Qantas emergency landing
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Miles CNN
saw the piece...felt it correctly explained that while very unlikely, the scenario with the laptop/cellphone etc. is worth investigating in a scientific manner.
keep it up.
saw the piece...felt it correctly explained that while very unlikely, the scenario with the laptop/cellphone etc. is worth investigating in a scientific manner.
keep it up.
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Interesting that over on D & G Reporting Points it is said that the aircraft was over stressed in the negative and the question raised is how this could happen with the so called FBW envelope protections provided. Reverting to direct law is one suggestion, so the question from this bystander is how could it revert to direct law?
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Yamaha can you explain why? VLF and computers run around similar frequencies.
Plus shielding against low frequency interference is simple. It's higher frequencies that can be challenging.
For the CNN chap, no real chance of this being laptop/cell phone interference. The danger from digital devices used by passengers is interference with analog navigation signals (eg 25-33 MHz processor generating harmonics in the 100 to 133 MHz realm where the VOR/ILS signals live). It is much less likely to interfere with a digital computer - they have to tolerate much self-generated noise as it is.
Grumpy
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I don't think the digital mouse story was ever verified.
My understanding is that it is often the case that crew see a deviation, can't find an immediate explanation - ask a flight attendant to check whether there are any computers/handheld devises being uses. Answer is yes - conclusion drawn.
then incident cannot be replicated.
Might as well ask whether any blondes in the cabin - answer is yes 10 - ergo - 10 blondes will cause navigation deviation.
My understanding is that it is often the case that crew see a deviation, can't find an immediate explanation - ask a flight attendant to check whether there are any computers/handheld devises being uses. Answer is yes - conclusion drawn.
then incident cannot be replicated.
Might as well ask whether any blondes in the cabin - answer is yes 10 - ergo - 10 blondes will cause navigation deviation.
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Reverting to direct law is one suggestion, so the question from this bystander is how could it revert to direct law?
Airbus Flight Control Laws
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A COMPUTER fault caused the autopilot system to be overridden, sending a Qantas plane into a mid-air plunge over Western Australia last week, authorities said tonight.
The air data computer - or inertial reference system - for the Airbus A330-300 sent erroneous information to the flight control computer causing the autopilot to disconnect, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said.
More than 70 people on Qantas flight QF72 from Singapore to Perth were injured on Tuesday last week when the Airbus, carrying 303 passengers and 10 crew, suddenly dropped altitude.
People were hurled around the cabin and the pilot was forced to make an emergency landing in Western Australia's north
Source: Computer fault caused Qantas plunge | NEWS.com.au
The air data computer - or inertial reference system - for the Airbus A330-300 sent erroneous information to the flight control computer causing the autopilot to disconnect, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said.
More than 70 people on Qantas flight QF72 from Singapore to Perth were injured on Tuesday last week when the Airbus, carrying 303 passengers and 10 crew, suddenly dropped altitude.
People were hurled around the cabin and the pilot was forced to make an emergency landing in Western Australia's north
Source: Computer fault caused Qantas plunge | NEWS.com.au
Faulty ADIRU likely cause: ATSB
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Preliminary report from ATSB
Released today, on line here -
MEDIA RELEASE : 14 October 2008 - Qantas Airbus A330 accident Media Conference
MEDIA RELEASE : 14 October 2008 - Qantas Airbus A330 accident Media Conference
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In my opinion the press release raises more questions than it answers.
Surely the A330 and other FBW aircraft don't rely solely on one Inertial reference unit. What happened to the triple redundancy/majority vote systems that the normal law requires before switching out to one of the more direct operating laws ?
If it doesn't use the triple redundancy, then this sort of behaviour could ostensibly happen on short final before the 50ft rad Alt switchover.
That to me is VERY scary.
Surely the A330 and other FBW aircraft don't rely solely on one Inertial reference unit. What happened to the triple redundancy/majority vote systems that the normal law requires before switching out to one of the more direct operating laws ?
If it doesn't use the triple redundancy, then this sort of behaviour could ostensibly happen on short final before the 50ft rad Alt switchover.
That to me is VERY scary.
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one auto pilot engaged at altitude, all that triple redundancy is for approach and auto land.one a/p one adiru feeding it.
but....
yes its concerning even so given command/monitor systems involved and would have thought cross checking between adirus may have voted out the dud info.
I'm as surprised as anyone such an excursion can happen to the extent it did.
over to you mr airbus........
but....
yes its concerning even so given command/monitor systems involved and would have thought cross checking between adirus may have voted out the dud info.
I'm as surprised as anyone such an excursion can happen to the extent it did.
over to you mr airbus........
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7strokeroll
hi 7,
if a 'bus or any fbw aircraft could be sent off heading/course by a normal wireless mouse I reckon there'd be regular carnage all round the world by now.
if a 'bus or any fbw aircraft could be sent off heading/course by a normal wireless mouse I reckon there'd be regular carnage all round the world by now.
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neville nobody
Your question re hi power vlf RMI.
Is this related to the old omega/vlf stations that are or were located in that area of WA?
Dont know if they are still in use but I'm reasonably sure the massive wavelength of a 10 to 30 khz radio signal would do absolutely jack to aircraft systems .
Is this related to the old omega/vlf stations that are or were located in that area of WA?
Dont know if they are still in use but I'm reasonably sure the massive wavelength of a 10 to 30 khz radio signal would do absolutely jack to aircraft systems .
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So how often does this happen?
About 2 minutes after the initial fault, ADIRU 1 generated very high, random and incorrect values for the aircrafts angle of attack.
Dont know if they are still in use....
* I see from Google Map's Street View that the VLF antenna system still stands!
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teal
thanks teal, I thought they'd been decomm'ed over there.The line of enquiry by nev nobody led me to thinking this is what he may have been getting at.
Is that the antenna (in VIC) the nutters have done the BASE jumps off?
Is that the antenna (in VIC) the nutters have done the BASE jumps off?
The latest ATSB statement puts paid to the conspiracy theories about Qantas pilots flying around with newspapers all over their windscreens unable or unwilling to disengage the AP. 
I don't fly Airbus, but I find it almost unbelievable that a modern jet could do what QF 72 did (the same goes for the MAS 777 a couple of years ago).
I don't fly Airbus, but I find it almost unbelievable that a modern jet could do what QF 72 did (the same goes for the MAS 777 a couple of years ago).
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capn bloggs
like the amazing homing oxy cylinder.. but it did.
a bit of a worry.2 apparently unique events so close together.
a bit of a worry.2 apparently unique events so close together.
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ADIRU
ADIRU's
The real concern would now logically be, determining how one wayward ADIRU managed to disable and bypass a multitude of protections designed to prevent such a flight disturbance.
The following protections appear to have been ineffective in this instance,
*Load factor limitation
*Pitch attitude correction
*High speed protection
*Maneuver load alleviation(MLA)
*Turbulence damping function
*System redundancy
I dare say, the serviceability and DDG relief regarding this component will be reviewed without delay.
The real concern would now logically be, determining how one wayward ADIRU managed to disable and bypass a multitude of protections designed to prevent such a flight disturbance.
The following protections appear to have been ineffective in this instance,
*Load factor limitation
*Pitch attitude correction
*High speed protection
*Maneuver load alleviation(MLA)
*Turbulence damping function
*System redundancy
I dare say, the serviceability and DDG relief regarding this component will be reviewed without delay.
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 14th Oct 2008 at 12:32.