BA hero wants to quit

[PoodleVelour]

FAO exeng

All Pilots with any experience are well aware of the drag factors evident in the use of Flap 30 or 25 (40 to 30 on 737, or whatever for a given Boeing model). They do not need to get a calculator out to work out the advantage the reduced drag will provide - they know it will will work to their advantage.

To suggest that "he guessed" is incorrect - he didn't guess, he applied his significant expertise and experience as a Pilot and Commander to ensure the best outcome under difficult circumstances.

May I respectfully suggest that had he been at the correct Ref speed with landing flap set, and then retracted one stage, the first thing the aircraft would have done is sink. As far as we are all aware, he left the A/P engaged, so presumably without thrust he did not increase speed - we just don't know that part yet, which is another reason that suggesting Diagnosis, Option consideration, Decision, Allocation and Review was unlikely to have been carried out. Further, unless you have heard the CVR, it is not known who suggested / requested a flap retraction, or what speed/height/range formula was used. After the sink, preferably if the speed had been increased to optimum, (perhaps by a shallow dive), then the glide would have been extended. My point is that neither he nor anyone else could have accurately known the interface between the extent of the sink and the subsequent glide with a slightly higher IAS. Hence he guessed. Made an inspired estimate perhaps?
In smaller aircraft, in the days when I worked for HMG, the practising for forced landings covered many many parameters, on approach and on departure. One thing I recall over a number of different aircraft types was the stomach clenching nature of that sink when one retracted a stage of flap at a critical speed and with the engine simulated failed.

.......and yes, I fly Boeings too!

[Dunhovrin]

Beardy would snap the guy up think of the free publicity.

You are joking. A whinging quitter? We'll take the other two men though.

[Starbear]

would someone be kind enough to direct me to the post or even the source where it states the captain (or anyone) changed the flap setting on v short finals. I don't recall seeing any of this in the AAIB updates so wondering how I missed this, everyone seems to have picked this up except me.....nothing new there then.

genuine request.

thanks

[Willie Wash]

Dunhovrin

To suggest the CPt of the BA 777 is a whinging quitter is downright slanderous. I suggest you certainly don't work for Virgin and more probable some lowlife BA PR snake. I and other PPruners expect you to issue an appology, forthwith.

[Southernboy]

Flaps

Me neither. Methinks it's just rumour & speculation. Just for a change.

[M.Mouse]

It is a fact that the flaps were moved from their landing position to a lower setting.

If you choose not to believe it then wait for the AAIB report.

[BOAC]

Originally Posted by woodpecker

Flaps 20 was NEVER selected

Originally Posted by M.Mouse

It is a fact that the flaps were moved from their landing position to a lower setting.

- come on guys, you are whetting our appetites with your inside knowledge!

Well at least Starbear and I am intrigued

NB Starbear it is in post #127

[Hand Solo]

Quite why he'd want to waste his time reading the unmitigated twaddle posted on here is anyone's guess. In fact I suspect he has been warned off this site in order to keep his blood pressure down.

[airfoilmod]

Without Knowing

The first thing about Captain Burkill, let alone stopping to consider the impact of the incident on his confidence (if any), what are ignorant people doing venturing into the ether?

I wouldn't know. Were it me, I would be shaken. The loss of an aircraft regardless of blame would impact any professional. The state of public discourse has been impacted hugely by the Net, with outcomes positive and negative. In a venue that encourages instantaneous comment, it is not remarkable that many speak and/or post without engaging brain, narrow or otherwise.

Airfoil

[point8six]

I don't find it remarkable at all AIRFOILMOD. It is an unfortunate part of our life that uninformed commentators now have this habit. See it everyday on TV, as that particular station strives to "find the answer" before any others do. As the saying goes "why let the truth get in the way of a good story"!

[fiftytwo]

I have just re read the AAIB Special bulletin 2008/1. There is no mention of flaps being moved. The only reference to flaps is thet the aircraft was fully configured at 1000ft with gear down and flap 30.

I don't believe there has been a further statement since this - or have I missed something?

[woodpecker]

Just believe the flaps were moved from 30, together with various other actions all accomplished in the last 40 seconds.

Given the situation (and a couple of hours to think it over) the only other thing that could have possibly increased the thrust would have been to knock the bleeds off, but they didn't have time on their side to come up with that one.

Of the things they did the flaps had the most effect, others could have helped but didn't!

[BOAC]

"stone, blood, of, out, a, getting".

So, Flap 25, then WP???? Strange AAIB appear to have missed it.............

[BusyB]

and why not turn the eec's off?

Don't get me wrong but the two guys did well, this thread is a total disgrace. With 40 secs to play with nobody could have done more. Every time I log on this thread stands out as a total insult to any professional pilot. As a 777 driver I don't feel that most of the contributions have any credibility at all. Give us all a break and shutup until we get the AIB final report.

[J.L. Seagull]

You make an exceedingly good point - but we need to remember that it was not any of the PPrune community who decided to put his story on the front page of a Sunday Redtop.
Dead interesting about this Flap issue, and all the people who purport to know definitely and contradictorily.
AAIB may take months, and probably will.

[pilotbear]

good possible point WP, just ignore the tossers who complain that the thread is too contentious for them, they cant handle anything hotter than Hello magazine. They also cant seem to find the OFF button on their computers.
Who knows, if it happens again a hindsight comment might stick in somebody's mind and save their life. That is THE POINT OF DISCUSSION

[Bronx]

BA hero wants to quit

Has he quit yet?

I can't find any more tabloid 'exclusives' online, so I guess not.

[Pontiuspilot]

I guess the offers from the Woolly Pully or the Sandpit haven't materialised yet.
On the other hand, I wonder what size cheque he got for the story thus far -anyone any experience of such things?

[M.Mouse]

The AAIB have not missed anything. I know for a fact that the flaps were moved from their landing position after the problem occurred.

[overstress]

The pilot did not speak to the paper. It was a 'puff' job.