Ryanair Very Low Fuel Landing
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Pictures from a tech log
? Uh huh. Whose tech log? but seriously folks, if this tale is true, I sure would like to know the circumsances behind the crew's decision not to divert to their alternate when bingo fuel level was reached.
? Uh huh. Whose tech log? but seriously folks, if this tale is true, I sure would like to know the circumsances behind the crew's decision not to divert to their alternate when bingo fuel level was reached.
de minimus non curat lex
Are there any "incentives" to arrive with a low..ish [alleged] fuel state ?
Landing below final fuel reserve always produces an interesting ASR.
They are always worth reading. I am sure there is a perfectly good reason why this happened
I think LHR suffered a few years back from a number of low fuel states on arrival from a certain carrier's longhaul flights from the far east.
Landing below final fuel reserve always produces an interesting ASR.
They are always worth reading. I am sure there is a perfectly good reason why this happened
I think LHR suffered a few years back from a number of low fuel states on arrival from a certain carrier's longhaul flights from the far east.
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I sure would like to know the circumsances behind the crew's decision not to divert to their alternate when bingo fuel level was reached.
If the delay was due to ATC congestion the question is why didn't they declare an emergency.
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I'm not on the Boeing, BUT how can you say that 1800 kg it min fuel? Does that not depend on how far away your alt is, or IF you have an alternate? I'm not a big RYR fan , but this seems to be another one of those situations where we have no facts and people are jumping the gun....
CP
CP
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r.j
How do you arrive at 1800kgs for the -800 NG ??
FFR+ Alt fuel = CMR
Depending upon the flying time, and landing weight to No.1 div, your CMR could be under 1.8
Ryanair no.1 div from Prestwick is Glasgow. 23nm as the crow flies. Depending upon actual routing, flying time could be less than 10 minutes if landing on rw 05.
Having said that, anything under 2.0 MT and still airborne is likely to concentrate the mind !!
How do you arrive at 1800kgs for the -800 NG ??
FFR+ Alt fuel = CMR
Depending upon the flying time, and landing weight to No.1 div, your CMR could be under 1.8
Ryanair no.1 div from Prestwick is Glasgow. 23nm as the crow flies. Depending upon actual routing, flying time could be less than 10 minutes if landing on rw 05.
Having said that, anything under 2.0 MT and still airborne is likely to concentrate the mind !!
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I'm not on the Boeing, BUT how can you say that 1800 kg it min fuel
[Edit - This is from my companies QRH for the NG (specifically 907 kg in a main tank), so I guess there are different options thnat you can go for]
Last edited by A Very Civil Pilot; 3rd Jun 2008 at 18:36. Reason: clarification
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Actually, the 907 kg (2000lbs each main tank) low fuel warning is a figure that came about for ETOPS certification for the NG, that's the understanding in my company anyway. I certainly know of 737NGs where the low fuel warning triggers at 1000lbs in the main tank, not sure about the Ryanair ones, so stating that 900kg in each main tank is into the NNC is not strictly true.
Edited for kakatoa, cheers, doh!
Edited for kakatoa, cheers, doh!
Last edited by flying headbutt; 3rd Jun 2008 at 20:08. Reason: Can't do math!
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It's totally not true. Manufacturing fictitious figures like 1800 kg minimum 737 is nonsense. The fact it sets off a Low Fuel Warning is nothing to do with minimum figures- it just makes the digits go a pretty yellow colour. The usual rules are 'Pan' if you are likely to go below minimum reserve which is usually 30 minutes, and 'Mayday' if you are going to go below.
captjns- you show a touching reliance on 'diverting will make it all OK'. In several experiences of diverting, it often ends up being a crisis of its own. Sometimes it's better to hang on to what you have rather than open a door to another houseful of problems!
captjns- you show a touching reliance on 'diverting will make it all OK'. In several experiences of diverting, it often ends up being a crisis of its own. Sometimes it's better to hang on to what you have rather than open a door to another houseful of problems!
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That's interesting, i only know the 1000lbs figure for the low fuel warning as well, and none of our NGs flies ETOPS nor do we plan to fly ETOPS with them. But lowest i had for total reserve fuel so far was 1.900 kg and that was for a diversion from TXL to SXF (just a short hop over berlin). We expect to get a low fuel warning though when we have to use diversion fuel, final reserve is usually way below the low fuel warning threshold.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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CMRs of 1600/1700kg are by no means unusual - it depends on div distance and landing weight. Landing with that WILL have the 'yellow' fuel readings and is perfectly safe and 'legal'.
Denti - I believe ALL NGs leave Boeing field 'ETOPS capable' so that is why. I assume there is a software option to change it, but why bother?
Another stunning FIRST APPEARANCE by a poster
. There may be a story, but I doubt it.
EDIT: Crossed with jock there! 800kgs a side may well be a total 'non-event', but 800kgs total, of course.............................
Denti - I believe ALL NGs leave Boeing field 'ETOPS capable' so that is why. I assume there is a software option to change it, but why bother?
Another stunning FIRST APPEARANCE by a poster
. There may be a story, but I doubt it.EDIT: Crossed with jock there! 800kgs a side may well be a total 'non-event', but 800kgs total, of course.............................
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Your final reserve fuel + diversion fuel (or flight plan fuel without an alternate) may be less than 1800 kgs on a NG, BUT you are then flying with a FUEL LOW caution and have to follow the QRH procedure for that. Look it up. It does restrict the way you fly the aircraft.
While I might get a FUEL LOW caution during a diversion, I always carry enough fuel so I land at my destination with at leat 1800 kgs during normal operations. That's airmanship. To me.
While I might get a FUEL LOW caution during a diversion, I always carry enough fuel so I land at my destination with at leat 1800 kgs during normal operations. That's airmanship. To me.
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Manadasytem and some others
Read the above posts re updated low fuel warning levels on the NG. easyJet are modifying their fleet so the warning comes on when one one main tank hits 453kg. I daresay other operators are the same or have been for some time.
Not all the fleet is modifyied yet so the CFPs still contain extra fuel to cater for low CNRs (below 1814) which will allow you to land above 1814kg. Once the fleet is modifyed that extra fuel will disapear as I daresay you will never find a CNR less than 907!!
You are quite right that if you get a low fuel warning you should run the QRH. Thats why easyJet allowed for extra fuel to prevent this as it was felt crews should not be dispatching into a situation were they would probably have to run a non normal checklist. That still has little direct bearing over whether you declare an emergency though (although you could if you wished to) as its generaly understood that a PAN PAN PAN with low fuel means you may land below CNR and a MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY with low fuel means you will land below final reserve.
Diverting when you reach CNR is a choice not a necessity. You may have an EAT a few minutes away and the weather is fine so you would land with more fuel in the tanks than if you divert. In other circumstances diverting would be the better choice. You have to weigh up all the factors and make your decision.
Read the above posts re updated low fuel warning levels on the NG. easyJet are modifying their fleet so the warning comes on when one one main tank hits 453kg. I daresay other operators are the same or have been for some time.
Not all the fleet is modifyied yet so the CFPs still contain extra fuel to cater for low CNRs (below 1814) which will allow you to land above 1814kg. Once the fleet is modifyed that extra fuel will disapear as I daresay you will never find a CNR less than 907!!
You are quite right that if you get a low fuel warning you should run the QRH. Thats why easyJet allowed for extra fuel to prevent this as it was felt crews should not be dispatching into a situation were they would probably have to run a non normal checklist. That still has little direct bearing over whether you declare an emergency though (although you could if you wished to) as its generaly understood that a PAN PAN PAN with low fuel means you may land below CNR and a MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY with low fuel means you will land below final reserve.
Diverting when you reach CNR is a choice not a necessity. You may have an EAT a few minutes away and the weather is fine so you would land with more fuel in the tanks than if you divert. In other circumstances diverting would be the better choice. You have to weigh up all the factors and make your decision.