exchange rates. franc to the pound was quoted to the pax next to me at 3.20 something. mmm. This was corrected and the crew then handed back too much change.
Landing back at Stansted the No1 left us to disembark down dark airstairs and their head firmly trying to work out the bar takings and paperwork. No Good Bye.
As I went down the airstairs just noticed a dark cord tied to the airstairs which was connected to an object by the wing. Being dark bit dangerous this.
Yes I would use Ryan air again but never at there maxium fare.
Just one question. Why do the crew block off the first two rows?
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Once again we see the arrogance of tilii.
The thread is about change- in this case to the way uniforms are obtained. The book that justforkix recommends is about- wait for it- how we react to change, and is especially relevant given the topic at hand, and the way the industry is changing in general.
Most of us read- the possible exception being tilii- and this book is worth a look.
It is also true to say that all writers of books have themselves read other books, and few, other than the most extraordinarily arrogant, would say that their writings do not contain at least some unoriginal thought. In this regard, the point made by tilii nothing more than pompous posturing, from someone who I doubt has written anything more learned than his standard put-downs of PPRuNers.
For those of you with open minds, try reading the two books mentioned here, if only to give yourself a new perspective (and hence better understanding) of the world around you.
The thread is about change- in this case to the way uniforms are obtained. The book that justforkix recommends is about- wait for it- how we react to change, and is especially relevant given the topic at hand, and the way the industry is changing in general.
Most of us read- the possible exception being tilii- and this book is worth a look.
It is also true to say that all writers of books have themselves read other books, and few, other than the most extraordinarily arrogant, would say that their writings do not contain at least some unoriginal thought. In this regard, the point made by tilii nothing more than pompous posturing, from someone who I doubt has written anything more learned than his standard put-downs of PPRuNers.
For those of you with open minds, try reading the two books mentioned here, if only to give yourself a new perspective (and hence better understanding) of the world around you.
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MOR
Sorry to see you don't like my PPRuNe persona. I make no judgement about yours.
This thread is not about change at all. It's about O'Leary doing something that's been done before ... and done a very long time ago. Why would anyone 'react' to change that is not change but repetition?
You may well feel the industry is going through some unique changes at present, but I do assure you that us old-timers have seen most of this before in one form or another.
I'm not much interested in rising to your baiting as to what I may or may not have written elsewhere than on PPRuNe. That's for me to know and you to find out.
I respect your right to hold that the mentioned books will give you a 'new perspective' or 'better understanding' of the world around you. But that is the world around you, not that around me.
Let's get back to the subject now, shall we? The fact that FR will force its employees to buy their own uniforms - an absolutely disgraceful event. Not new, not change, but disgraceful anyway.
Sorry to see you don't like my PPRuNe persona. I make no judgement about yours.
This thread is not about change at all. It's about O'Leary doing something that's been done before ... and done a very long time ago. Why would anyone 'react' to change that is not change but repetition?
You may well feel the industry is going through some unique changes at present, but I do assure you that us old-timers have seen most of this before in one form or another.
I'm not much interested in rising to your baiting as to what I may or may not have written elsewhere than on PPRuNe. That's for me to know and you to find out.
I respect your right to hold that the mentioned books will give you a 'new perspective' or 'better understanding' of the world around you. But that is the world around you, not that around me.
Let's get back to the subject now, shall we? The fact that FR will force its employees to buy their own uniforms - an absolutely disgraceful event. Not new, not change, but disgraceful anyway.
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I know this is a bit off the topic of this thread but it is a key reason why the low fare carriers seem to flourish. Euroboy states that he would fly Ryanair again but not at the max fare. At what point do the $ ( sorry my US keyboard does not have symbol for pounds) override ones desire for a decent level of service and safety. You describe something you believe to be unsafe, poor service and dirty aircraft yet you are willing to stoop to flying them again if "the price is right"! If we all insisted on being treated decent and were willing to part with a few $ to get it - not a lot but a few - air travel would be far more pleasant for all. It is all of the cheap pax out there willing to be dished dirt, cr@p and poor service and possibly even compromise safety for a few $ that screws up the system for all of us. Stand up for your right to be treated minimally decently and don't take cr@p for low fares!
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tilii
This might be due to the fact that English is my third language, I'm sorry if I can't comprehend the English language, but at least I try. I'd love to see you try writing this in German, French or any other language for that matter. My experience tells me that most people that batter others on their language skills, only speek one language themselves.
Having tried being without a flying job in the nineties, I've seen a bit myself. But it is different this time around:
The old flag carriers can't recieve handouts from their goverments.
Lowcost carriers are expanding in times were all other carries are cutting back capacity.
Passengers can choose between carriers with different concepts. High price and a lousy meal with free drinks, or low price with no frills. This how the passengers see it.
I personally work for one of the flagcarriers and all I'm saying is we have to change if we don't want to end up like Sabena, Swissair, Air Lingus and Olympic.
[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: Justforkix ]
you do seem to have trouble with English comprehension.
You may well feel the industry is going through some unique changes at present, but I do assure you that us old-timers have seen most of this before in one form or another.
The old flag carriers can't recieve handouts from their goverments.
Lowcost carriers are expanding in times were all other carries are cutting back capacity.
Passengers can choose between carriers with different concepts. High price and a lousy meal with free drinks, or low price with no frills. This how the passengers see it.
I personally work for one of the flagcarriers and all I'm saying is we have to change if we don't want to end up like Sabena, Swissair, Air Lingus and Olympic.
[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: Justforkix ]
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Personally think it is discusting that any company makes you buy their uniform. It was a sort of perk that you did not have to buy clothing for work.
Ryan air constantly banging on about all this profit they are making...it seems to be in the form of pilot CV`s/FO salaries and now changing cabin crew £450 for a bit of polyester.
I believe no UK/Irish low cost have cabin crew unions in the form of Cabin Crew89 (the milder of the two) and BASSA, now that one would remove the smile off an airline boss or two.
Perhaps its time for cabin crew to start joining and when reaching 50% announcing a few purposals of change.
Biz SLF I totally agree with you. But I have to use Ryan air on one route being STN to Dinard. Its the only direct flight and Air France you have to change aircraft and airport in Paris for domestic flights. Air France have cut flights to Brittany since Air Inter and Britair was taken over.
I watched the drama unfold on my return flight from Perpignan knowing that things were not quite right. But I have to be careful having been crew for 14 years it maybe too easy to critize and say thats the way I would have done it.
On the way out a woman paxs was chatting to her friends, on opening her table she also found it dirty. Her comment was...oh well what do you expect for 49p. and continued with her conversation.
I work for a major carrier, and believe me if a paxs finds the odd tray table that has been missed, we are told by the paxs and we clean it straight away.
Its all down to would the paxs expects. Fly BA/Air France or bmi on that Perpignan flight and with that level of service and I guess there would be a comment/complaint made to the crew or the HO.
Currently, I am experiencing paxs who don`t normally fly with my employer. They try to pay us for drinks, perhaps expect more on the food front, because they are use to hot meals on charter flights.
My choice in Ryan air this time was just to see what went on and more out of interest, personally think that the majors are better and have a more professional service, because of experience somewhere whilst the cabin crew on Ryan air use it as a stepping stone for a career as cabin crew or aviation.
Ryan air constantly banging on about all this profit they are making...it seems to be in the form of pilot CV`s/FO salaries and now changing cabin crew £450 for a bit of polyester.
I believe no UK/Irish low cost have cabin crew unions in the form of Cabin Crew89 (the milder of the two) and BASSA, now that one would remove the smile off an airline boss or two.
Perhaps its time for cabin crew to start joining and when reaching 50% announcing a few purposals of change.
Biz SLF I totally agree with you. But I have to use Ryan air on one route being STN to Dinard. Its the only direct flight and Air France you have to change aircraft and airport in Paris for domestic flights. Air France have cut flights to Brittany since Air Inter and Britair was taken over.
I watched the drama unfold on my return flight from Perpignan knowing that things were not quite right. But I have to be careful having been crew for 14 years it maybe too easy to critize and say thats the way I would have done it.
On the way out a woman paxs was chatting to her friends, on opening her table she also found it dirty. Her comment was...oh well what do you expect for 49p. and continued with her conversation.
I work for a major carrier, and believe me if a paxs finds the odd tray table that has been missed, we are told by the paxs and we clean it straight away.
Its all down to would the paxs expects. Fly BA/Air France or bmi on that Perpignan flight and with that level of service and I guess there would be a comment/complaint made to the crew or the HO.
Currently, I am experiencing paxs who don`t normally fly with my employer. They try to pay us for drinks, perhaps expect more on the food front, because they are use to hot meals on charter flights.
My choice in Ryan air this time was just to see what went on and more out of interest, personally think that the majors are better and have a more professional service, because of experience somewhere whilst the cabin crew on Ryan air use it as a stepping stone for a career as cabin crew or aviation.
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Justforkix
OK. I apologise for criticising your English comprehension. If you would wish other PPRuNers to allow for such disadvantage, may I suggest that it would be more than helpful if you stated in your profile that you are from somewhere on this planet other than "3rd rock from the sun".
And I admit that I would find it difficult to write in any of the languages you nominate. This is possibly due to the fact that I have never had the desire to formally learn such languages, though I do speak some French, German, Russian and Norwegian.
With respect to the remainder of your post above, I would point to the fact that you seem to again miss the point, as follows:
I think you will find this statement is only true of EU flag carriers, and even then there have been some EU bailouts in the past. In any event, the world is far bigger than Europe.
Nothing new about this. Remember the Laker Skytrain?
Again, nothing new here. Been around for years, irrespective of how today's pax might see it.
I respectfully suggest to you that "if we [collectively speaking, of course] don't want to end up like Sabena, Swissair, Air Lingus and Olympic" then we would be well advised to look to the real reasons for the demise of these airlines. And the real reason is surely more to do with appallingly bad managements who relied on state bailouts more than once too often than anything "we" might have done. Thus it is not "we" who need to change, it is "them". And they have, haven't they. They've gone.
I suspect that what is happening in aviation at the moment is probably not bad in the long term. Even the fact that O'Leary chooses to treat his employees like dirt will eventually lead to its inevitable, satisfactory, conclusion. Either he or his airline will go.
[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]
OK. I apologise for criticising your English comprehension. If you would wish other PPRuNers to allow for such disadvantage, may I suggest that it would be more than helpful if you stated in your profile that you are from somewhere on this planet other than "3rd rock from the sun".
And I admit that I would find it difficult to write in any of the languages you nominate. This is possibly due to the fact that I have never had the desire to formally learn such languages, though I do speak some French, German, Russian and Norwegian.
With respect to the remainder of your post above, I would point to the fact that you seem to again miss the point, as follows:
The old flag carriers can't recieve handouts from their goverments.
Lowcost carriers are expanding in times were all other carries are cutting back capacity.
Passengers can choose between carriers with different concepts. High price and a lousy meal with free drinks, or low price with no frills.
I respectfully suggest to you that "if we [collectively speaking, of course] don't want to end up like Sabena, Swissair, Air Lingus and Olympic" then we would be well advised to look to the real reasons for the demise of these airlines. And the real reason is surely more to do with appallingly bad managements who relied on state bailouts more than once too often than anything "we" might have done. Thus it is not "we" who need to change, it is "them". And they have, haven't they. They've gone.
I suspect that what is happening in aviation at the moment is probably not bad in the long term. Even the fact that O'Leary chooses to treat his employees like dirt will eventually lead to its inevitable, satisfactory, conclusion. Either he or his airline will go.
[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: tilii ]
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FR cabin crew will no doubt be delighted to peruse the Sunday Times list of top earners in Ireland (for year 2000) published last sunday .Three members of the "Ryan airline" family make the top 10. Tony earned £40m, his sons Cahal and Declan had shares sales earnings of £17m each and the man himself MoL had earnings of £28.2m made up of share sales and a salary of £300k plus bonuses of 130k.
The good news is that for year 2001 things will get much better with new revenue streams in the form of cabin crew uniforms sales making an impact. Unfortunatly the value of this comes too late to substantially affect this years financial outturn,however the full value will be
realised in year 2002.
The good news is that for year 2001 things will get much better with new revenue streams in the form of cabin crew uniforms sales making an impact. Unfortunatly the value of this comes too late to substantially affect this years financial outturn,however the full value will be
realised in year 2002.
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tilii
As something of an old-timer myself, I too have seen many changes. What is currently happening is accepted by the vast majority of commentators as being fundamentally different.
I wasn't baiting you concerning what you may or may not have written, simply saying that, despite the inference of your post, I doubted that you had written anything... etc. I'll change the word "doubted" for the phrase "am certain". I am therefore uninterested in "finding out".
Sad to see that you are so entrenched in your (apparently very old) ways, that you cannot give credit where it is due. Ryanair have not, to my knowledge, yet killed a customer... I'm sure your employer has.
Mr. O'Learys' operation may not be to your personal liking, but it is profitable and it is popular with the public- the two factors that will ensure its success as the dinosaurs (such as the one you work for) perish.
Yes, they (Ryanair) will get what they deserve... profits! Hope you can contain your chagrin...
As something of an old-timer myself, I too have seen many changes. What is currently happening is accepted by the vast majority of commentators as being fundamentally different.
I wasn't baiting you concerning what you may or may not have written, simply saying that, despite the inference of your post, I doubted that you had written anything... etc. I'll change the word "doubted" for the phrase "am certain". I am therefore uninterested in "finding out".
Sad to see that you are so entrenched in your (apparently very old) ways, that you cannot give credit where it is due. Ryanair have not, to my knowledge, yet killed a customer... I'm sure your employer has.
Mr. O'Learys' operation may not be to your personal liking, but it is profitable and it is popular with the public- the two factors that will ensure its success as the dinosaurs (such as the one you work for) perish.
Yes, they (Ryanair) will get what they deserve... profits! Hope you can contain your chagrin...