easyJet to go long - haul ?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London
Posts: 528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some four years ago I had the great good fortune to be seated next to Stelios on one of his flights. I raised the possiblity of long-haul operation, and he was very much against it. He cited the example of PeoplExpress, which he believed had had a viable business right up to the point where they began transatlantic operations. He had clearly studied that company's rise and fall in great detail. Such was his strength of feeling on the subject that I would be surprised if, four years on, he had changed his mind.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peeps,
If I try to take a family of four to good old MCO or SFB on what is being called a "cheap and cheerful" charter flight, then I challenge you all to get me a deal during school summer holidays for less than a grand!
Come on Stelios (or Michael for that matter) - "Get in there my son!!" There's money to be had!
Wings level, Ball in the Puddle....
If I try to take a family of four to good old MCO or SFB on what is being called a "cheap and cheerful" charter flight, then I challenge you all to get me a deal during school summer holidays for less than a grand!
Come on Stelios (or Michael for that matter) - "Get in there my son!!" There's money to be had!
Wings level, Ball in the Puddle....
But surely, Guv, EZY (UK operation, vis. EZY 721 -LPL/GVA) as well as EZS ( Swiss operation, vis EZS 942 LPL/GVA) operate from the UK to Geneva? Switzerland is still outside the EU.Also from AMS, NCE, LTN and LGW to GVA. But I would agree long haul would definitely appear to be outside the business plan.
[ 28 December 2001: Message edited by: kriskross ]</p>
[ 28 December 2001: Message edited by: kriskross ]</p>
Guest
Posts: n/a
kriss kross - when SAir Group was given permission to acquire a majority shareholding in EU carriers Sabena and Air Liberte the Swiss Government agreed to a deal with the EU where EU carriers could operate into Switzerland as if it was an EU member state and vice versa.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Hertfordshire,UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all Basil, I thought airlines were in the business of flying punters from A to B, whether it be by a low or full cost airline. It is the punter who chooses how he/she wants to get there and how much they want to pay. Choice must be a good thing. Remember, low cost airlines still employ just as many pilots and cabin crew as the others.
Secondly Guv, as easyJet is a British PLC I don't see any reason for there being a bar against flying outside the EU. After all Rod is the CEO of a British PLC and he's not even European, whereas Stelios is!!
Secondly Guv, as easyJet is a British PLC I don't see any reason for there being a bar against flying outside the EU. After all Rod is the CEO of a British PLC and he's not even European, whereas Stelios is!!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Hertfordshire,UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guv, the regulations may appear to be black and white, but we all know that nothing in aviation is that clear cut. If there's a will, there's a way. After all, how do the yanks fly in and around Europe, in US registered a/c, without ever seeing stateside. It's just that they're called UPS and Fedex and have money and influence! And please don't tell me they aren't allowed to do it and therefore don,t, I've been flying freight for 6+ years and I know they do.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Reagan - it comes down to ownership as, I have already explained. Skippy doesn't own BA.
As for the US carriers operating N reg aircraft in Europe - now there we agree. Various European countries are permitting the Yanks to do what the Yanks refuse European airlines permission to do. <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
The Yanks want Open Skies - as long as it's their version of Open Skies, that benefits their airlines. They do not want to provide cabotage; derived fifth freedom, dispense with the Fly America policy or any of their other protectionist, anti-competitive measures.
Not terribly sporting, is it?
As for the US carriers operating N reg aircraft in Europe - now there we agree. Various European countries are permitting the Yanks to do what the Yanks refuse European airlines permission to do. <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
The Yanks want Open Skies - as long as it's their version of Open Skies, that benefits their airlines. They do not want to provide cabotage; derived fifth freedom, dispense with the Fly America policy or any of their other protectionist, anti-competitive measures.
Not terribly sporting, is it?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Hertfordshire,UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May not be a bad idea redtail, afterall easyJet, Go and dare I say Ryanair (working it's crews into the ground!) do it just as well as Southwest, if not better - hey, at least the passengers' security would be taken a little more seriously!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an occasional LCA passenger, I get cheesed off with the delays, changes, cancellations and cramped conditions that I find so regularly with the LCAs, and that's just for short hops about the UK. I usually swear never to travel that way again but, of course, the so-called 'good deal' attracts the cheap-skate in me again. I would be exceedingly cheesed off, then, if I wasn't sure what time of day, or even what day, I would be arriving at my destination some thousands of miles across the Og. I would also be exceedingly cheesed off at having my knees welded to my chin for 8 hours or more. I feel that, as far as most private travellers are concerned, the LCAs would have to operate more like the big airlines and less like taxi services to make the long-haul business attractive, especially when there are so many cheap fairs available already.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey ZOOM - that was brave of you, criticising a LCA (is that Loada Cr@p Airline?). Standby for a rabid attack from those who expouse this form of "transport" and vilify any other alternatives. Could it be that there are passengers out there who can resist the "cheap-skate inside them" and would like a more comfortable, reasonably priced option, where you're given the service you deserve?
Dare to defy!
The force is with me...at least until Feb!
Dare to defy!
The force is with me...at least until Feb!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of EU
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What, like a sandwich (all of £1.50) and a cup of coffee? If on a 3 hour Rome - London service I was given a tiny pasta salad I'd rather have brought my own food to sustain me! If I'm flying with a full fare carrier then I expect good service, not mediocre which the like of BA & bmi are currently giving.
No I don't work for an LCA, I work for another scheduled short haul carrier but the level of service you're paying for in a "reasonably priced option" isn't up too much. No wonder pax are taking the cheaper option, at least you know what you're getting! Last month I priced on the web a day return from London to Amsterdam. easyJet was £47, bmi was £265 & BA was £370. All economy - those are certainly expensive sandwich's with bmi and expensive all day delibags with BA!
Why do LCA pilot's fight back? Well maybe because you've been putting them down for the last X years?
<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 01 January 2002: Message edited by: Scottie ]</p>
No I don't work for an LCA, I work for another scheduled short haul carrier but the level of service you're paying for in a "reasonably priced option" isn't up too much. No wonder pax are taking the cheaper option, at least you know what you're getting! Last month I priced on the web a day return from London to Amsterdam. easyJet was £47, bmi was £265 & BA was £370. All economy - those are certainly expensive sandwich's with bmi and expensive all day delibags with BA!
Why do LCA pilot's fight back? Well maybe because you've been putting them down for the last X years?
<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 01 January 2002: Message edited by: Scottie ]</p>
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scootie - I never said that BA and BMI are always "reasonably priced options". In fact, I agree that those prices you quoted are expensive and I think that those fares - particularly day trips and those where you don't stay a Saturday night etc. - are a huge part of the problem. My comments were about what I'd like BA (shorthaul) to be (and anyone else who'd like to offer the public an alternative to the LCAs) which is a reasonably priced high quality product for the customer.
There are a lot of areas in which I find the LCAs lacking and it irritates me when their success leads them to think that their product is the only way forward. It would be a very sad day if the only options left to pax for shorthaul were LCAs (I don't even want to think about Longhaul).
The LCAs spotted a gap in the market and went after it with a vengence and with success. They've created a defined product and cornered their share of the market. But being a "no frills" product it only offers so much (little) to the customer, so there must be an alternative market for customers who want more and are prepared to pay for it. This is the market that the "Famous Five" of the BA Future Size and Shape team should be considering (in addition to the Club passenger). There's a lot more to flying than simply the price of the ticket, although that's what the LCAs would have us believe.
The force is with me...at least until Feb!
There are a lot of areas in which I find the LCAs lacking and it irritates me when their success leads them to think that their product is the only way forward. It would be a very sad day if the only options left to pax for shorthaul were LCAs (I don't even want to think about Longhaul).
The LCAs spotted a gap in the market and went after it with a vengence and with success. They've created a defined product and cornered their share of the market. But being a "no frills" product it only offers so much (little) to the customer, so there must be an alternative market for customers who want more and are prepared to pay for it. This is the market that the "Famous Five" of the BA Future Size and Shape team should be considering (in addition to the Club passenger). There's a lot more to flying than simply the price of the ticket, although that's what the LCAs would have us believe.
The force is with me...at least until Feb!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The purpose of the 'no frills' bit is to keep the cost down which for some people is the most important aspect. Frankly sitting up the front it doesn't affect me - a 737 flight deck looks the same be it in ezy, BA, BMI or wherever.
Will ezy go longhaul - I doubt it.
Would the low cost concept work on long haul - I'm not hugely sold on the idea myself but I suppose for some it would be okay and it worked for Sir Freddie.
Why do myself and other ezy pilots take on some of the negative posters on the forum - for myself I only return fire to the ones that are either inaccurate or rude. Fair criticism is okay. As I recently said on another thread if someone popped up being rude about BA pilots they'd probaly respond (Our supposed brother professionals have suggested that ezy pilots are ill mannered and waifs and strays from other locations).
Incidently a lot is made of what some poeple seem to to think of as 'full service airlines' and BA gets mentioned in this class. My honest assessment having flown with lots of airlines is that if you want full service you'd chose to fly with Thai, Singapore or Cathay.
Will ezy go longhaul - I doubt it.
Would the low cost concept work on long haul - I'm not hugely sold on the idea myself but I suppose for some it would be okay and it worked for Sir Freddie.
Why do myself and other ezy pilots take on some of the negative posters on the forum - for myself I only return fire to the ones that are either inaccurate or rude. Fair criticism is okay. As I recently said on another thread if someone popped up being rude about BA pilots they'd probaly respond (Our supposed brother professionals have suggested that ezy pilots are ill mannered and waifs and strays from other locations).
Incidently a lot is made of what some poeple seem to to think of as 'full service airlines' and BA gets mentioned in this class. My honest assessment having flown with lots of airlines is that if you want full service you'd chose to fly with Thai, Singapore or Cathay.
Bear Behind
Unwell_Raptor said it back on the first page, I think - would pax be able to put up with no food etc and no frills service for 7 hours plus? Or do you collect your sarnies and your lunch box at the gate?
Squeezy's business model (and Ryan's for that matter) just doesn't stand up for long haul ops, cos you can't keep the costs down - especially if you want a developed network, cos you'd have to have a hub and spoke operation, and it's that which is costing the big boys money. You'd need massive LFs for a successful point to point service, and I just couldn't see them consistently getting that. With the "real" airlines offering 200 quid returns to the States, there's not really a lot of market for the LCAs to eat into.
Personally, if I'd flown to the States with a LCA (or any other airline, for that matter) and my return flight had gone tech, and the airline refused to rebook me or put me up in a hotel until they could get me back, I wouldn't be flying with them again!
Squeezy's business model (and Ryan's for that matter) just doesn't stand up for long haul ops, cos you can't keep the costs down - especially if you want a developed network, cos you'd have to have a hub and spoke operation, and it's that which is costing the big boys money. You'd need massive LFs for a successful point to point service, and I just couldn't see them consistently getting that. With the "real" airlines offering 200 quid returns to the States, there's not really a lot of market for the LCAs to eat into.
Personally, if I'd flown to the States with a LCA (or any other airline, for that matter) and my return flight had gone tech, and the airline refused to rebook me or put me up in a hotel until they could get me back, I wouldn't be flying with them again!