EZY Captain gets the boot
Join Date: Apr 2008
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ezygb,
There are many ways to skin a cat.
It makes it easier to transit to a new company if you accept that the different SOP's are just that - different. You are also paid to operate to said SOP's, so just take a deep breath and get on with it, you may even get to enjoy it!
There are many ways to skin a cat.
It makes it easier to transit to a new company if you accept that the different SOP's are just that - different. You are also paid to operate to said SOP's, so just take a deep breath and get on with it, you may even get to enjoy it!
Hi MAPSHIFT
As an ex Bluestar, I'm sure you'll also be aware of the cockups made by our guys in the slavish pursuit of the monitored approach.
The Cat 11s flown in Cavok to allow for a late landing clearance down to 100Radio, or conversely the go rounds flown from from Cat 1 DA before a late landing clearance had been given, much to the despair of ATC!
The complete lack of a coherent SOP for a monitored circling or visual approach also didn't help because a handover at MDA was mandated! What MDA would you use on a visual?? I could go on, but life's too short!
The Cat 11s flown in Cavok to allow for a late landing clearance down to 100Radio, or conversely the go rounds flown from from Cat 1 DA before a late landing clearance had been given, much to the despair of ATC!
The complete lack of a coherent SOP for a monitored circling or visual approach also didn't help because a handover at MDA was mandated! What MDA would you use on a visual?? I could go on, but life's too short!
On second thoughts
I flew the 1-11, the CRJ and the 737, yes the P1 could take control whenever he wanted but was reluctant to do so, as it was drilled into the guys that the P2 flew the approach with the sole aim of doing a go round and the P1 took control only to land. It was getting the P1 to take control at an appropriate point before MDA/DA when the weather was nice that proved to be the problem.
There was one distinct advantage to the monitored approach though, so I must accept it had some merit! I could finish my breakfast on an early AMS while my coleague flew it for me.
Happy days!
There was one distinct advantage to the monitored approach though, so I must accept it had some merit! I could finish my breakfast on an early AMS while my coleague flew it for me.
Happy days!
hi roger
Yes, it worked that way round, but I got thoroughly sick and tired of flying the aircraft to cat 1 minima when conditions and airmanship dictated that the other bloke took control early to get the power and trim sorted.
You often got the P1 waiting till DA on a gusty day and then getting all out of shape with big thrust and trim inputs before crashing on with rudder, aileron, elevator and thrust levers all in the wrong place!
I don't think the rationale behind the monitored approach covered this type of scenario as it was really intended for LVOs and not for other types of weather.
My current operator encourage handing control to the other pilot when the workload is high, but emphasize that reducing the workload first may be a better option.
hi Map Shift
Yup, right on both counts!
You often got the P1 waiting till DA on a gusty day and then getting all out of shape with big thrust and trim inputs before crashing on with rudder, aileron, elevator and thrust levers all in the wrong place!
I don't think the rationale behind the monitored approach covered this type of scenario as it was really intended for LVOs and not for other types of weather.
My current operator encourage handing control to the other pilot when the workload is high, but emphasize that reducing the workload first may be a better option.
hi Map Shift
Yup, right on both counts!
Last edited by hec7or; 22nd Aug 2008 at 11:38. Reason: spelling
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Many years ago, using BA SOPs with GO, bless her, I did my initial line check to CPH with a very experienced ex-BA trainer in the right seat.
Having handed control over to him at TOD he somehow managed to position the aircraft high and fast on the approach. As it was CAVOK he muttered something about me taking control at around 500'. When he tried to hand over control to me I told him to Go-around and called ATC and told them we were going around.
He was not impressed having to fly toe missed approach and subsequent radar circuit but said nothing when we got back to STN. He even signed me off.
To my mind there are too many variables, the gusty conditions being the other major situation, where monitored approaches are less than ideal.
Having handed control over to him at TOD he somehow managed to position the aircraft high and fast on the approach. As it was CAVOK he muttered something about me taking control at around 500'. When he tried to hand over control to me I told him to Go-around and called ATC and told them we were going around.
He was not impressed having to fly toe missed approach and subsequent radar circuit but said nothing when we got back to STN. He even signed me off.
To my mind there are too many variables, the gusty conditions being the other major situation, where monitored approaches are less than ideal.
intervention of CAA SRG
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The company culture in England is somewhat different than other places.
Almost everyday colleagues remind me to keep my back free, which means "flidras" is watching you. It very much feels like being monitored for the wrong reason. Company says "its for safety", whilst other say its a tool "so the company can kick pilots around". Well the tea and wafer-meeting ends up without the wafer and then you are in trouble. You dont get fired just because one incident, of course. But the company starting to use the flidras in a wrong purpose is bad. It makes the day out less relaxing and thus more tense.
Lots of colleagues are scared to make a small mistake and thus somewhat uncomfortable in some situations where you, for example, end up hot and high. Thats not necessary at all but the system makes it like this.
But hey- just accept it and continue I guess. And like it when you get shouted at.
Almost everyday colleagues remind me to keep my back free, which means "flidras" is watching you. It very much feels like being monitored for the wrong reason. Company says "its for safety", whilst other say its a tool "so the company can kick pilots around". Well the tea and wafer-meeting ends up without the wafer and then you are in trouble. You dont get fired just because one incident, of course. But the company starting to use the flidras in a wrong purpose is bad. It makes the day out less relaxing and thus more tense.
Lots of colleagues are scared to make a small mistake and thus somewhat uncomfortable in some situations where you, for example, end up hot and high. Thats not necessary at all but the system makes it like this.
But hey- just accept it and continue I guess. And like it when you get shouted at.
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An easyjet fast on approach!...you're havin' a laugh!..... I'm constantly stuck behind easyjet ballsing up the flow of traffic into airfields by going so bloody slowly. Whatever about econ' speeds in descent, one companies procedures cannot be allowed to unreasonably slow everyone else up. So easy, speed up or 
off!.
off!.
B'leedinghedges, as has been said several times before - ezy are at econ speed! Just one thats a little more ECON than your own. In a few years, if fuel dont come cheaper, everyone wil be at that dismally slow crawl. And I suspect, anyone who doesnt, may be flying their last trip!
Very sad, but true, I believe.
Very sad, but true, I believe.
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A passenger's perspective:
For those of you who do not appear to care for stable approach criteria, I suggest that you mention this in your pre-flight announcement to your passengers so that those of us who do not wish to be flown by your type of pilot can disembark the aircraft.
Your attitude is a disgrace to safe flying practices.
I am sure this easyJet pilot was fired for an accumulation of reasons. Those who think otherwise are quite naive.
Good riddance: we do not need his type in the skies.
For those of you who do not appear to care for stable approach criteria, I suggest that you mention this in your pre-flight announcement to your passengers so that those of us who do not wish to be flown by your type of pilot can disembark the aircraft.
Your attitude is a disgrace to safe flying practices.
I am sure this easyJet pilot was fired for an accumulation of reasons. Those who think otherwise are quite naive.
Good riddance: we do not need his type in the skies.
Nicholas49:
Whilst you may have gleaned some peripheral knowledge from the above posts pertaining to the incredibly complex sub sets of flight data monitoring, flight profiles, risk assessment, aviation insurance and disciplinary procedures, I think it's probably best your poorly formulated comments are left at the door of Jet Blast or SLF.
From a pilots point of view: Bog Off.
Whilst you may have gleaned some peripheral knowledge from the above posts pertaining to the incredibly complex sub sets of flight data monitoring, flight profiles, risk assessment, aviation insurance and disciplinary procedures, I think it's probably best your poorly formulated comments are left at the door of Jet Blast or SLF.
From a pilots point of view: Bog Off.
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According to Flidras, every single one of us usually breaks a gate or two somewhere on the flight, purely just due to atc or strict guidlines within the system that are not part of our sop's.
Flidras guys will only call the capt if they believe a multiple of gates have been broken and could have been avoided.
the company only get to see the who's who if the flidras guys believe that the capt did not have a reasonnable enough excuse for his actions or the actions themselves where so bad that it could'nt be avoided.
personnally i don't see the problem provided it is used accordingly.
as for econ sppeds in the descent it is not just easy that fly approx 250kts, i can think of 3 others immediately, we use a cost index of 10, it will help in the future to keep us around. don't confuse ground speed mini on the approach with econ descent.
be happy, it is just an aeroplane, simple really.
Flidras guys will only call the capt if they believe a multiple of gates have been broken and could have been avoided.
the company only get to see the who's who if the flidras guys believe that the capt did not have a reasonnable enough excuse for his actions or the actions themselves where so bad that it could'nt be avoided.
personnally i don't see the problem provided it is used accordingly.
as for econ sppeds in the descent it is not just easy that fly approx 250kts, i can think of 3 others immediately, we use a cost index of 10, it will help in the future to keep us around. don't confuse ground speed mini on the approach with econ descent.
be happy, it is just an aeroplane, simple really.
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Actually I think he sums it up quite well.
This chap will have been fired either due to one extremly serious breach or a number of other violations. Even then his reaction to correction and any remedial training will have been key.
FLIDRAS is primarily a flight safety tool and easy use it for that purpose. As a company they have a responsibility to ensure their operation is as safe as it can be. If they become aware, through FLIDRAS, that they have a pilot in their midst who is not performing to the required standard then they have a duty to deal with that. After all someone can toe the line for recurrant sims and then gash around for another 6 months. Imagine the consequences if they ignored such data and there was a crash involving said pilot which was caused by the way he flew the aircraft.
Passengers want to arrive safely above all else and I daresay they will be quite pleased to learn that we are monitored on every flight and that the company takes transgressions seriously.
This chap will have been fired either due to one extremly serious breach or a number of other violations. Even then his reaction to correction and any remedial training will have been key.
FLIDRAS is primarily a flight safety tool and easy use it for that purpose. As a company they have a responsibility to ensure their operation is as safe as it can be. If they become aware, through FLIDRAS, that they have a pilot in their midst who is not performing to the required standard then they have a duty to deal with that. After all someone can toe the line for recurrant sims and then gash around for another 6 months. Imagine the consequences if they ignored such data and there was a crash involving said pilot which was caused by the way he flew the aircraft.
Passengers want to arrive safely above all else and I daresay they will be quite pleased to learn that we are monitored on every flight and that the company takes transgressions seriously.
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The company culture in England is somewhat different than other places.
No Sir. You need to slow down, or go around. The former will only cost you a few seconds and save you a few Kgs, and you might just reduce your stress a bit too.
Hear. hear to your first comment, Ranamin, and Ashling and Nicholas49 may have got it more accurately than they realise.
I know the guy concerned, and have done for some 25 years, but it is not our train set, and you have to conform or find somewhere else to work - which he has.
I know the guy concerned, and have done for some 25 years, but it is not our train set, and you have to conform or find somewhere else to work - which he has.
Rananim,
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of not upsetting ATC, most of us are affected by the oil prices today. With the state of a lot of the US Legacy carriers I am surprised you are not all flying around a lot slower. I like you were surprised that flying slower could save that much, but it does.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of not upsetting ATC, most of us are affected by the oil prices today. With the state of a lot of the US Legacy carriers I am surprised you are not all flying around a lot slower. I like you were surprised that flying slower could save that much, but it does.