Security Theatre
One of the best security acts I have to deal with is the "Airside Security" at Brisbane Airport Australia,having just come from another country and passed through all that Airports security....now you need to board another international flight so off you go as a transit passanger...but wait there is another screening point before you proceed to the boarding lounge....hope you don't have any Duty free grog.....the Contracting Secuirty guards will reduce the weight of your carryon.....each day they collect a large haul of booze...the best haul was a flight out of Sydney for Port Moresby.....for some technical requirement Aircraft diverts to Brisbane....pax told to leave Aircraft and take all carryon off the Aircraft...As most pax had some form of liquid duty free....they were about to have it taken from them...what a haul I tell you there was some very unhappy pax.....but the christmas party this year will be a good one for those uniformed robbers.....or the Collector of Customs auction just got better...why would you need another security check Airside...and its staffed upwards of at least 4 people sometimes more.
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The increased security at airports has nothing to do with making us safer and everything to do about making Governments look like they are taking action. I was really hoping that after our recent federal election the new Government would take the reins and say it's all nonsense and we can stop it now.
Unfortunately the nonsense continues.
My favourite example is the Amberley Air Show. There were thousands of people and billions of dollars of military hardware AND NO SECURITY CHECKS AT ALL.
If a Terrorist really wanted to pick a target that had all the elements this was it. Thousands of people, military hardware and TV Cameras galore. We walked through the gate with an esky full of liquids, metal chairs and shock, horror, UMBRELLAS. No one looked at us twice.
It is clear that the secret services are aware of the potential terrorists and their aims. It is also clear that as soon as something even smells like a risk, several people "disappear" to regions unknown for considerate treatment and gentle information seeking purposes.
All I ask is that I get through the screening process without having to take my bloody shoes off...
Unfortunately the nonsense continues.
My favourite example is the Amberley Air Show. There were thousands of people and billions of dollars of military hardware AND NO SECURITY CHECKS AT ALL.
If a Terrorist really wanted to pick a target that had all the elements this was it. Thousands of people, military hardware and TV Cameras galore. We walked through the gate with an esky full of liquids, metal chairs and shock, horror, UMBRELLAS. No one looked at us twice.
It is clear that the secret services are aware of the potential terrorists and their aims. It is also clear that as soon as something even smells like a risk, several people "disappear" to regions unknown for considerate treatment and gentle information seeking purposes.
All I ask is that I get through the screening process without having to take my bloody shoes off...
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Off the Island ....... thank god!
I am now working out of another European state and at last we have security that has a bit of common sence to it, crews are checked in a plesant and proffesional way, NOT BY THE AGGRESSIVE OVER IMPORTANT HALF WITTED UNACCOUNTABLE SCUM THAT THE UK EMPLOYS FOR SECURITY SCREENING. It is so nice to be treated with respect, unlke the attitude of the numptys in the UK.
We also don't have the restrictions on who rides on the flight deck that the UK goverment mandates, this is at the discresion of the Captain.
We also don't have the restrictions on who rides on the flight deck that the UK goverment mandates, this is at the discresion of the Captain.
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Check your facts
A and C. Can you clarify what you mean by the staff that the UK employs for security screening? Security staff are employed by the airport operator, for example at Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted etc. BAA are the employer - not the UK. If the staff at some central search areas are rude, aggressive, offensive then do something about it and stop filling these pages with rubbish.Ask to see the supervisor and explain what happened, write to BAA and complain, take the individuals name and a description, the time the problem occurred, the exact location, names of any witnesses who will confirm what happened and the names of other staff members working in the same team.It is a shame that one or two bad staff members can taint everyone doing the same job and nothing will happen to rectify the situation if all the complaints are on here and not on a managers desk to deal with.Oh, and if you or others (as yopu state - at captains discretion) are happy to have others on the flight deck with you and cannot see why the UK, amongst others, does not permit it, best stay off the island!
All I ask is that I get through the screening process without having to take my bloody shoes off...
I have a pair of bright greeen ones, with brown trim - very fetching, I'm told I look like Mickey Mouse. Should I care ?
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Oh elgnin... If only life was so easy!
Jesus... We would be all day, complaining. And we have complaints most days!
Try going through UK security as air crew........... It's enlightening.
Positioning in uniform through LGW the other day, I had not 1, but 2 of those yellow jerseyed "Here to help" school dropouts ordering me (not asking!!) to remove my airside pass........
Who the hell are they and where can they learn some manners?
Jesus... We would be all day, complaining. And we have complaints most days!
Try going through UK security as air crew........... It's enlightening.
Positioning in uniform through LGW the other day, I had not 1, but 2 of those yellow jerseyed "Here to help" school dropouts ordering me (not asking!!) to remove my airside pass........
Who the hell are they and where can they learn some manners?
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Tour de France?
Luvly...I must admit I agree, I too have been through Gatwick several times in recent weeks and I remain a little unclear who the yellow jerseys are or why they are there! I assumed, perhaps in haste, that they were there to assist the bucket and spade travellers who only visit now and then and frequently get lost. You said that they 'ordered you' to remove your airside pass. Lots of Questions about that such as, where were you when they made the order - I am assuming landside as the yellows are (I thought) meeters and greeters (M&G's) so should not have been in the RZ. Were they together or was this on 2 separate occasions as you travelled through the airport - if separate that would imply they are not just M&G's and some form of instruction or training has been given to 'order' such requests? Were they displaying any ID's or passes? Did you get their names, locations, witnesses, times etc??
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A and C. Can you clarify what you mean by the staff that the UK employs for security screening? Security staff are employed by the airport operator, for example at Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted etc. BAA are the employer - not the UK. If the staff at some central search areas are rude, aggressive, offensive then do something about it and stop filling these pages with rubbish.Ask to see the supervisor and explain what happened, write to BAA and complain, take the individuals name and a description, the time the problem occurred, the exact location, names of any witnesses who will confirm what happened and the names of other staff members working in the same team.It is a shame that one or two bad staff members can taint everyone doing the same job and nothing will happen to rectify the situation if all the complaints are on here and not on a managers desk to deal with.Oh, and if you or others (as yopu state - at captains discretion) are happy to have others on the flight deck with you and cannot see why the UK, amongst others, does not permit it, best stay off the island!
Off the Island ....... thank god!
I remain of the opinion that this is a simple mechanism by which those unsuitable for employment at McDonalds are able to secure a job. Their managers being those who were fired from McDonalds for misconduct and those making the bl
y rules, dont even get me started!Scenario - I go to work here, operate a sector to LGW (for instance) and then pass the 2L bottle of water I took to work to someone airside at LGW - Can you imagine the terror threat of it? Perhaps LGW would like to screen all inbound crew and PAX on leaving the AC also?
RIX
Solution to security woes for airline pax
Ground all Biz jets for six months. That way the people who really run the country get screwed over big time and they won't put up with that so will lean on their tame politicians to sort thngs out.
Never happen of course but it would get the job done
PB
Ground all Biz jets for six months. That way the people who really run the country get screwed over big time and they won't put up with that so will lean on their tame politicians to sort thngs out.
Never happen of course but it would get the job done
PB
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Also, please note Raclette cheese is no problem, but Camembert is subject to 100ml/100g limit.
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But folks, remember. We do not have any security controls to improve any security. We have security controls for our politicians, saying "yes, we have done something".
Even they know that it will not be of any help in case of... But who is the one telling all those people at home, eating their burgers in front of the television between two "reality" series: "ok, we're getting rid of the airport security, passengers will no longer be controlled, 10.000's of people working for security companies will lose their jobs" - he will not get voted again, and worse, all those vegetarians out there will complain that "now all those terrorists will kill instantly all americans all over the world".
Uhm, nothing will cange so.
Even they know that it will not be of any help in case of... But who is the one telling all those people at home, eating their burgers in front of the television between two "reality" series: "ok, we're getting rid of the airport security, passengers will no longer be controlled, 10.000's of people working for security companies will lose their jobs" - he will not get voted again, and worse, all those vegetarians out there will complain that "now all those terrorists will kill instantly all americans all over the world".
Uhm, nothing will cange so.
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I had security staff being rude to me when they forgot to take my pic at passenger search and so denied me access to the domestic pier at Heathrow, Terminal One. The smug little man folded his arms and said he would not give me his name quoting "data protection act". His supervisor would only give me his first name and his position. Is this BAA policy? I am chasing BAA but this will take time. Anyone know if all staff are allowed to refuse to identify themselve?
Thanks
Thanks
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The Data Protection Act only applies to personal information stored on a computer - it is not an excuse for somebody to refuse to give you their name......
S78
S78
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And it is not just security people who do this.
I had a disagreement with the LH ground staff (who were at their usual rude best) at FRA.
This guy refused to identify himself after calling me "illegitimate", then when I tried to turn over his badge to get his name, he accused me of assaulting him. His boss also refused to identify him, and of course all concerned claimed not to hear what he said (despite the fact he shouted it at the top of his lungs).
I wonder how LH can have such good crew in the air yet such bad tempered, unhelpful , "jobsworth" people on the ground?
I had a disagreement with the LH ground staff (who were at their usual rude best) at FRA.
This guy refused to identify himself after calling me "illegitimate", then when I tried to turn over his badge to get his name, he accused me of assaulting him. His boss also refused to identify him, and of course all concerned claimed not to hear what he said (despite the fact he shouted it at the top of his lungs).
I wonder how LH can have such good crew in the air yet such bad tempered, unhelpful , "jobsworth" people on the ground?
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Anyone know if all staff are allowed to refuse to identify themselve?
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Security Theatre
The UK policy on Jumpseat is unique .Most airlines do allow non-operating f/deck in their employ to use the j/seat .
One can operate a flight a flight into UK airspace one day and the next you are not allowed to be in the cockpit if you are not operating .
Contrary to what you may believe , it is the norm in most , if not all other CAA jurisdictions to allow (or not regulate j/seat use).
What most agree on is that "other airline staff/crew " should not be allowed access to the c/pit j/seat , but the CAA should not dictate that "only operating crew can occupy the j/seat " How is it any safer if I can only, say d/head into LHR as a pax in the back , BUT it would be perfectly acceptable to operate out immediately ( at the control ).
One can operate a flight a flight into UK airspace one day and the next you are not allowed to be in the cockpit if you are not operating .
Contrary to what you may believe , it is the norm in most , if not all other CAA jurisdictions to allow (or not regulate j/seat use).
What most agree on is that "other airline staff/crew " should not be allowed access to the c/pit j/seat , but the CAA should not dictate that "only operating crew can occupy the j/seat " How is it any safer if I can only, say d/head into LHR as a pax in the back , BUT it would be perfectly acceptable to operate out immediately ( at the control ).
Good timing with this thread.
I forgot my ASIC (Aussie security card thingy) the other day and had to exit through an international airport, on the way to an overseas port then back into Aus.
I was with another pass holder, which is technically legal as he an escort me, but I thought I'd try just walking through.
And I did - no-one asked to see my ID and I went straight out onto the apron no problems at all. If they give me any greif at all next week, I'll remind them of their little mistake this week.
I forgot my ASIC (Aussie security card thingy) the other day and had to exit through an international airport, on the way to an overseas port then back into Aus.
I was with another pass holder, which is technically legal as he an escort me, but I thought I'd try just walking through.
And I did - no-one asked to see my ID and I went straight out onto the apron no problems at all. If they give me any greif at all next week, I'll remind them of their little mistake this week.
How is it any safer if I can only, say d/head into LHR as a pax in the back , BUT it would be perfectly acceptable to operate out immediately ( at the control ).
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I had security staff being rude to me when they forgot to take my pic at passenger search and so denied me access to the domestic pier at Heathrow, Terminal One. The smug little man folded his arms and said he would not give me his name quoting "data protection act". His supervisor would only give me his first name and his position. Is this BAA policy? I am chasing BAA but this will take time. Anyone know if all staff are allowed to refuse to identify themselve?
Some spotty little, failed burger flipper tried the same in EGCC on me, caused all manner of a kerfuffle over a trivial matter that anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size would have resolved in milliseconds.
The more complaints that both PAX and Crew can file against these morons, the more chance of something been done about it. Write to your MP, Newspapers whoever you can, and claim back our airports from these imbeciles.