No Expats in India beyond July 2010
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Expats Vs Indians
In my airline expats get 9 days off every month in addition to time off whereas,I being an Indian get only 3 days of time off after a ten day slip.I wonder if BA or Lufthansa would hire me under such terms and treat their own nationals so shabbily !
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Indeed it is figurof8... Bl00dy nice it is too. However, if the Indians are so keen to come to good old Blighty, then why can't they put up with expats over there??
Mmmm, yep, double standards methinks.... But that's how it works over on the subcontinent. No place for 'bleeding hearts', believe me...
Mmmm, yep, double standards methinks.... But that's how it works over on the subcontinent. No place for 'bleeding hearts', believe me...
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Expats Vs Indians
In my airline expats get 9 days off every month in addition to time off whereas,I being an Indian get only 3 days of time off after a ten day slip.I wonder if BA or Lufthansa would hire me under such terms and treat their own nationals so shabbily !
In my airline expats get 9 days off every month in addition to time off whereas,I being an Indian get only 3 days of time off after a ten day slip.I wonder if BA or Lufthansa would hire me under such terms and treat their own nationals so shabbily !
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Kickin' expats out not the solution
@JazBag, I second your opinion that this is a recipe for disaster.
And DGCA certainly can't control who wants to fly and who doesn't. And I don't see why they want to act godfather to all the Indian CPLs. It isn't their (or the airlines') fault that several thousand 18-yr olds are misguided into the "quick-money" program that promises them a CPL within 5 months.
I know people who have completed their CPL in 3 months from "Straight & Level". Add 2 more months for a 320 rating and you are in the right seat with just 5 months more experience than the businessman in first class who's sipping away his champagne.
They should just give airlines their own time to come up with profits of some sort, so they can then eventually favour Indians over expats once they have enough equally qualified Indians. If there were enough qualified Indians in the first place, then the airlines would certainly have preferred them.
I'm just waiting to see what happens when the corporate sector opens up a bit more in India, there might be more jobs out there then. Unfortunately, the "build up instructor time after CPL" concept doesn't work in India at all.
And DGCA certainly can't control who wants to fly and who doesn't. And I don't see why they want to act godfather to all the Indian CPLs. It isn't their (or the airlines') fault that several thousand 18-yr olds are misguided into the "quick-money" program that promises them a CPL within 5 months.
I know people who have completed their CPL in 3 months from "Straight & Level". Add 2 more months for a 320 rating and you are in the right seat with just 5 months more experience than the businessman in first class who's sipping away his champagne.
They should just give airlines their own time to come up with profits of some sort, so they can then eventually favour Indians over expats once they have enough equally qualified Indians. If there were enough qualified Indians in the first place, then the airlines would certainly have preferred them.
I'm just waiting to see what happens when the corporate sector opens up a bit more in India, there might be more jobs out there then. Unfortunately, the "build up instructor time after CPL" concept doesn't work in India at all.
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.....I'm just waiting to see what happens when the corporate sector opens up a bit more in India, there might be more jobs out there then. Unfortunately, the "build up instructor time after CPL" concept doesn't work in India at all.
but they should understand that it doesn't work that way. It's not as easy as sitting on a desk and fiddling with a laptop, it's much much more than that.
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Be Sure About Your History!!
Simply put - Britain didn't invade india, it bought it (because india sold it). Most importantly we bought it because your leadership at the time would have sold it to Napoleon who would have in turn threatened Britain's interests.
Should i remind you about India's attempts to dominate the malay penisula years a couple of thousand years ago coverting them all to hindu!!
This is a flying forum - if you want to vent - write to the Mumbai times!!
Should i remind you about India's attempts to dominate the malay penisula years a couple of thousand years ago coverting them all to hindu!!
This is a flying forum - if you want to vent - write to the Mumbai times!!
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"I will not fly with an inexperienced crew and I will not let my family fly with an inexperienced crew. I trust my life to the crew and expect them to be professionals, just as I would trust a surgeon operating on me to be suitably qualified".
Well said Taildragger67. My husband (who has flown for a small handful of airlines) would say "If you hear the Captain's name is so-and-so, grab your bag and get off", while my daughter and I sub-loaded here and there. No, not a race issue either, nor airline issue for that matter (these fellows were white men and former colleagues). They simply were not "safe". And some of them had been at the helm for decades.
When I was a Purser for many years, one skipper could not remember my name, despite having flown with him at least twice a week for many years. Each time for him it was like the first time we met. I feigned illness at sign on once when the weather at our destination was absolute rubbish. I wasn't trusting my life with a ditherer. No way.
Well said Taildragger67. My husband (who has flown for a small handful of airlines) would say "If you hear the Captain's name is so-and-so, grab your bag and get off", while my daughter and I sub-loaded here and there. No, not a race issue either, nor airline issue for that matter (these fellows were white men and former colleagues). They simply were not "safe". And some of them had been at the helm for decades.
When I was a Purser for many years, one skipper could not remember my name, despite having flown with him at least twice a week for many years. Each time for him it was like the first time we met. I feigned illness at sign on once when the weather at our destination was absolute rubbish. I wasn't trusting my life with a ditherer. No way.
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There must not be many places in the world where you don't find an Indian working, so for India to close the door on expats can only lead to resentment .
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niceneasy
Well niceneasy;
I didn't think it was ethical for your husband to say don't fly with so and so,nor was it for you to call in sick or whatever just because you thought someone's ability as a pilot is directly proportional to remembering someone's name.
I agree that we have some not so good pilots in the industry,but I don't think that it is appropriate to sum up.
You said that it has nothing to do with race,creed,color what ever you may call it...But again would we say "no problem" it there was no problem at all.
Keep listining to the PA.
I didn't think it was ethical for your husband to say don't fly with so and so,nor was it for you to call in sick or whatever just because you thought someone's ability as a pilot is directly proportional to remembering someone's name.
I agree that we have some not so good pilots in the industry,but I don't think that it is appropriate to sum up.
You said that it has nothing to do with race,creed,color what ever you may call it...But again would we say "no problem" it there was no problem at all.
Keep listining to the PA.
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There's no reason to be un-necessarily emotional over this issue.
Foreign or expat pilots clearly cannot expect it to be their right to fly in India (for Indian operators). Ultimately, it is the Indian authorities that have the final say on this, and their sovereignity.
There seem to be plenty of bright youngsters in India who have the qualification but not the hours for the right seat. Competence and aptitude is not the issue here. These young boys and girls do have to start somewhere to build experience.
If indeed the Indian authorities stick to this 2010 deadline, it gives plenty of time to operators to hire enough amount of relatively inexperienced pilots and bring them upto required hours. This can be done without compromising the safety.
India is not an Emirate, and one cannot expect flying jobs to be pledged to expats because Indians would certainly desire the jobs for their own billion or more citizens!
Foreign or expat pilots clearly cannot expect it to be their right to fly in India (for Indian operators). Ultimately, it is the Indian authorities that have the final say on this, and their sovereignity.
There seem to be plenty of bright youngsters in India who have the qualification but not the hours for the right seat. Competence and aptitude is not the issue here. These young boys and girls do have to start somewhere to build experience.
If indeed the Indian authorities stick to this 2010 deadline, it gives plenty of time to operators to hire enough amount of relatively inexperienced pilots and bring them upto required hours. This can be done without compromising the safety.
India is not an Emirate, and one cannot expect flying jobs to be pledged to expats because Indians would certainly desire the jobs for their own billion or more citizens!
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"you'll have to be born in a blood thirsty imperialist country so as to be able to boast about your country's status. How can India match the disgusting war mongering posture of the so called "first world countries?" She cannot. Therefore she has been condemned to be worse than a third world country. So, better prod your government to invade a peaceful and prosperous country and make your country rich with dirty money just like Britain did to India some 250 years ago and like US has done to Iraq recently."
Haven't India and Pakistan been at war for decades over who "owns" a piece of land?
I met a few Indian guys out in the States who were going through their CPL training. They were all from influential families, which is where these new rules are coming from. However, the people that have set up the airlines are hugely influential too....money talks, as they say. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of compromise was reached
Haven't India and Pakistan been at war for decades over who "owns" a piece of land?
I met a few Indian guys out in the States who were going through their CPL training. They were all from influential families, which is where these new rules are coming from. However, the people that have set up the airlines are hugely influential too....money talks, as they say. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of compromise was reached
GSTAL
Where did u learn your history from? Hope your technical knowledge is better than that!
Hinduism and Buddhism never spread due to any invasion or annexation. It was because international students learned the philosophies or ways of life from world famous Universities like Pataliputra etc and carried it back with them... Much like western countries practise and preach yoga and ISKON in todays era. To give it a level of authenticity they quote Hindu gurus... If you think like a typical westerner than you may call this"world domination"
But apologies I do not wish to sidetrack the main issue here....
Where did u learn your history from? Hope your technical knowledge is better than that!
Hinduism and Buddhism never spread due to any invasion or annexation. It was because international students learned the philosophies or ways of life from world famous Universities like Pataliputra etc and carried it back with them... Much like western countries practise and preach yoga and ISKON in todays era. To give it a level of authenticity they quote Hindu gurus... If you think like a typical westerner than you may call this"world domination"
But apologies I do not wish to sidetrack the main issue here....
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vrlsktry
Your comments regarding the "bright youngster supply in India" and "required experience can be gained " is by someone who obviously never sat in the LH seat of a commercial airliner.
The world's aviation environment is not the place to resort to nationalism at the expense of safety and common sense.
If you truly want to keep this subject unemotional - put the bulls**t to rest and admit the truth - India came to the party very late and unless they want to find themselves where Korea found itself in the 90's, they had better crawl before they walk before they run.
Your comments regarding the "bright youngster supply in India" and "required experience can be gained " is by someone who obviously never sat in the LH seat of a commercial airliner.
The world's aviation environment is not the place to resort to nationalism at the expense of safety and common sense.
If you truly want to keep this subject unemotional - put the bulls**t to rest and admit the truth - India came to the party very late and unless they want to find themselves where Korea found itself in the 90's, they had better crawl before they walk before they run.
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Well Al, I am flattered that you joined PPRUNE to reply to my post. When hubby tells me "don't fly with so and so", he is saying that he doesn't want his wife and kid on a plane on a dark, cold, winter night, over water with cr@p weather and/or serious mechanical problem that is flown by a goose. And yes, they are out there. And re: my unethical nature, no, and perhaps I should have elaborated, this guy dithered at the R1 door as to whether he should turn left or right to get to the flight deck, five minutes to decide on chicken or fish and HE WAS ASLEEP when the OTHER PILOT was on controlled rest - really quite past it. And no, I didn't report him or his butt would have been out the door. HIS f/o offsiders would constantly roll their eyes at his "work" and say that they were "flying solo" when right handing this guy. So excuse me for believing in a little self preservation.
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Pathetic Arguments
I can't believe the tone of this thread. People are really missing the point. It's not about kicking out expat pilots from India because of Xenophobia - India is and always has been one of the most diverse countries in the World, home to people of all races and religious beliefs. It is simple economics - the Indian govt. is trying to focus on employing it's citizens rather than paying through the nose for foreigners.
Maybe they are not going about it the right way, but the reasons behind this decision have been misinterpreted on this thread.
Why bash Indians for travelling the World and making other countries their home? Haven't millions of Westerners had this privilege for hundreds of years? Perhaps people resent the fact that India is an emerging nation with a bright future.
A couple of facts for info:
1. Indian doctors who want to work in the UK can only be considered for a job if no other EU applicant can fill the slot, even if they are more qualified/suitable for the job. This happened overnight. Vis-a-vis expat Pilots in India, at least there is some discussion and a flexible deadline.
2. The India-Pakistan wars are a direct result of the British Raj, as no boundaries were agreed upon on the 15th Aug 1947 when India gained independence.
Maybe we can have a more positive discussion by suggesting a way forward. If expat pilots really love India and want to stay long term, why not become a citizen? Then you won't have to worry about being kicked out.
Maybe they are not going about it the right way, but the reasons behind this decision have been misinterpreted on this thread.
Why bash Indians for travelling the World and making other countries their home? Haven't millions of Westerners had this privilege for hundreds of years? Perhaps people resent the fact that India is an emerging nation with a bright future.
A couple of facts for info:
1. Indian doctors who want to work in the UK can only be considered for a job if no other EU applicant can fill the slot, even if they are more qualified/suitable for the job. This happened overnight. Vis-a-vis expat Pilots in India, at least there is some discussion and a flexible deadline.
2. The India-Pakistan wars are a direct result of the British Raj, as no boundaries were agreed upon on the 15th Aug 1947 when India gained independence.
Maybe we can have a more positive discussion by suggesting a way forward. If expat pilots really love India and want to stay long term, why not become a citizen? Then you won't have to worry about being kicked out.
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The Indo-Pakistan wars have been going on, under various names, since the 1300's when the Muslim Sultans of Kashmir persecuted the Hindus, right up to the 1800's when Sihk armies invaded and conquered Kashmir. Trying to blame it on the debarkle of 1947 isn't entirely accurate! My late grandfather was born in India and witnessed first hand the problems caused in 1947.
Anyway, the Indian Government is doing what any Government would do, trying to protect it's own workforce & therefore economy. However, it could have gone about it a different way, as the present course of action could bite them on the arse when flights are cancelled or worse!
Anyway, the Indian Government is doing what any Government would do, trying to protect it's own workforce & therefore economy. However, it could have gone about it a different way, as the present course of action could bite them on the arse when flights are cancelled or worse!