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TACA aircraft crashed in Honduras

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TACA aircraft crashed in Honduras

Old 30th May 2008, 22:31
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Old 30th May 2008, 22:35
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View video

Click below for the video:
http://www.latribun a.hn/data/ webmaster/ multimedia/ videosnews/ index2.html
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Old 30th May 2008, 23:03
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The aircraft appears to have overrun in the 01 direction, i.e. beyond the 19 threshold. If so, according to the reported wind the landing might have involved a tailwind component. In addition, it is most likely that the runway was wet.
Although the runway is listed as having an asphalt surface, here is no immediate information on its condition, grooving, or likelihood of rubber deposits. However, the conditions seem to indicate increasing risk when landing on a short (limiting?) runway.

Even if this speculative view proves to be incorrect, it would be timely to review some of the issues in accidents similar to this:-

Managing the threats during approach and landing.
AC 91-79 Runway Overrun Prevention.
Running out of runway.
Safety aspects of aircraft performance on wet and contaminated runways.
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Old 30th May 2008, 23:23
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Unhappy

Hi,

Pic in M609 post scare me
The plane had crushed aerial power lines...
They are so lucky it was not a fire start.
Sad end for some anyway.

RIP

Cheers.
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Old 30th May 2008, 23:30
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PEI (prince edwards island?)

I think your observation about a tail wind landing is correct. thank you for helping us all with the runway orientation of this unusual airport.

An EMAS system would have helped here, as in Sao Paulo.
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Old 30th May 2008, 23:32
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Not exactly an ILS in Schiphol ... here

Last edited by CONF iture; 31st May 2008 at 02:55.
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Old 30th May 2008, 23:45
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what type of approaches are available to this runway?
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Old 31st May 2008, 00:00
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Non-precision only, VOR and NBD if memory serves me right
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Old 31st May 2008, 01:23
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Approaches and maps for MHTG (Toncontin)

http://www.cocesna. org/aip_ca/ mhtg.htm

MHTG - TONCONTÍN Internacional


AD 2.1 AERÓDROMOS / MHTG
MHTG AD 2.1 1.- Plano de Aeródromo2.- Plano de Obstáculos de Aeródromo Tipo A3.- Carta de Area TEGUCIGALPA4.- Carta de Aproximacion por Instrumentos VOR DME RWY 025.- Carta de Aproximacion por Instrumentos VOR DME RWY 20
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Old 31st May 2008, 01:33
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Photo of the runway at Toncontin

The runway at Toncontin is surrounded by mountains, and is extremely short. Look at the TACA airplane crawling on the approach (left corner below in the photo), seems a steep descent, even when visual, imagine landing in the middle of the runway as has been expressed by witnesses.


Last edited by kwick; 31st May 2008 at 02:05.
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Old 31st May 2008, 01:52
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With respect to those who have and will yet remind us of the Congonhas TAM crash, so far the similarities are only that both have a steep drop-off at either end, as do runways gradually lengthened in many other places to accommodate larger aircraft. Tegucigalpa has more in the way of terrain restrictions than Congonhas.
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Old 31st May 2008, 01:57
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Caution when flight planning, use Palmerola

It is now confirmed that aircraft up to 42 passengers will be the only ones using Toncontin because of the short runway. From now on, heavier aircraft operations than those referred with destination/departure Tegucigalpa will be performed from Palmerola, where a military base is located.

Coronel Enrique Soto Cano AB (XPL) Honduras
Airport Code : XPL
Airport Name : Coronel Enrique Soto Cano AB
Runway Length : 8008 ft.
Runway Elevation : 2061 ft.
City : Comayagua
Country : Honduras
Country Abbrev. : HN
Airport Guide : Unavailable
Longitude : 87° 37’ 16” W
Latitude : 14° 22’ 57” N
World Area Code : 131
GMT Offset : -6.0
Telephone : Unknown
Fax : Unknown
Email : Unknown
Website : Unknown

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Old 31st May 2008, 02:16
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Is it normal for the speedbrakes to retract in a situation like this? and I see 1 spoiler panel up?

With the engines off there is no hydraulic power, spoilers are deployed with hydraulic power, so they should be stowed. As for the one spoiler that is partially deployed there could be any number of reasions with damage to the input system the most likely.
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Old 31st May 2008, 02:17
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Toncontin airport charts

Now back to analize the crash scene, these are the charts for MHTG - TONCONTÍN Internacional
1- Airport diagram, 2- Airport obstacles, 3- Tegucigalpa area chart, 4- VOR/DME Rwy 02, 5- VOR/DME Rwy 20.
Got them from http://www.cocesna. org/aip_ca/ mhtg.htm

MHTG - TONCONTÍN Internacional

AD 2.1 AERÓDROMOS / MHTG
MHTG AD 2.1 1.- Plano de Aeródromo2.- Plano de Obstáculos de Aeródromo Tipo A3.- Carta de Area TEGUCIGALPA4.- Carta de Aproximacion por Instrumentos VOR DME RWY 025.- Carta de Aproximacion por Instrumentos VOR DME RWY 20
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Old 31st May 2008, 02:22
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This aircraft is landing the opposite direction on rwy 20. He looks fine considering it is a telephoto lense making it appear high. From the north landing on this runway you can do a normal 3 degree glide slope so it is a non event. The other way on 02 is much more challenging. Not that hard but little margin for error.
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Old 31st May 2008, 02:37
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I hope closing TGU to large commercial aircraft is not true. The only airline that has had problems there in the last decade is Taca. They refuse to go around for some reason when they know they will land long. AA and Continental have strict rules on going around if they go beyond the 700 ft touchdown zone. Taca had an incident in another A320 about 9 years ago when they almost slid off that same cliff. When I landed my 757 there they were cocked 140 degrees to the left in the ditch between the runway and taxiway to not go off the cliff that time. Just close the TGU airport to Taca until they agree to touch down on the touchdown zone. The last report I read on the first mishap was the captain said he realized the autobrakes were not working about 500 meters from the end????? I found that in the accident files many years ago. I know Airbus pilots put a lot of faith in their automation but where does it end?
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Old 31st May 2008, 03:11
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Really sorry for the bad news, but president Zelaya confirmed on an interview with CNN the move of bigger airplanes to Palmerola. That decision includes taking TACA, American and COPA there. How they will do it from one day to the other?, I do not know. Enclosed below is a copy of the news, in spanish, and this is a link to the approach under VFR, imagine that in IFR. http://youtube.com/watch?v=iAxAso8xSo0&feature=related


Presidente Zelaya anuncia uso de aeropuerto de Palmerola para aviación comercial
14:52 30 Mayo 2008



Autor del articulo: Proceso Digital

» Mas noticias
Gobierno anuncia que ocupará Palmerola para aviación comercial; EEUU dice que retirará su equipo de la base aérea Tegucigalpa - El Gobierno el presidente Manuel Zelaya Rosales determinó ésta tarde utilizar la base aérea de Palmerola como principal aeropuerto en la zona central de Honduras mientras que el embajador estadounidense en Tegucigalpa, Charles Ford, dijo que su país retirará su equipo de inmediato sí esta determinación se materializa.
A cinco aumenta el número de víctimas por accidente de avión de TACA en Toncontín Tegucigalpa - Al menos cinco personas, una de ellas el presidente del BCIE, Harry Brautigam, murieron hoy en el accidente del avión de Taca que se salió de la pista del aeropuerto internacional de Toncontín, en Tegucigalpa, informaron fuentes del Cuerpo de Bombero.



Tegucigalpa – El presidente de Honduras, Manuel Zelaya, anunció hoy el uso de las instalaciones del aeropuerto de Palmerola, en Comayagua, para uso de la aviación comercial.


El anuncio lo hizo en una entrevista con la cadena internacional de noticias CNN.
“Exactamente, estamos convocando a los ministros del ramo en este momento para tomar una decisión que hace muchos años se hubiera tomado en el país, pero que ahora se hace urgente por la calamidad que ha sucedido”, dijo tras lamentar el accidente en el que falleció el presidente del BCIE, Harry Brautigam.
“Hoy mismo se van a hacer todas las diligencias para que los aviones de gran tamaño que están aterrizando en Toncontin que se ven siempre en este tipo de situaciones difíciles que ocurren no por la ubicación ni el tamaño de la pista, sino porque Tegucigalpa está colocada en una cuenca hidrográfica llena de cerros y de montañas, el problema nunca ha sido la pista, el problema es la aproximación a la pista, siempre se hace con mucha pericia…”, declaró.
Cuando le preguntaron que si se trataba de sacar de Toncontín a todas las aerolíneas importantes incluyendo Taca, American Airlines y Copa, respondió que “así es”.
Dijo que es una decisión en la que “hay que involucrar a las personalidades que realmente están manejando las diferentes áreas, y el Gobierno de la república de Honduras va a tomar esa decisión en los próximos minutos”.
La idea de convertir Palmerola en aeropuerto comercial, no es nueva, pero tampoco ha logrado concretarse a pesar de las intenciones de las autoridades.
En Palmerola funciona desde hace años una base militar de los Estados Unidos.
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Old 31st May 2008, 04:06
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I just emailed my friend managing our operation at TGU and he said the new captain landed in the touchdown zone so please take the long landing assumption I just made for what it was, careless assessment of an unknown cause. I have landed there over 500 times with no problem with runway length. If the pilot touched down, as my friend stated, in the touchdown zone then the Airbus autobrakes and spoilers should have brought it to a full stop with plenty of margin, even with the small tail wind. Why didn't it?
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Old 31st May 2008, 04:37
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I’m a bit confused. I just looked at the approach plates for both 02 and 20 at Toncontin (Jeppesen 2006 vintage). Both show straight-in approaches. 02 flies 198 from the VOR descending from 9000 to a procedure turn at 8,000 with an 8 mile final heading 018. Yet, if you look at the You Tube video’s they show aircraft making a 90 degree left turn to a very short final when using 02. Can those who have piloted aircraft into the airport clarify this for me please?

Last edited by Xeque; 31st May 2008 at 06:22. Reason: sorry final approach 018 not 118 - typo
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Old 31st May 2008, 04:40
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