Ryanair Tail Strike at Dublin Sept 11
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Listening to the ATC recording. There was an initial call '207 we need, eh 208. We need descent' and then a minute or two later a request for a further descent. ATC cleared him to descend to FL80 and asked if he required a continuous descent. This does imply the flight was above FL80.
It is too soon to speculate as to why the tailstrike happened but it's worth pointing out that it was windy and gusty at Dublin yesterday which is a known factor in tailstrikes.
It is too soon to speculate as to why the tailstrike happened but it's worth pointing out that it was windy and gusty at Dublin yesterday which is a known factor in tailstrikes.
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Lucky it wasn't QANTAS, there would have been a full investigation by now and somehow the engineers would have got the blame.
It's so similar in Australia, we can have multiple turn backs due to hydraulics, pressurisation etc. but if it’s not QANTAS it doesn't make the news!
Time to move on or do we have to wait until the next return to catch the attention.
BTW not a Ryanair lover, just know that stuff like this is not unusual, I have seen much worse.
It's so similar in Australia, we can have multiple turn backs due to hydraulics, pressurisation etc. but if it’s not QANTAS it doesn't make the news!
Time to move on or do we have to wait until the next return to catch the attention.
BTW not a Ryanair lover, just know that stuff like this is not unusual, I have seen much worse.
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AOB9
Sorry guys, I'm not a pilot.
How would such a tail strike occur? I imagine excessive rotation or lack of power would cause this. I notice there are no comments on why this happened so I presume that despite the inconvenience it's not all that unusual.
How would such a tail strike occur? I imagine excessive rotation or lack of power would cause this. I notice there are no comments on why this happened so I presume that despite the inconvenience it's not all that unusual.
(Also not selecting any flaps... but I don't think that was the case here...)
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Tail strikes on the -800 are not a common occurrence. However, having been sitting up front in an aircraft that had one some years ago in Germany, it is very apparent that you have had one. You can't hear anything of course but the stop in the rotation is quite evident.
If there was enough damage to prevent pressurisation, rather than just crushing the cartridge, then the hit must have been quite hard and most certainly would have been evident to the crew.
While the drill for a Tail Strike is not a recall checklist I would be most surprised if the aircraft flew much above FL 100.
Deploying the O2 would have been a precaution.
Speculation over......
If there was enough damage to prevent pressurisation, rather than just crushing the cartridge, then the hit must have been quite hard and most certainly would have been evident to the crew.
While the drill for a Tail Strike is not a recall checklist I would be most surprised if the aircraft flew much above FL 100.
Deploying the O2 would have been a precaution.
Speculation over......
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Not a pilot myself, but I'm surprised there isn't a sensor built into the tailskid to indicate when a tail strike has occured?
Do any airframes offer this? Wouldn't imagine it would be difficult to implement...
Do any airframes offer this? Wouldn't imagine it would be difficult to implement...
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As already stated, tail-strikes aren't all that common but quite easy to do as there's not much margin for error especially if it's a bit gusty.
The flight crew would probably be aware of the impact, but there are no 'recall items' so they would focus on getting the aircraft cleaned up before referring to the non-normal check list which tells them to manually open the outflow valve and de-pressurise the aircraft.
Oxygen masks would not be deployed automatically unless the cabin pressure was above 14000ft, but I don't imagine the flight crew would conduct a manual de-pressurisation at this altitude. If the masks came down, it would probably have been triggered manually by the flight crew. Without wishing to speculate on why this was done in this instance, I would consider releasing the 'rubber jungle' if the cabin crew felt it was necessary (pax with breathing difficulties?) but as it would probably cause more panic, plus the heat and smell, I'd only do it if I felt it was the safest thing to do.
Bottom line: something 'non-normal' happened in flight and the crew acted in the interests of passenger safety and landed the aircraft. Well done.
The flight crew would probably be aware of the impact, but there are no 'recall items' so they would focus on getting the aircraft cleaned up before referring to the non-normal check list which tells them to manually open the outflow valve and de-pressurise the aircraft.
Oxygen masks would not be deployed automatically unless the cabin pressure was above 14000ft, but I don't imagine the flight crew would conduct a manual de-pressurisation at this altitude. If the masks came down, it would probably have been triggered manually by the flight crew. Without wishing to speculate on why this was done in this instance, I would consider releasing the 'rubber jungle' if the cabin crew felt it was necessary (pax with breathing difficulties?) but as it would probably cause more panic, plus the heat and smell, I'd only do it if I felt it was the safest thing to do.
Bottom line: something 'non-normal' happened in flight and the crew acted in the interests of passenger safety and landed the aircraft. Well done.
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qzsedrftg
Sometimes a tail strike is not apparent to the flight crew as it often only involves a very light scrape of the tail skid that is detected in the rear galley.
It usually takes a little time for the cabin crew to report this to the senior and then the flight crew to be contacted.
It is not unreasonable for the aircraft to reach FL160 before the climb is stopped. As has been said above the drill is to depressurize the aircraft but to do this by immediately opening the outflow valve is likely to compound your problems.
My aim would be an immediate descend and at the same time Slowly open the outflow valve so as to keep the cabin altitude slowly increasing as the aircraft descends and have the cabin reach zero Dif/PX at about FL80. this will avoid dropping the rubber jungle, passenger discomfort and additional expense to the company. I also complies with the non normal check list.
It usually takes a little time for the cabin crew to report this to the senior and then the flight crew to be contacted.
It is not unreasonable for the aircraft to reach FL160 before the climb is stopped. As has been said above the drill is to depressurize the aircraft but to do this by immediately opening the outflow valve is likely to compound your problems.
My aim would be an immediate descend and at the same time Slowly open the outflow valve so as to keep the cabin altitude slowly increasing as the aircraft descends and have the cabin reach zero Dif/PX at about FL80. this will avoid dropping the rubber jungle, passenger discomfort and additional expense to the company. I also complies with the non normal check list.
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Hear hear, the flightcrew acted impeccably, and completely by the book. Ryanair are getting a lot of publicity lately, but that maybe because their CEO courts publicity so much, and therefore a lot of journalists find him cocky, and can't wait to "take him down a peg or two." But his biggest nightmare, and the only thing that keeps him awake at night is the fear of a major accident. Safety is, has been, and always will be his number one priority.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
the flightcrew acted impeccably
sr
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The skid and cartridge are there to protect the elevator jack assembly - they don't cover the full area that could contact the runway in the event of an over-rotate. It is as probable that the area in front of or behind the skid assembly will contact the runway dependent upon rotation rate, flap setting, C of G, etc.
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What a load of nonsense; we have no idea whether they acted impeccably or not. How about we let the AAIB do its job and determine exactly what happened.
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Ok,heres what i think happened,
The tail strike occured on takeoff, un-detectable in the flight deck,possibly heard by the cabin crew or pax in the rear of the cabin, by the time the word had got to the flight deck (remember,locked cockpit door) also possibly inexperienced crew in the rear cabin, the purser found out, then passed it to the flight crew "the girl down the back said there was a small bang/scrape on takeoff etc" a light 800 will get up there pretty quick,possibly around 5 mins and your already upto 150.so the guys get the info,talk about it (CRM,PIOSSE etc) then decide to action the QRH checklist,which involves depressurising/limiting the cabin, possibly manually operating the out flow valve etc, a good dicision to manually drop masks if above 140.as far as i can tell, they made a plan, executed it and returned to base.well done lads. again ,it makes me really angry when armchair pilots come onto this forum and tell US what WE should be doing.We go in the sim every 6 months to keep current, and these are the kind of incidents we practise. again, well done fellas,good work.
LGW warrior
The tail strike occured on takeoff, un-detectable in the flight deck,possibly heard by the cabin crew or pax in the rear of the cabin, by the time the word had got to the flight deck (remember,locked cockpit door) also possibly inexperienced crew in the rear cabin, the purser found out, then passed it to the flight crew "the girl down the back said there was a small bang/scrape on takeoff etc" a light 800 will get up there pretty quick,possibly around 5 mins and your already upto 150.so the guys get the info,talk about it (CRM,PIOSSE etc) then decide to action the QRH checklist,which involves depressurising/limiting the cabin, possibly manually operating the out flow valve etc, a good dicision to manually drop masks if above 140.as far as i can tell, they made a plan, executed it and returned to base.well done lads. again ,it makes me really angry when armchair pilots come onto this forum and tell US what WE should be doing.We go in the sim every 6 months to keep current, and these are the kind of incidents we practise. again, well done fellas,good work.
LGW warrior
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Also something else to remember,when descending with cabin depressurised,you must descend the aircraft at only 500-1000ft per min as the cabin will also descend at this rate,any faster and it will cause discomfort,i guess they descended in the hold somewhere near dub, hence the delay in returning to land.
lgw warrior
lgw warrior