Runway closed at LHR???
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Ethiopian Airlines, burst tyre on landing according to BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7402766.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7402766.stm
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Thanks for the links. funny how the airport spokesman/woman said that there would be no knowck on effect to other flights yet BA have already announced the cancellation of quite a few shorthaul services later today!
Still the worlds favourite airline then lol
EagleStar
Still the worlds favourite airline then lol
EagleStar
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Forgive me if I'm being ignorant or just plain dumb, but... plane lands, blows tyre, obviously cannot taxi to stand. (Why) is it not possible to just quickly tow it of the runway within 15-30' or so, and the rwy being checked for rubber parts in the meanwhile?
Why does this have to take soooo long??
Why does this have to take soooo long??
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At a guess, firstly, once (a) the immediate dangers are over (fire service inspections etc) you have to (b) get in contact with Ethiopians handling agent
to arrange for engineers and a tug. Subject to immediate availability of those resources, I would imagine that (a) + (b) would be 20 minutes minimum.
There would then require to be (c) an engineering inspection to determine what actions if any are required before towing - may be necessary to (d) change wheel(s). (c) + (d) could take a further 5 to 40 minutes - subject to wheel availability.
Then you have the towing clear and final inspection -another 10 minutes. I would imagine a minumum runway closure of 35 minutes, possibly up to an hour depending on extent of problem.
All imho ....
to arrange for engineers and a tug. Subject to immediate availability of those resources, I would imagine that (a) + (b) would be 20 minutes minimum.
There would then require to be (c) an engineering inspection to determine what actions if any are required before towing - may be necessary to (d) change wheel(s). (c) + (d) could take a further 5 to 40 minutes - subject to wheel availability.
Then you have the towing clear and final inspection -another 10 minutes. I would imagine a minumum runway closure of 35 minutes, possibly up to an hour depending on extent of problem.
All imho ....
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And why do BA feel the need to cancel so many shorthaul flights?
If there are inbound delays of one hour, then all the inbounds land an hour late. Maybe get to stand 90 minutes late after waiting for the outbound to vacate the stand......the next outbound sector that a/c is operating then departs 90 mins late, and so on. There will come a point that BA will not be able to fit all their flights into the day, before the night noise period. Better to cancel early in the day and re-arrange and re-schedule to be in a relatively good position come nightfall.
Paxing All Over The World
They canx short haul because it causes less problems (relatively!) than diverting long hauls that are already 75% of the way through their flight time.
Secondly, the canx a lot because it give mores time to arrange alternatives for the pax. BA have to presume that the closure will be an hour and may be longer. If they canx two and a five minutes later a couple more and then a couple more - pax would say that they are not being given enough advance warning. Better to announce, say, ten cancellations and then maybe reinstate two.
Secondly, the canx a lot because it give mores time to arrange alternatives for the pax. BA have to presume that the closure will be an hour and may be longer. If they canx two and a five minutes later a couple more and then a couple more - pax would say that they are not being given enough advance warning. Better to announce, say, ten cancellations and then maybe reinstate two.
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BA's policy in the event of any disruption at LHR is to cancel , particularly short haul ,flights for its operational convenience. As result they have become the worst choice airline to book with on such a day. The sheer numbers of their passengers make it impossible for them to do much for the passengers on the cancelled flights other than offer compensation or refer them back to their pcs to try to make new bookings. The predominance of e-tickets and lack of manual systems or agreements to pass passengers on to other airlines means that they can not just send them over to LH, AF etc even when these have empty seats. The days of manual systems were very customer friendly in comparaison.
The root of their problem is their failure to secure Union agreement for pilots (other than on the first transit of the day) and cabin crew to treat LHR as just another transit airport so the crews have (different) minimum base turnaround times so that they can come off the aircraft, go and have a coffee and a bun, ring Mum or whatever. Hence the aircraft, pilots and cabin crew are all rostered separately through LHR and do not stay together for their complete shift as do most and especially Easyjet and Ryan whose shorthaul systemwide punctuality knocks the socks off BA. Hence once inbound delays start happening the whole programme comes unstuck for the rest of the day and the cancellations roll in. Domestics seem to take the worst hit, on the basis that there are alternatives, highly inconvenient and impractical though they may be. The whole situation is a disaster and unique to BA at LHR but solving it appears to be a low priority. The issue was raised recently in the Scottish Parliament but it's doubtful if anyone was listening. Until a few years ago the policy was to do everything possible to fly the plan, even if delayed, and end the day with everyone possible where they had hoped to be but operational convenience now over rides customer service,- now an almost derided term.
The root of their problem is their failure to secure Union agreement for pilots (other than on the first transit of the day) and cabin crew to treat LHR as just another transit airport so the crews have (different) minimum base turnaround times so that they can come off the aircraft, go and have a coffee and a bun, ring Mum or whatever. Hence the aircraft, pilots and cabin crew are all rostered separately through LHR and do not stay together for their complete shift as do most and especially Easyjet and Ryan whose shorthaul systemwide punctuality knocks the socks off BA. Hence once inbound delays start happening the whole programme comes unstuck for the rest of the day and the cancellations roll in. Domestics seem to take the worst hit, on the basis that there are alternatives, highly inconvenient and impractical though they may be. The whole situation is a disaster and unique to BA at LHR but solving it appears to be a low priority. The issue was raised recently in the Scottish Parliament but it's doubtful if anyone was listening. Until a few years ago the policy was to do everything possible to fly the plan, even if delayed, and end the day with everyone possible where they had hoped to be but operational convenience now over rides customer service,- now an almost derided term.
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SKYLION - Thanks for a very informed explanation! That makes sense. It would seem that Customer Service is no longer important to UK Airports or airlines anymore.
Things go round in circles though and I bet in a few years time things will have gone all the way round. Whatever happened to the customer always being right?!!!
EagleStar
Things go round in circles though and I bet in a few years time things will have gone all the way round. Whatever happened to the customer always being right?!!!
EagleStar
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The root of their problem is their failure to secure Union agreement for pilots (other than on the first transit of the day) and cabin crew to treat LHR as just another transit airport so the crews have (different) minimum base turnaround times so that they can come off the aircraft, go and have a coffee and a bun, ring Mum or whatever. Hence the aircraft, pilots and cabin crew are all rostered separately through LHR and do not stay together for their complete shift as do most and especially Easyjet and Ryan whose shorthaul systemwide punctuality knocks the socks off BA.
No, cabin crew are a different animal and indeed are stuck on the 1980's when it comes to working agreements and are only now starting trials (for an extra payment
of course) of staying with the aircraft on an LHR transit. Furthermore I understand that this will apply only on the middle day of a 3 day trip (day 2 will only consist of 2 flights btw). It will not apply on a 3 sector day 1 or day 3 (not that they do many of those anyway).
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Eaglestar,
Don't go thinking straight away that
and don't be misled by Skylion, who is talking rubbish!
Read Gonzos reply if you want to understand (or start to) the problems involved - the pilot/cabin crew issues mentioned in TopBunk's post though quite possibly true (I can't comment, I don't work for BA) are an attempt to address some possible false allegations from Skylion.
To be really simplistic and not even mention crew time, the fact is that airports have strict guidelines for operating hours - if things get delayed by an hour, this is going to have knock on effects down route or for next sectors... airlines fly right up to the final time airport operating hours allow them... how is it possible for them to claw back the time they lose due to the runway closure?
Simple fact is they can't, so they cancel. I'm not a great fan of BA but I'll give them their dues when it comes to this and similar circumstances... they grab the bull by the horn and make a decision early, giving customers as much notice as possible. They could possibly of course manage to do a handful of the cancelled flights, if only they waited until the last minute... as a customer do you really think a last minute cancellation would be better?
Don't go thinking straight away that
It would seem that Customer Service is no longer important to UK Airports or airlines anymore.
Read Gonzos reply if you want to understand (or start to) the problems involved - the pilot/cabin crew issues mentioned in TopBunk's post though quite possibly true (I can't comment, I don't work for BA) are an attempt to address some possible false allegations from Skylion.
To be really simplistic and not even mention crew time, the fact is that airports have strict guidelines for operating hours - if things get delayed by an hour, this is going to have knock on effects down route or for next sectors... airlines fly right up to the final time airport operating hours allow them... how is it possible for them to claw back the time they lose due to the runway closure?
Simple fact is they can't, so they cancel. I'm not a great fan of BA but I'll give them their dues when it comes to this and similar circumstances... they grab the bull by the horn and make a decision early, giving customers as much notice as possible. They could possibly of course manage to do a handful of the cancelled flights, if only they waited until the last minute... as a customer do you really think a last minute cancellation would be better?
Alba Gu Brath
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Originally Posted by Skylion
The days of manual systems were very customer friendly in comparaison.
Your claim that BA merely send the fare paying public off to the nearest internet cafe is frankly absurd. Perhaps you would care to share with the rest of us where you get your information from.
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When I started work out on the airfield at LHR in the early 1980's hardly a week went by for each shift to experience a runway closure due burst tyre. It was a well-practiced routine to scramble everyone to go and pick up the debris and open ASAP. Tyre technology has improved so much in the intervening years that it is now a really rare event.
We also had 'shoulder' runway slot periods with a reduced hourly rate so that events like this could be soaked up by the system; that's also a thing of the past. The slot situation is now so tight that any disruption will knock-on for hours or probably the rest of the day.
The BA cancellation policy isn't confined to LHR, the same applied to BA's LGW short-haul operation; better to suffer the short-term pain which actually minimises the number of people affected, rather than what the charter airlines do, which can knock delays on for days in the height of the season, affecting thousands of pax. Then again, you can't really 'cancel' IT charter, you have to carry the pax eventually...
TheOddOne
We also had 'shoulder' runway slot periods with a reduced hourly rate so that events like this could be soaked up by the system; that's also a thing of the past. The slot situation is now so tight that any disruption will knock-on for hours or probably the rest of the day.
The BA cancellation policy isn't confined to LHR, the same applied to BA's LGW short-haul operation; better to suffer the short-term pain which actually minimises the number of people affected, rather than what the charter airlines do, which can knock delays on for days in the height of the season, affecting thousands of pax. Then again, you can't really 'cancel' IT charter, you have to carry the pax eventually...
TheOddOne
Alba Gu Brath
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mmeteesside
Depends on why your travelling. A significant number of BA short haul pax are people travelling on business. If your going to AMS or PAR for the day to attend a meeting there's not much point getting there to partake of the post-meeting tea & biccys.
Depends on why your travelling. A significant number of BA short haul pax are people travelling on business. If your going to AMS or PAR for the day to attend a meeting there's not much point getting there to partake of the post-meeting tea & biccys.