No Expats in India beyond July 2010
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No Expats in India beyond July 2010
DGCA want to put pressure on all Indian Airlines to hire more Indian F/O´s. Terminate all Expat Pilots who work there for 4 year or 31. July 2010 whatever is EARLIER. How? Not give any validation anymore. Why ? to protect the Indian Pilots who spend lot´s of money getting a CPL and having difficulties to find a job. Indian Airlines are required to submit a report to the DGCA how they induct more Indian and reduce the number of Expats, Captains and First Officers. Some Airlines found it cheaper to hire a Type Rated F/O with experience instead of hiring a Indian Pilot of the street and train him to operate. With the battle for passenger and market shares versus the rising fuel costs not too surprising. Market forces are valid, everywhere on the Globe despite the wishes for regulatory Authorities. No Pilots who operate the planes means no revenue and no profit, all Jobs are lost. For the Expats and the national Pilots in any Country.
Indian DGCA states that about 4.500 Indian Pilots are working together with about 1.000 Expat Pilots and that number has to be reduced in the favour of more Indian Pilots. A operator who want to keep a Expat beyond 31. July 2010 will face severe difficulties from the DGCA on a case by case decision.
From June this year on the DGCA threatened the Airlines with the first step: Not to renew the Validation for foreign F/O´s anymore but the Airlines could plea for some more time but not too much. 4 Months to get a Indian F/O type rated is enough means the DGCA. How much time they think that it takes to upgrade them? Watch the local Newspaper they are watching the issue closely..........
Fly safe and land happy
NG
Indian DGCA states that about 4.500 Indian Pilots are working together with about 1.000 Expat Pilots and that number has to be reduced in the favour of more Indian Pilots. A operator who want to keep a Expat beyond 31. July 2010 will face severe difficulties from the DGCA on a case by case decision.
From June this year on the DGCA threatened the Airlines with the first step: Not to renew the Validation for foreign F/O´s anymore but the Airlines could plea for some more time but not too much. 4 Months to get a Indian F/O type rated is enough means the DGCA. How much time they think that it takes to upgrade them? Watch the local Newspaper they are watching the issue closely..........
Fly safe and land happy
NG
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77.Shailesh,
Based on your comment, next time I am in India and fly with an Indian carrier I will demand to know the PIC's hours and time on type.
I will not fly with an inexperienced crew and I will not let my family fly with an inexperienced crew. I trust my life to the crew and expect them to be professionals, just as I would trust a surgeon operating on me to be suitably qualified.
This is not a race issue (unless you choose to make it one), it is purely about operational safety. By the time a PIC flying an aircraft on which I am a passenger is heading into a monsoon storm at Mumbai or where ever, I expect them to have seen it many times before from the RHS under the guidance of someone who's seen it even more times.
Indonesian airlines (and other countries' airlines) have been banned from the EU due to operational deficiencies and lack of sufficient regulatory oversight; it can happen. Stuffing the place with inexperienced pilots will put those pilots in positions they are not equipped to handle and the consequences are easily foreseeable, and all too painful for those behind the reinforced door and those they leave behind.
Get off your India-vs-the world soap-box, this is not about race, it's about safety.
No one is impugning India's place in the world as an economic or political power - a strong India is good for the developed world just as it's good for Indians - but if India wants to play in the premier league, it has to learn to play by the premier league's rules - ie. opening up and not being so capricious in decision-making - and stop relying on protections available to those in the lower divisions.
Based on your comment, next time I am in India and fly with an Indian carrier I will demand to know the PIC's hours and time on type.
I will not fly with an inexperienced crew and I will not let my family fly with an inexperienced crew. I trust my life to the crew and expect them to be professionals, just as I would trust a surgeon operating on me to be suitably qualified.
This is not a race issue (unless you choose to make it one), it is purely about operational safety. By the time a PIC flying an aircraft on which I am a passenger is heading into a monsoon storm at Mumbai or where ever, I expect them to have seen it many times before from the RHS under the guidance of someone who's seen it even more times.
Indonesian airlines (and other countries' airlines) have been banned from the EU due to operational deficiencies and lack of sufficient regulatory oversight; it can happen. Stuffing the place with inexperienced pilots will put those pilots in positions they are not equipped to handle and the consequences are easily foreseeable, and all too painful for those behind the reinforced door and those they leave behind.
Get off your India-vs-the world soap-box, this is not about race, it's about safety.
No one is impugning India's place in the world as an economic or political power - a strong India is good for the developed world just as it's good for Indians - but if India wants to play in the premier league, it has to learn to play by the premier league's rules - ie. opening up and not being so capricious in decision-making - and stop relying on protections available to those in the lower divisions.
I doubt it will happen... it seems this is a means to show that the DGCA is trying to safeguard the interests of its ever burgeoning ranks of new unemployed CPL holders.
Methinks TD is trying to make it an issue. But remember "flying hours only does not a good pilot make". Why not ask for age and IQ level too? Or maybe marks in the previous refresher?
While I am no great fan of DGCA it doesnt solve the problem by adopting knee jerk reactions.
Methinks TD is trying to make it an issue. But remember "flying hours only does not a good pilot make". Why not ask for age and IQ level too? Or maybe marks in the previous refresher?
While I am no great fan of DGCA it doesnt solve the problem by adopting knee jerk reactions.
Lydia
The reason they are unemployed is that the numbers are too large for the aviation industry to absorb. A little bird told me that there are in the region of 300-400 new CPLs being issued every month! All airlines can on an average absorb about 150 in a year!
There are in the region of 1500 applicants for ten jobs inthe RHS. Alas! The good times are not so good anymore.... Many of those refused are from very influential families who thought they had it made when they went for training.
JB
The reason they are unemployed is that the numbers are too large for the aviation industry to absorb. A little bird told me that there are in the region of 300-400 new CPLs being issued every month! All airlines can on an average absorb about 150 in a year!
There are in the region of 1500 applicants for ten jobs inthe RHS. Alas! The good times are not so good anymore.... Many of those refused are from very influential families who thought they had it made when they went for training.
JB
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Jazbag
So there we have it. The problem is that the training schools are going completely unregulated. It is a cap on the throughput of the training schools that should be initiated. What happens after you get rid of all the expat pilots? Jobs for 1000 (although it should not be, as many expats are captains), and India is still training 6000 Cpls a year. I don't suppose there are people within DGCA that have financial interests in the training schools are there?
You make it even more clear that the DGCA and the government are acting because
You will find that the term sympathy comes between s**t and Syphilis in the dictionary.
So there we have it. The problem is that the training schools are going completely unregulated. It is a cap on the throughput of the training schools that should be initiated. What happens after you get rid of all the expat pilots? Jobs for 1000 (although it should not be, as many expats are captains), and India is still training 6000 Cpls a year. I don't suppose there are people within DGCA that have financial interests in the training schools are there?
You make it even more clear that the DGCA and the government are acting because
Many of those refused are from very influential families who thought they had it made when they went for training.
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Jazbag,
I am in no position to make it an issue, so I won't waste my time or energy.
However it becomes an issue when some clown reckons they can put inexperienced pilots in charge of large capital assets and peoples' lives.
I have no issue with a pilot's age. I do have an issue when they possibly taking charge of things they shouldn't be. I was basically taking issue with specific points raised by an earlier poster (since moved or erased).
I am in no position to make it an issue, so I won't waste my time or energy.
However it becomes an issue when some clown reckons they can put inexperienced pilots in charge of large capital assets and peoples' lives.
I have no issue with a pilot's age. I do have an issue when they possibly taking charge of things they shouldn't be. I was basically taking issue with specific points raised by an earlier poster (since moved or erased).
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Do you guys think these rulings will eventually affect pilots based overseas? I appreciate people would need the right of abode to be based overseas i.e. UK. However if Indian crew are based overseas on a temporary basis would that not remove the need for expats even further?
Lydia
As you said "unregulated".... The CPL students are going overseas mainly in the US, Aus, NZ and Phillipines. The DGCA cannot control who desires to fly and who doesn't. Here it is the media which had a part to play in this and published articles that gave a misleading impression that jobs were available for the taking. I overheard that the DGCA are now trying to advise students not to waste money in aviation.
Add to all this the fuel price escalation and we have a recipe for disaster.
TD
India is not the only country to put a fresh CPL with type rating on the RHS. The same happens in Europe. Being a trainer I assure you that with the current glut of freshers "generally" the brightest are being taken for this task. No airline wants to have a misfit behind the controls. In addition being a CRMI we insist on assertiveness, which today's generation does not lack.
Regarding the expat pilots based abroad it will probably have an effect in the next few years.... So if you get a chance to move to one of the legacy careers.. maybe you should explore it.
JB
As you said "unregulated".... The CPL students are going overseas mainly in the US, Aus, NZ and Phillipines. The DGCA cannot control who desires to fly and who doesn't. Here it is the media which had a part to play in this and published articles that gave a misleading impression that jobs were available for the taking. I overheard that the DGCA are now trying to advise students not to waste money in aviation.
Add to all this the fuel price escalation and we have a recipe for disaster.
TD
India is not the only country to put a fresh CPL with type rating on the RHS. The same happens in Europe. Being a trainer I assure you that with the current glut of freshers "generally" the brightest are being taken for this task. No airline wants to have a misfit behind the controls. In addition being a CRMI we insist on assertiveness, which today's generation does not lack.
Regarding the expat pilots based abroad it will probably have an effect in the next few years.... So if you get a chance to move to one of the legacy careers.. maybe you should explore it.
JB
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Please learn English
So what do u think the Pilots in Abroad have experience from childhood ,I am sorry to say this Are u from an airline or not but everybody learns from basic no one in this world is Top gun & for ur kind information The accident rates & safety u talk about , We have the least accidents in our country & the accidents like 1 or 2 we had was from an Ex-pat who dont know simple English ( intonation's/syllable ) so Please wish When we go to abroad 
we don't what the pilot is talking on the P.A. Please learn English
we don't what the pilot is talking on the P.A. Please learn English
The Bumblebee
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Shailesh,
I second Sleeper its time for you to go back and work on your English a little bit more.
Back to the thread, you are missing the bigger picture. Yes, no one is a born aviator, everyone has to work on their experience. You think getting rid off the expats will solve the problem for you? Most of the expats in India are working as Captain, many of them as TRI/TRE. You have no idea what it takes to become a CA/TRI/TRE. So just to give you a very simple answer, kicking the Expats out is not going to solve your problem. You are looking for a start up job and as it is there are a lot of unemployed ab-initios out there.
So if you want a job study hard, change your attitude, appear for exams and pass it, than you may have a chance. The longer you wait the less chance you have of finding job in India.
Ohh the accident numbers means nothing. Its the accident rates that count. India has less number of accidents but we also have less number of take offs and landings. Just to give you an example the regional airlines I was working for in USA had more planes and pilots than Indigo, Kingifisher, Go, Spice and Sahara put together. Perhaps you can add half of Indian or Jet in the list as well. So less take off and landings usually equate to less accidents.
Good luck with your job search.
DesiPilot
I second Sleeper its time for you to go back and work on your English a little bit more.
Back to the thread, you are missing the bigger picture. Yes, no one is a born aviator, everyone has to work on their experience. You think getting rid off the expats will solve the problem for you? Most of the expats in India are working as Captain, many of them as TRI/TRE. You have no idea what it takes to become a CA/TRI/TRE. So just to give you a very simple answer, kicking the Expats out is not going to solve your problem. You are looking for a start up job and as it is there are a lot of unemployed ab-initios out there.
So if you want a job study hard, change your attitude, appear for exams and pass it, than you may have a chance. The longer you wait the less chance you have of finding job in India.
Ohh the accident numbers means nothing. Its the accident rates that count. India has less number of accidents but we also have less number of take offs and landings. Just to give you an example the regional airlines I was working for in USA had more planes and pilots than Indigo, Kingifisher, Go, Spice and Sahara put together. Perhaps you can add half of Indian or Jet in the list as well. So less take off and landings usually equate to less accidents.
Good luck with your job search.
DesiPilot
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Shailesh
I refer to my previous post and endorse the comments of the other posters, you need to improve your English. If you have an ICAO level 4 ticket now, then i don't know how
you say
As Desipilot stated, that is difficult to quantify with commercial flying rates, however, if you look at the military, whose flying rates can be compared with other military organisations world wide, then India is near the top of the list for accident rates.
I refer to my previous post and endorse the comments of the other posters, you need to improve your English. If you have an ICAO level 4 ticket now, then i don't know how
you say
We have the least accidents in our country
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Yeah yeah shailesh, suppose you're one of the ones that think India's a first world country too
Well, based on my experience - and visits - I wouldn't even rate most of it as 3rd world. Not that I don't enjoy visiting, and the people are very charming. However the country is still in the stoneage........... Get with the beat Bhaggy.
Well, based on my experience - and visits - I wouldn't even rate most of it as 3rd world. Not that I don't enjoy visiting, and the people are very charming. However the country is still in the stoneage........... Get with the beat Bhaggy.
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Well shivamjoshi - guess we could say the same about the many indians in the uk too - kick 'em out and all that. It's ok then as far as you're concerned to work everywhere else on the face of the planet but you don't like expats in india.... Grow up sonny