Turkish A310 incident

[forget]

Albatros37, it doesn't add up.

If the radio was working well enough to talk to another aircrew, why weren't they talking to ATC??

Quite. There's something very about this. I'll reserve my 'standing ovation'.

[Albatros37]

The turkish crew was talking to control, but since communications were non usual, the control was asking all the time to repeat messages. When the turkish asked to flash on and off the runway lights, the controller did not understand, and the Kenya repeated the message to the controller in a different manner. Never ever the control said to other traffics he had an emergency, so a lot of a/c were reporting positions, asking for level change etc...and then congesting the frequency; and the Kenya said to all traffics : please pay attention to turkish 1123 because he has some troubles, then some a/c stopped using the frequency.
I'm not from Kenya, I was in the area hearing everything, and I just wanted to thank that guy of kenya because he was great.
What else ?

[Albatros37]

And there was another traffic (ivoire or senegal ?) who heard the discussion between the turkish pilots and the lome ATC and then explained in french to lome that turkish was in distress. At this time and ONLY at this time the guy started talking quietly...
I know that it seems unbelievable, but it is the reality in that part of the world...

[jetopa]

An incident like this could ruin your day in any part of the world. But in Africa? At night? Scary thought.

Well done, gentlemen (I assume the Turkish pilots were male)!

[Magh3]

@ Glorified busdriver

Well just my humble opinion..I don't think you are in a position to judge the professionalism of this particular crew..

Just because they had their hands full in managing the emergency and didn't talk in your opinion in a professional way with atc doesn't make them an unprofessional crew.. aviate, navigate, communicate ever heard this one?
An accident with aeroperu comes into my mind, this crew was completely lost and I agree it's a different situation, however if the crew would not have continued over the pitch black sea the outcome might have been different and that's exactly what this crew did according to the herald.

So please don't pass your judgment on a crew who did a good job in saving the aircraft and it's passengers..

But then again who am I? I am sure you as a professional pilot would do a much better job

[pacplyer]

Just Marvelous,

A "professional" opinion from a 28 year old ground bus driver with a hand held who has two posts on pprune!

Son,

When "Homo-trons" start tripping busses because some young goof left his toolkit bouncing around down in the E&E who knows what systems a pilot can loose? Who cares about talking to the tower or squawking?

It's just not important. These guys obviously had a major failure, were lost and it was all they could do to get lined up with some pavement before the fuel was exhausted. In an emergency they don't need permission from anyone to do anything.

Maybe that tower should be re-staffed with people who understand what their job is. It's not to chew out flights under distress. Since you can see everything from your hand-held, why didn't you or Atc pick up the phone and tell the local towers to quit watching HBO and look out the window for this guy?

I have no idea. I wasn't there.

.

[glorified bus driver]

magh3/pacplyer

Firstly i'm entitled to my opinion. Secondly, there is a lot more information which i decided not to disclose on the post. I stated my opinion; I didn't say they didn't do a good job getting the passengers to safety. Read the article again, (if you can read). It said Turkish Airlines confirmed the report as accurate. I didn't agree with it. It also said nothing was found wrong with the aircraft. And sorry old man pacplyer, age does not mean anything and like I do not know your aviation experience (and do not care), you do not know mine. It's childish comments by the likes of you, being the reason I don't put posts up. And it is a rumour forum and I happen to be too mature for you and your friends that have no life and live on this forum. Let me put you in a control tower, see how you handle it. Sorry, you happen to be a know it all, might just not make a mistake. Will chat to you again when the report surfaces. (If it does.........) Oh and as you said, you were not there. Please save the hot air.

[lexxie747]

I Was There, These Clowns Had No Idea What They Were Doing, If It Wasnt For Arikair,and The Likes Who Prompted Them What To Do, They Would Have Pranged.
Furthermore, These Great Pilots,had The Audacity To Climb And Decend Through Other Traffics Levels Without Telling Or Asking Anbody. They Were Not Listening Or Broadcasting On 121.5 Or 126.9
The Least They Could Have Done Since They Had Comms, Is To Tell Other Traffic They Had A Problem.
For Anybody Who Wasnt There, Please Refraim From Praising These Guys.
I Am Sure It Says English Proficient On Here License,something That Is Pertinently Not True.

[forget]

I Was There, These Clowns Had No Idea What They Were Doing, If It Wasnt For Arikair,and The Likes Who Prompted Them What To Do, They Would Have Pranged.

Now we're getting somewhere. A310s are perfectly well equipped without a Garmin and a hand held VHF.

[glorified bus driver]

Thanks lexxie747 for the confirmation. So to all you know it alls, read other credible forums on aviation and you will see what I mentioned (coupled with what lexxie747) is mentioned by other pilots (who were there). to macplyer, you welcome to state your age and experience or if to embarrased, pm me. you might be suprised, there are people out there with more aviation experience than you(this youngster might just be one of them). And that age on my profile is incorrect but as I said, age has nothing to do with it. Try learn a thing or two before blowing your horn on stuff you don't know. Once again, well done to the Kenyan crew and others who helped. I will maintain my opinion and irrespect of it, I am happy no life was lost.

[Doodlebug2]

And they want to make the AFI RVSM airspace from 25 September 2008 ???? What with many aircraft not transmitting on 126,90 and deficiencies in radio and radar equipment, standby for more interesting stories!

[Magh3]

@Glorified Busdriver and lexxie747

Nobody said anything about you not being entitled to your opinion, I am going to refrain from making other comments because you are not discussing your opinion you are trying to insult people, with remarks such as if you can read etc . However as I said.. still don't think you are in a position to judge their professionalism. Why did you delete your post by the way??

Further It always strikes me how quick other airline pilot's are there to call somebody else unprofessional, CLOWNS etc. I see aircrew in the simulator for a large European company regularly and to be honest if my statistics are correct some people on pprune should not speak so full of confidence about other crew's flying skills. and believe me just because somebody speaks well English or good on the radio doesn't at all represent their flying skill or airmanship. These guys appear to have had a genuine problem and maybe it doesn't win a beauty contest but they got the job done.

[lemay]

Stby-Instruments?

Not knowing anyting about the A310, I find it hard to imagine that this airplane would be without any kind of nav. and comm. equipment on a separate set of batteries (be it a basic ADI and/or RMI with a VOR/LOC and GS receiver + ADF on their stby-instruments) in case of a major electrical malfunction. Doesn't the A310 have a RAT, by the way?

If they indeed had such instruments available, then there shouldn't be much praise about their 'heroic' deeds.

Because, finding their way to an adequate airport with such reduced or basic equipment may not have been easy, but definitely possible. This should have been exactly, what they've been trained for. Hopefully, that is.

[pacplyer]

Magh3 said:

@Glorified Busdriver and lexxie747
Nobody said anything about you not being entitled to your opinion, I am going to refrain from making other comments because you are not discussing your opinion you are trying to insult people, with remarks such as if you can read etc . However as I said.. still don't think you are in a position to judge their professionalism. Why did you delete your post by the way??

Further It always strikes me how quick other airline pilot's are there to call somebody else unprofessional, CLOWNS etc. I see aircrew in the simulator for a large European company regularly and to be honest if my statistics are correct some people on pprune should not speak so full of confidence about other crew's flying skills. and believe me just because somebody speaks well English or good on the radio doesn't at all represent their flying skill or airmanship. These guys appear to have had a genuine problem and maybe it doesn't win a beauty contest but they got the job done.

Thank you for your cool head, Magh3 the lone voice of sanity on this thread. Of course, since we weren't on the flight deck and don't know the maintenance and flying history of the crew and ship, none of us can hand down a verdict of "professional" or "clown" at this stage of the event. Right? All we know is that the Captain did the right thing because they are all alive.

Please General Lemay, and other armchair aviators, if you don't have about a decade on the subject in question, let's not sit here pretend we know the airworthiness of an old A310.

You have no idea, the unreported spurious failures that go on in a poorly maintained early model. Some nights that damn ecam computer alone will go "ding ding ding" all fracking night long.... with no way to tell the damn thing that we already know capts CADC is busted for two seconds; then it is fine. Then, another hour of alarms.

If you had a flight engineer distracting you all night like that you'd fire him.

It was a good airplane; but like all things good, it had some short comings as the first glass machine in the industry. One of those was the famous: "ground checks O.K:"

"By golly captain! This FUBAR has been written up for weeks but my system download software says "Byte checks O.K." "Tell you what, I'm going to swap the CADC's again and sign this puppy off for another adventure!"

Note: it looks like we have some local atc folks on this thread. That's fine; and nothing wrong with stating an opinion, but keep in mind that calling pilots "unprofessional; clowns; etc" prior to an investigation: puts you up for cross examination by the pprune peanut gallery : you can't have any credibility on this site if you make up a screeen name [bus driver], then pull your posts and lie about how old you are. Wouldn't you agree?

pac

[Capt. Manuvar]

Lexxie747,
I heard about that one from pilots who were there, and there was another interesting one a few days later. MEA A330 from ACC-LOS that lost all navigation equipment and was all over the place. We were holding 1300ft above them yet we have to avoid them running into us. Luckily the wx was nice, but it still took the intervention of other aircraft around who gave them directions b4 they could find the runway and land in lagos. GPWS warnings could be heard in the background when they made atc transmissions.
What would make such high tech machines loose all ability to navigate, or is it the crew that have issues?

[glorified bus driver]

@mcaplyer and magh3

Reason for me pulling the post is because I was asked by an investigating party who confirms my details with other pilots, (who were there, not in asia), on other forums. And I will not entertain you two further more on the matter as it is evident that you two do not know what you talking about and high ranking officials out there consider my information credible along with others.

For a "know it all", amazing you claim this glass technology the first in the industry. Please get your facts right. Oh, and you not the only one with an Airbus rating "son". (If you even have one). So please don't talk about ECAM's, etc. What about the RAT?

And no need to lie about age, ask if you want. Pity you chose not to state yours and your experience on the matter. Yep, you might just go down in shame. It's people like you I had to help with in the air and search for when you came short when I was an ATC. Now i'm suppose to argue about systems of an Airbus or other aircraft (such as Boeing,,etc) with you as well. Don't believe everything you see on Flight Sim. I am not always right, but I know what I heard and experienced that evening. It's far more than you two yabber mouths can say. I rest my case.

[jetopa]

RAT and stby. instruments

I think, Gen. Lemay's point is absolutely valid. Does the A310 have a RAT and what sort of stby. equipment for navigational purposes will be available when everything else goes down the drain?

I also think, that - no matter whether any of us here could have done much better or not - the crew successfully brought the airplane down in one piece. At night and in Africa. Thats good, isn' it?

In case any critique is justified, they most probably will be debriefed by their respective chiefpilot.

[Magh3]

SUMMARY: This amendment adopts a new airworthiness directive (AD), applicable to certain Model A310 and Model A300 B4-600, A300 B4-600R, and A300 F4-600R (collectively called A300-600) series airplanes, that requires replacement of the ejection jack on the ram air turbine (RAT). The actions specified by this AD are intended to prevent the ejection jack on the RAT from failing when the RAT is deployed at high airspeeds, leading to a loss of ability to properly restrain the movement of the RAT, possibly resulting in damage to the RAT itself and to other airplane components. In the event of an emergency, failure of the ejection jack on the RAT could also result in a reduction of hydraulic pressure or electrical power on the airplane. This action is intended to address the identified unsafe condition.


maybe the RAT didn't deploy at all?? Seems there are some problems with the RAT on the models 300 including 310

[hetfield]

Does the A310 have a RAT and what sort of stby. equipment for navigational purposes will be available when everything else goes down the drain?

Yes 300/310 got a RAT, but it's only to power yellow hyd system in case of pump low pressure.

Elec backup is either with BAT and inverter (about 30 min.) or by stby generator which is driven by green hydraulic without any time limit. Most instruments on capts side will work.

regards

[pacplyer]

"glorified bus driver" said:

@mcaplyer and magh3

Reason for me pulling the post is because I was asked by an investigating party who confirms my details with other pilots, (who were there, not in asia), on other forums. And I will not entertain you two further more on the matter as it is evident that you two do not know what you talking about and high ranking officials out there consider my information credible along with others.

For a "know it all", amazing you claim this glass technology the first in the industry. Please get your facts right. Oh, and you not the only one with an Airbus rating "son". (If you even have one). So please don't talk about ECAM's, etc. What about the RAT?

And no need to lie about age, ask if you want. Pity you chose not to state yours and your experience on the matter. Yep, you might just go down in shame. It's people like you I had to help with in the air and search for when you came short when I was an ATC. Now i'm suppose to argue about systems of an Airbus or other aircraft (such as Boeing,,etc) with you as well. Don't believe everything you see on Flight Sim. I am not always right, but I know what I heard and experienced that evening. It's far more than you two yabber mouths can say. I rest my case.

"Bus driver" the other posters are right about your confusion on the "pinwheel"; the air turbine. The A310 RAT has nothing to do with an electrical failure as it is far too small to power anything significant. It is designed primarily for double engine failure flight control assist. It's real alternative purpose as hetfield tried to explain to you is to provide back up power for the yellow system hydro. But no electrical back up source will recover lost buses if that's the situation you are facing one night.

The problem "bus driver" is not your obvious lack of experience or knowledge about the airplane and crew you criticize in this emergency. The problem is your attitude. You take a combative stance to others who object to you shooting from the hip, before relevent facts are known. You know nothing about what happened on board that flight. But you want us to believe that you and your dip shidt hand held radio are beyond challenge.

If an illiterate loose cannon with no control over his emotions is the guy authorities are going to for insightful information, then no wonder the accident rate is so high in that part of the world.