BA hero wants to quit
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Don't know much about other professions but in this airline business, NEVER, NEVER set up yourself or in any way get others to imply that you are a hero despite whatever great thing you think you may have accomplished. There a many out there EVER READY to knock you down, especially fellow pilots and airline employees who are failed pilot wannabes.
Capt Burkill and his copilots had very little time to cope with this highly unusual occurance and leaving the automatics on reduced workload leaving them free to deal with it. I believed they retracted the flaps to 20degrees which proved to be instrumental in them getting over the fence...these were certainly not pilots who " froze ". As to whether if a better outcome had occurred had he hand flown the " crippled 7 ", it's hard to say except that had he done so after clearing the fence, it would have been a more controlled touch down. However this is 20/20 hindsight with lots of time on the armchair!
Capt Burkill and his copilots had very little time to cope with this highly unusual occurance and leaving the automatics on reduced workload leaving them free to deal with it. I believed they retracted the flaps to 20degrees which proved to be instrumental in them getting over the fence...these were certainly not pilots who " froze ". As to whether if a better outcome had occurred had he hand flown the " crippled 7 ", it's hard to say except that had he done so after clearing the fence, it would have been a more controlled touch down. However this is 20/20 hindsight with lots of time on the armchair!
Last edited by chintanmanis; 29th Apr 2008 at 21:57.
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Don't know much about other professions but in this airline business, NEVER, NEVER set up yourself or in any way get others to imply that you are a hero despite whatever great time you think you may have accomplished. There a many out there EVER READY to knock you down, especially fellow pilots and airline employees who are failed pilot wannabes.
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It sometimes seems that the easiest way to achieve a fat payout is to claim some sort of discrimination or bad treatment.
PTSD is a real problem, but very difficult to disprove. High profile actions against a large corporate employer often achieve profitable personal outcomes because PR seeking lawyers and PR managers are in a win/win situation. These days, the employment laws offer such protection to the individual that taking on the Company can be a stairway to riches provided one has a thick skin.
BA does not have a good history of winning grievance claims - and let's face it, remembering the payout given to Bob, why should more of us not follow his example?
This is meant as a factual comment, not a reflection on, or criticism of, the heroic Captain Burkhill.
(but I would have taken control and dived the aircraft - then called for a flap retraction....)
PTSD is a real problem, but very difficult to disprove. High profile actions against a large corporate employer often achieve profitable personal outcomes because PR seeking lawyers and PR managers are in a win/win situation. These days, the employment laws offer such protection to the individual that taking on the Company can be a stairway to riches provided one has a thick skin.
BA does not have a good history of winning grievance claims - and let's face it, remembering the payout given to Bob, why should more of us not follow his example?
This is meant as a factual comment, not a reflection on, or criticism of, the heroic Captain Burkhill.
(but I would have taken control and dived the aircraft - then called for a flap retraction....)
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Wow. You guys are a tough crowd. I also am one of those who hates malingerers or those who don't just suck it up and get on with things, BUT, I also believe that until you've been in his shoes... and things sometimes are not as they seem...
I would say that if you haven't read "Am I alive?" by Sandy Purl, you should. The prose surely didn't win any awards for writing expertise, it's a bit treacly and has other flaws, but through all that comes an honest account of what an air crash can do to a life of a crewmember survivor, even one who was lauded a hero (and clearly deserved the appellation.)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...948793,00.html
I would say that if you haven't read "Am I alive?" by Sandy Purl, you should. The prose surely didn't win any awards for writing expertise, it's a bit treacly and has other flaws, but through all that comes an honest account of what an air crash can do to a life of a crewmember survivor, even one who was lauded a hero (and clearly deserved the appellation.)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...948793,00.html
Last edited by soem dood; 29th Apr 2008 at 22:41.
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My god this place just gets worse.... you really are pathetic. You sit there at your keyboards without a life and know it all 'I would have done this or that....they shouldn't have done x or y'. All of you flying aces would probably have crashed on Hatton Cross tube station.
NO-ONE knows how they will react to any situation until it happens, and something like this is a life changing event for any normal person. The realisation that you could have died, wondering whether you could have done things differently, did you make a mistake etc.
I firmly believe they did the best they could in the few seconds they had, using automatics was the right thing, to take over and fly when you are out of the loop is a bad thing to do.
Hero is a dubious word to use at the best of times, they prevented a bad situation from getting worse which is a good job well done.
BA used him as a publicity stunt which is wrong.
As for the media, they are mostly uninformed W*****s with little or no information of any value to anyone as has been proven time and time again on here.
beer belly..diving the aircraft of that weight from that altitude would just dive you into the ground
it is not a C172
NO-ONE knows how they will react to any situation until it happens, and something like this is a life changing event for any normal person. The realisation that you could have died, wondering whether you could have done things differently, did you make a mistake etc.
I firmly believe they did the best they could in the few seconds they had, using automatics was the right thing, to take over and fly when you are out of the loop is a bad thing to do.
Hero is a dubious word to use at the best of times, they prevented a bad situation from getting worse which is a good job well done.
BA used him as a publicity stunt which is wrong.
As for the media, they are mostly uninformed W*****s with little or no information of any value to anyone as has been proven time and time again on here.
beer belly..diving the aircraft of that weight from that altitude would just dive you into the ground
it is not a C172
Last edited by pilotbear; 30th Apr 2008 at 07:13.
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BA used him as a publicity stunt which is wrong.
Capt Burkill went straight to that Max Clifford guy to sell his story to the British tabloids.
OK the story was in his wife's name but don't tell me she did that all on her own without his agreement.
B.
Controversial, moi?
Capt Burkill went straight to that Max Clifford guy to sell his story to the British tabloids.
OK the story was in his wife's name but don't tell me she did that all on her own without his agreement.
OK the story was in his wife's name but don't tell me she did that all on her own without his agreement.
That advice appeared to have been ignored.
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BA put him straight in front of the tv cameras - which was a publicity stunt. Max Clifford's subsequent involvement may or may not have been wrong but BA are also very good at getting the PR wrong. Terminal 5 anyone?
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Pilotbear,
I have to say that the last phase of flight when you should be 'out of the loop' is during the final approach. In fact, my company's SOP require the PF to actively stay in the loop with the AP at all times below 2500'
So, using the automatics may have been the right thing to do, but not for the reasons you state, IMHO.
using automatics was the right thing, to take over and fly when you are out of the loop is a bad thing to do.
So, using the automatics may have been the right thing to do, but not for the reasons you state, IMHO.
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Pilotbear,
There's plenty of muppets about alright, but it's easy to skip over posts that annoy you
! Giving your opinion is what this site's about and there's plenty of occassions you'll come across gems! There's few things in life that don't have negatives.
There's plenty of muppets about alright, but it's easy to skip over posts that annoy you
! Giving your opinion is what this site's about and there's plenty of occassions you'll come across gems! There's few things in life that don't have negatives.
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One thing that could put this all to rest is the AAIB report. For the crew of BA 38s peace of mind and those of us that fly the bl**dy things let's get some official information as soon as possible not just leaks, gossip & wild speculation.
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NO-ONE knows how they will react to any situation until it happens, and something like this is a life changing event for any normal person. The realisation that you could have died, wondering whether you could have done things differently, did you make a mistake etc.
Spot on !!
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pilotbear
You are so right.
I have heard it called a 'Cor,
, look at that!' moment.
When reality is suspended and unbelievably, the peace and calm of seconds earlier disappears in a welter ofhells!'. The bloke sitting next to you is looking right, fixated on something you can't see saying, 'No! No! No!'. The tone of his voice suggests you are in deep dwango.
In your headset there's a load of shouting. (We're talking a 3 man heli crew here).
And sadly, it's not the sim on a Friday afternoon where it's the dealer's call.
Do not judge those guys.
Luckily, I saved my crew that day because I am great.
MMnice
And for added emphasis:
Woo hoo, oh yeah!
I have heard it called a 'Cor,
, look at that!' moment.When reality is suspended and unbelievably, the peace and calm of seconds earlier disappears in a welter of
hells!'. The bloke sitting next to you is looking right, fixated on something you can't see saying, 'No! No! No!'. The tone of his voice suggests you are in deep dwango.In your headset there's a load of shouting. (We're talking a 3 man heli crew here).
And sadly, it's not the sim on a Friday afternoon where it's the dealer's call.
Do not judge those guys.
Luckily, I saved my crew that day because I am great.
MMnice
And for added emphasis:
Woo hoo, oh yeah!
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Just to add.
The co had spotted the sandwich van setting off to the other terminal. We were actually on the ground at the time with no engines running, but it was VERY scary.
Can I have some money from somebody now?
Or a job poncing about on long-haul with er, Virgin?
The co had spotted the sandwich van setting off to the other terminal. We were actually on the ground at the time with no engines running, but it was VERY scary.
Can I have some money from somebody now?
Or a job poncing about on long-haul with er, Virgin?
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long spoons
I'm not a pilot at all, but I do find the discussions here fascinating. I am a rather nervous passenger so the fact that I could die in an aircraft is prominent in my mind beleive me.
From a non techinical perspective I'm reassured that nothing obvious had been found yet from the BA flight, and the fact that there were no major injuries let alone a fatality means that the crew, all of them, not just the ones on the flight deck, did thier job well. Like many others I will wait for the official report for any firm conclusions.
As for dealing with the press... it is well known that they can turn on almost anyone. If they can turn on the McCanns in thier own tragedy then a pilot and his crew cant expect any mercy. I believe that there is a proverb about devils and long tableware that fits the bill.
From a non techinical perspective I'm reassured that nothing obvious had been found yet from the BA flight, and the fact that there were no major injuries let alone a fatality means that the crew, all of them, not just the ones on the flight deck, did thier job well. Like many others I will wait for the official report for any firm conclusions.
As for dealing with the press... it is well known that they can turn on almost anyone. If they can turn on the McCanns in thier own tragedy then a pilot and his crew cant expect any mercy. I believe that there is a proverb about devils and long tableware that fits the bill.
I'm NOT Reassured
Mercurydancer is reassured that the board has NOT reported a cause. I'm just the opposite. It would be far better to know just what happened so that preventive measures can be taken. I'd really like to know that they found out WHY it happened before the next time I get in a B777.
I'd really like to know that they found out WHY it happened before the next time I get in a B777
How many times has this not happened to a 777 landing? - No, I don't know either, but it's a very, very large number.
There are much more likely events to worry about.
Just keep smilin', Ed
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"I'd really like to know that they found out WHY it happened before the next time I get in a B777."
I think that is a sentiment somewhat shared by a few who operate and travel on the 777/RR combo....they would like to know the problem....and are concerned why it is seemingly taking what appears to be a lengthy time considering the data collection ability of the aircraft.
I think that is a sentiment somewhat shared by a few who operate and travel on the 777/RR combo....they would like to know the problem....and are concerned why it is seemingly taking what appears to be a lengthy time considering the data collection ability of the aircraft.