BALPA withdraw from Open Skies Court Case
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Right again.
The really troubling point is that BALPA seem not to realise, or be able to accept it. Glad I'm not a member, but I suspect the whole industry will come to see this as a watershed, and not one favourable to Airline Pilots.
The really troubling point is that BALPA seem not to realise, or be able to accept it. Glad I'm not a member, but I suspect the whole industry will come to see this as a watershed, and not one favourable to Airline Pilots.
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I think I probably do. More than 9.5G on my boy's toy is, however more than 1g on a normal working day tends to upset the punters. But then again I just don't stick my fingers in my ears if I don't like or agree with what somebody else is saying. Life's too short for stress.
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Off goes 411a again! Wow - have you no shame mate?!
We established in a previous correspondence that you a) do not support the relaxation of US airline foreign ownership restrictions limiting foreign ownership of a US airline to less than 25% of the shares. These rules severely restrict the chance that US pilot jobs will be offshored in the way that Open Lies seeks to do to UK pilot jobs - so you are inconsistent, AND, b) we established through previous postings that you made your career in a carrier domiciled in a way that allowed you to earn the significant money that you say they paid you, free of tax; you even crowed about it.
Now point a) makes you inconsistent, as I say, and point b) makes you a hypocrite, seeing that you express, in your multitudinous postings, the view that you believe no one else is entitled to earn a professional living from professional aviation, (except you).
Its easy to see why people stick you on an ignore list with views like yours.
I re-iterate my view. WW will lose and the off-shoring of UK pilot work that he seeks will not succeed.
We established in a previous correspondence that you a) do not support the relaxation of US airline foreign ownership restrictions limiting foreign ownership of a US airline to less than 25% of the shares. These rules severely restrict the chance that US pilot jobs will be offshored in the way that Open Lies seeks to do to UK pilot jobs - so you are inconsistent, AND, b) we established through previous postings that you made your career in a carrier domiciled in a way that allowed you to earn the significant money that you say they paid you, free of tax; you even crowed about it.
Now point a) makes you inconsistent, as I say, and point b) makes you a hypocrite, seeing that you express, in your multitudinous postings, the view that you believe no one else is entitled to earn a professional living from professional aviation, (except you).
Its easy to see why people stick you on an ignore list with views like yours.
I re-iterate my view. WW will lose and the off-shoring of UK pilot work that he seeks will not succeed.
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Wrong, ShortfinalFred, a few less enlightened folks simply cannot see the airline forest for the trees, and as a result, are left waiting at the train station long after the last express has departed.
BALPA is amongst these folks, and it ain't likely to change.
A pilot union does not dictate to airline management.
Not ever.
Just look at BALPA now.
They can't even pay a reasonable pension to their employees.
Bankrupt ideas, in more ways than one.
I simply state the obvious...like it or not.
Now, least you think I'm one-sided, I don't think much of American pilot unions either...ALPA, APA, etc.
In these cases, the US pilots unions have proven time and again that, they are out to enrich themselves, at the expense of the pilot employees they purport to represent.
BALPA is amongst these folks, and it ain't likely to change.
A pilot union does not dictate to airline management.
Not ever.
Just look at BALPA now.
They can't even pay a reasonable pension to their employees.
Bankrupt ideas, in more ways than one.
I simply state the obvious...like it or not.
Now, least you think I'm one-sided, I don't think much of American pilot unions either...ALPA, APA, etc.
In these cases, the US pilots unions have proven time and again that, they are out to enrich themselves, at the expense of the pilot employees they purport to represent.
Last edited by 411A; 9th Jun 2008 at 02:01.
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OK 411a, do I take it then that you oppose the principle of the right of a democratically elected trade union to represent its members in negotiation with a companies management?
What exactly is the "wood for the trees" that we dont see in the airline world?
What evidence do you have that BALPA, in this case, has ever acted to enrich itself at its members expense? I know of no BA BALPA official who has made a personal financial gain through being a representative.
Do you approve of the kind of airline management that all but destroyed Continental Airlines in the past, to give but one example?
Do you believe that employees have any rights at all in the workplace? If yes, then what rights?
What exactly is the "wood for the trees" that we dont see in the airline world?
What evidence do you have that BALPA, in this case, has ever acted to enrich itself at its members expense? I know of no BA BALPA official who has made a personal financial gain through being a representative.
Do you approve of the kind of airline management that all but destroyed Continental Airlines in the past, to give but one example?
Do you believe that employees have any rights at all in the workplace? If yes, then what rights?
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OK 411a, do I take it then that you oppose the principle of the right of a democratically elected trade union to represent its members in negotiation with a companies management?
What exactly is the "wood for the trees" that we dont see in the airline world?
Now, of course, the AA pilots feel this is justified due to the 'salary givebacks' that they agreed to earlier, however I would maintain that, considering the economic circumstances today, that 53% is totally unrealistic.
15% OK, 53%...out of the question.
What evidence do you have that BALPA, in this case, has ever acted to enrich itself at its members expense? I know of no BA BALPA official who has made a personal financial gain through being a representative.
Nothing there in my statement about BALPA in this regard.
As regards Continental, clearly you know very little about the situation..IE; how Continental, after Robert Six passed away, had their collective plate cleaned by UAL...until one guy came along, reorganized the company, and made it into one of the more stable carriers in America (with a considerable amount of cash, as well).
Yes, Lorenzo is vilified by unionized pilots today.
However, if it had not been for Lorenzo's efforts, there would not even be a Continental.
Even ALPA must agree, as they accepted all their previous members back into the fold.
As for what pilots are entitled to...they are entitled to reasonable pay and conditions, but they are most definitely NOT entitled to tell the company how to run the business, where to fly, how much to charge for a ticket...nor anything else, whether pilots think they have a right or not.
BALPA thought otherwise, and was slapped down by the legal process, for want of ready cash.
Get over it, and stick with flying the airplane, not trying to manage the company.
Last edited by 411A; 9th Jun 2008 at 16:34.
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Pilots = Individuals with good motor skills and a reasonable intellect.
Given the flat promotion structure and the somewhat 'Hollywood' aura surrounding the job, most pilots soon think they know more about everyone else's job, from the CEO downwards that the incumbents of those jobs.
They then tend to believe they are the most important people in the Airline, something to do with the 'front-of-the-aeroplane' syndrome, not to mention the uniform.
Inevitably, they clash with the professional businessmen and accountants who actually run the business, NB BUSINESS.
Given that BALPA is a union, it behaves like a union, (even though most pilots feel themselves above the likes of the GMB or the TUC) and equally inevitably the union loses or the firm goes bust. Now factor in high oil prices and green political agendae - there was more chance of Scargill winning his miners' strike than there is of BALPA winning a Porsche Picket Line duel.
Sad - but true.
Given the flat promotion structure and the somewhat 'Hollywood' aura surrounding the job, most pilots soon think they know more about everyone else's job, from the CEO downwards that the incumbents of those jobs.
They then tend to believe they are the most important people in the Airline, something to do with the 'front-of-the-aeroplane' syndrome, not to mention the uniform.
Inevitably, they clash with the professional businessmen and accountants who actually run the business, NB BUSINESS.
Given that BALPA is a union, it behaves like a union, (even though most pilots feel themselves above the likes of the GMB or the TUC) and equally inevitably the union loses or the firm goes bust. Now factor in high oil prices and green political agendae - there was more chance of Scargill winning his miners' strike than there is of BALPA winning a Porsche Picket Line duel.
Sad - but true.
