easyJet to go long - haul ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
easyJet to go long - haul ?
can anyone throw any light on the probability/
feasibility of stelios starting up a trans-atlantic operation out of LGW?
happy new year to yalll.
feasibility of stelios starting up a trans-atlantic operation out of LGW?
happy new year to yalll.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Beds
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was mooted some years ago, that maybe EJ should employ engineers with 767 experience. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Stelios tested the water where long haul is concerned, but may be not yet. Let us at least get over the repacutions of 11-9-01 before we get too excited.
IMHO I think that a lot has to be learned from the US experience of low cost operators; eventually what started out to be low cost becomes 90% of schedualed, but without the comforts of what you would normally expect for a trip costing so much. I feel that the big boys feer that they have too much to lose if yhe low costers get a foot hold in the money making market.
IMHO I think that a lot has to be learned from the US experience of low cost operators; eventually what started out to be low cost becomes 90% of schedualed, but without the comforts of what you would normally expect for a trip costing so much. I feel that the big boys feer that they have too much to lose if yhe low costers get a foot hold in the money making market.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Valley Where the Thames Runs Softly
Age: 77
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't the good news that the market will decide? Low cost will only be attracted to high-traffic routes, and we shall see how many people want a minimum service level on a 6-10 hour flight. Long sectors almost entirely remove the advantages of fast turnrounds. As it is, you can fly transatlantic for a couple of hundred quid if you want to, and that does not leave a lot of room to cut fares further.
The die is cast for short haul, but low cost won't have anywhere near the impact on the long runs. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
The die is cast for short haul, but low cost won't have anywhere near the impact on the long runs. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Guest
Posts: n/a
Nah, Bollocks! EasyJet's (and the other low-cost operators for that matter) business model depends on high utilisation of aircraft on short sectors - long haul requires a different model with higher costs. This would push them into closer competition with the established long-haul players who can rely on their business and first class to maintain margins while they flog their economy seats at a price the low-costers cannot match. Eventually, EasyJet would need to offer business and first class services to compete - and I can't see that fitting in with their cheap 'n cheerful approach.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: U.A.E
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry
Don't agree, as Florida is becoming a standard destination for Brits, surely money could be made on a low cost op from LGW to SFB daily. As EZY luv Boeing, what extra could a 767 cost, if it works from LGW then would follow LTN, LPL,GLA... who knows, the futures bright the future is low cost.... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Don't agree, as Florida is becoming a standard destination for Brits, surely money could be made on a low cost op from LGW to SFB daily. As EZY luv Boeing, what extra could a 767 cost, if it works from LGW then would follow LTN, LPL,GLA... who knows, the futures bright the future is low cost.... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: LTN uk
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but many people already do offer a low cost service from various uk airports to sfb - its called a charter flight! anyway, pax figures for uk tourists to florida had declined quite significantly in the past few years, so much so that many tour operators have cut capacity by a large ammount, and so less seats. may pick up again - who knows, but if existing low-cost charter flights go with empty seats and you can fly scheduled (if you shop around) trans atlantic to nyc, bos, mia for around £200 - doupt there is much of a gap,easy can fill.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 55
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The word that springs to mind is "CityBird", who used to run low cost trips out of BRU to LAX, MIA and I think MCO.... where are they now?
FWIW, I work as a business consultant in this sector, and I think Neo hit the nail squarely on the head. The LCAs won't get a toehold in the long haul sector because the majors won't let them.
A prediction - the LCAs may turn out to be the "dot coms" of the airline business... remember ValuJet?
TA
FWIW, I work as a business consultant in this sector, and I think Neo hit the nail squarely on the head. The LCAs won't get a toehold in the long haul sector because the majors won't let them.
A prediction - the LCAs may turn out to be the "dot coms" of the airline business... remember ValuJet?
TA
Guest
Posts: n/a
Most certainly low cost carriers can operate long haul - just don't try and operate both longhaul and shorthaul at the same time.
Laker's Skytrain operation was an overwhelming success - until he put Regency Service on board. It scared the heck out of the big boys who thought he was after their premium pax so they zapped him. Ironically, most business pax steered well clear of Skytrain because they equated it with the great unwashed, backpacking students etc.
The lesson from Sir Freddie is therefore identify your market - and stick to it.
Of course, there's nothing stopping an entrepreneur from doing what Branson has and setting up new companies, each of which have their own identity and business plan, to operate these services.
xyz-pilot is right, though - EZY as it is currently constituted would not be permitted to operate services outside the EU from the UK. Not only isn't Stelios not British, he's not even resident here (he lives in Monaco).
Laker's Skytrain operation was an overwhelming success - until he put Regency Service on board. It scared the heck out of the big boys who thought he was after their premium pax so they zapped him. Ironically, most business pax steered well clear of Skytrain because they equated it with the great unwashed, backpacking students etc.
The lesson from Sir Freddie is therefore identify your market - and stick to it.
Of course, there's nothing stopping an entrepreneur from doing what Branson has and setting up new companies, each of which have their own identity and business plan, to operate these services.
xyz-pilot is right, though - EZY as it is currently constituted would not be permitted to operate services outside the EU from the UK. Not only isn't Stelios not British, he's not even resident here (he lives in Monaco).
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: midlands
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guv
Isn't not, isnt that a double negative, but I guess we get the drift.
Until someone opens up a chain of restaurants offering british food and beer the US won't be as popular a destination as the Mediterrainian resorts are that lay on all the comforts of home.
A friend of mine is going to San Fran (not that type of friend) for a business conference and if he flies out on Monday and returns on Friday the fare is £1000, if he stays over for the weekend the fare reduces to £250. If Easy Jet could beat that they would be doing quite well.
The LCA's work on advertising rock bottomm fares that they sell at a loss, because if you fill up a plane at that fare there is no way they could make any money. There standard fares must still be about the same as any other carrier and they get the people who are desparate to get there and will pay the high fare at the last minute.
The Businessman will always pay the high fare because they want the flexibility, if the meeting is cx at the last minute or the times are changed they can either take a refund or change the time that they fly. The more discount you get on your ticket the less flexible the airline will be changes to flights or refunds, also the less you pay for the ticket the less guarantee you have of getting onto the flight in teh first place. If the flight is overbooked the last on is the traveler that has payed the least for his seat.
One thing that amazes me is that no one has challenged the LCA's for anti-competitive behaviour. eg FR have seen off Go on the Scottish to Dub routes by undercutting them on the fares, if FR have been making a loss on those routes to get rid of GO then that must be anti competitive. I'm not a lawyer, does anyone know what the law is on that type of activity.
Isn't not, isnt that a double negative, but I guess we get the drift.
Until someone opens up a chain of restaurants offering british food and beer the US won't be as popular a destination as the Mediterrainian resorts are that lay on all the comforts of home.
A friend of mine is going to San Fran (not that type of friend) for a business conference and if he flies out on Monday and returns on Friday the fare is £1000, if he stays over for the weekend the fare reduces to £250. If Easy Jet could beat that they would be doing quite well.
The LCA's work on advertising rock bottomm fares that they sell at a loss, because if you fill up a plane at that fare there is no way they could make any money. There standard fares must still be about the same as any other carrier and they get the people who are desparate to get there and will pay the high fare at the last minute.
The Businessman will always pay the high fare because they want the flexibility, if the meeting is cx at the last minute or the times are changed they can either take a refund or change the time that they fly. The more discount you get on your ticket the less flexible the airline will be changes to flights or refunds, also the less you pay for the ticket the less guarantee you have of getting onto the flight in teh first place. If the flight is overbooked the last on is the traveler that has payed the least for his seat.
One thing that amazes me is that no one has challenged the LCA's for anti-competitive behaviour. eg FR have seen off Go on the Scottish to Dub routes by undercutting them on the fares, if FR have been making a loss on those routes to get rid of GO then that must be anti competitive. I'm not a lawyer, does anyone know what the law is on that type of activity.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Other than anything else, one of the prime factors in the easy model is to operate one type only,for obvious reasons of crewing. It would go against everything said so far to then operate 75/767 and have to type rate x amount of pilots onto this, not too mention cabin crew and engineers. Maybe one day the NG aircraft will have a dual rating with the 777 then there will be no stopping him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: LTN, UK
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just 2 points to make:
1, easyJet Switzerland operate oputside the EU
2, Stelios in a European Citizen so even if he did owner all of EZY (which as rightly pointed out he doesn't) then he would still have the right to fly from the UK to outside the EU, ownership just has to be within the EU not the country of domicile (look at BY/BLX/JMC etc all owned within the EU not the UK)
1, easyJet Switzerland operate oputside the EU
2, Stelios in a European Citizen so even if he did owner all of EZY (which as rightly pointed out he doesn't) then he would still have the right to fly from the UK to outside the EU, ownership just has to be within the EU not the country of domicile (look at BY/BLX/JMC etc all owned within the EU not the UK)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Big E - Stelios and his family still own around 60% of the company.
clipstone - EZY Switzerland is, I believe, majority owned by Swiss interests and acts as a 'franchisee'.
The rules are very simple, and you can get hold of a copy from the CAA's Economic Regulation Group if you want. They boil down to the following:
1) If you want to operate intra EU only, the company must be majority owned and controlled by EU nationals. Brits, Greeks, Belgians, French - it doesn't matter.
2) If you want to operate from any EU country to a point outside the EU, then the company must be majority owned and controlled by nationals of that country. This is one of the issues that's holding up GSS - who actually controls it. John Porter and his minions, which would be fine - or Atlas Air, which isn't?
Those rules will change as the EU takes over the sovereign rights on bilaterals. Incidentally, OM is ultimately owned by Globus, which is a Swiss company.
clipstone - EZY Switzerland is, I believe, majority owned by Swiss interests and acts as a 'franchisee'.
The rules are very simple, and you can get hold of a copy from the CAA's Economic Regulation Group if you want. They boil down to the following:
1) If you want to operate intra EU only, the company must be majority owned and controlled by EU nationals. Brits, Greeks, Belgians, French - it doesn't matter.
2) If you want to operate from any EU country to a point outside the EU, then the company must be majority owned and controlled by nationals of that country. This is one of the issues that's holding up GSS - who actually controls it. John Porter and his minions, which would be fine - or Atlas Air, which isn't?
Those rules will change as the EU takes over the sovereign rights on bilaterals. Incidentally, OM is ultimately owned by Globus, which is a Swiss company.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: london
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easyjet has at this time no plans on going long haul .
It is concentrating on high frequency european routes ,and building up its Gatwick base.
Hope that helps. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
It is concentrating on high frequency european routes ,and building up its Gatwick base.
Hope that helps. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">