ICAO Language Proficiency Tests
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the best way to reach level 4 or 5 from level 0 or 1, is to aim to UK, australia, S.Africa, Canada... or USA and start flying there.
even if you study in english in italy, and your school is in english, you may not reach level 4.
even if you study in english in italy, and your school is in english, you may not reach level 4.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
re from captain87
Farrel,As I stated in my previous posts, I perfectly agree with ICAO requirements. Safety also means communicating more efficiently and without any misunderstandings ... I personally think that a user who belongs to Level 1 ICAO shouldn't absolutely begin an ATPL Course until reaching an adequite proficiency level. My last post about the short time in which it is asked to users reaching a Level 4 is simply a personal doubt !
Sometime it's a right thing being altruist, beacuse we could be in that situation anytime ... "A bunny wabbit would eat his carrot without reflecting about other hungry rabbits ..."
We discussed several times in class about this topic ... I'm not the only one who think I may be right !
Cheers
by captain87
Dartagnan,
Take me downwind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: FCO
Age: 54
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello all,
Hi Captain 87, yes, it's me.
dartagnan says the best way to get to level 4 proficiency is by living in an English speaking country (I urge my students to find a girlfriend or boyfriend that is a monolingual English speaker-it works every time. Level four in less than a year!). I say it may be the most efficient way but beware that living in one of these places is a good way to improve your colloquial language and proficiency but one must not forget a structured course in English. Unfortunately we "expert speakers" don't always use the best methods for communication. It is useless for a level one to live in these countries without having any instruction first or upon arrival. Not understanding ANYTHING will lead to frustration and will just make the learning process much more difficult.
I've got students that do, in fact, reach level 4 proficiency having never stepped foot in an English speaking country. I also suggest taking your ATPL course in English. This is a great way to use and learn the vocabulary and improve structure and overall proficiency. Oxford Aviation's cd roms (I am not paid by OAT) for PPL are now graded for helping English as a second language (ESL) students understand. They even have a record function to help you with pronunciation.
Hi Farrell, no he's not my bunny rabbit he's my Guinea Pig.
Unfortunately here in JAA land one must choose between teaching and testing and I have been given the testing hat by default. 
I love teaching and can only do so for those students I had before this new rule came into effect or military. It's a perfectly understandable rule, an ethical one. I really miss teaching though. 
Lastly, dartagnan, who said you were level 4? Which test did you take?
PA-28-180 , Roger, howerver I can't open the file. Can you re-send?
Thanks to all,
PE
Hi Captain 87, yes, it's me.
dartagnan says the best way to get to level 4 proficiency is by living in an English speaking country (I urge my students to find a girlfriend or boyfriend that is a monolingual English speaker-it works every time. Level four in less than a year!). I say it may be the most efficient way but beware that living in one of these places is a good way to improve your colloquial language and proficiency but one must not forget a structured course in English. Unfortunately we "expert speakers" don't always use the best methods for communication. It is useless for a level one to live in these countries without having any instruction first or upon arrival. Not understanding ANYTHING will lead to frustration and will just make the learning process much more difficult.
I've got students that do, in fact, reach level 4 proficiency having never stepped foot in an English speaking country. I also suggest taking your ATPL course in English. This is a great way to use and learn the vocabulary and improve structure and overall proficiency. Oxford Aviation's cd roms (I am not paid by OAT) for PPL are now graded for helping English as a second language (ESL) students understand. They even have a record function to help you with pronunciation.
Hi Farrell, no he's not my bunny rabbit he's my Guinea Pig.
Unfortunately here in JAA land one must choose between teaching and testing and I have been given the testing hat by default. I love teaching and can only do so for those students I had before this new rule came into effect or military. It's a perfectly understandable rule, an ethical one. I really miss teaching though. Lastly, dartagnan, who said you were level 4? Which test did you take?
PA-28-180 , Roger, howerver I can't open the file. Can you re-send?
Thanks to all,
PE
Take me downwind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: FCO
Age: 54
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi PA-28Mission accomplished. Check your emails. For interesting facts about AV Eng (not just pilot/controller dialogue and the ICAO requirements but also REAL aviation English) check out the ICAEA (mods: non profit) www.icaea.pata.pl
Ciao,
PE
Ciao,
PE
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North of CDG
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had my licence renewed by the CAA just the other day (for a fee of 123 quid 
, thankfully picked up by the company), and along came a letter explaining the new format and language proficiency. The trouble is that Section XIII only mentions: "language proficiency: English". It doesn't say to what level. At the end of the accompanying letter, I was none the wiser as to whether or not I would be assessed in the near future! 
Now, thanks to the links provided on this thread, I am under the impression that I am ICAO Level 4-compliant without the need to be tested before my next OPC/LPC, since all my flight training was done in English under CAA auspices, and my Radio licence was issued by the CAA.
However, like Dartagnan, I am not an native English speaker (although I can do a decent impersonation of a Brummie accent
) but have done my flight training in the USA, South Africa and Britain, and now work for an Irish outfit where my colleagues include English, Scottish, Irish, Australian, French, German, Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, etc. I have lived and worked in Britain for the past 9 years.
I find getting an automatic Level 4 against a automatic Level 6 for natives, a bit insulting - some of my colleagues (mostly from Northern Europe) have a better command of the English language than a number of Brits I know!
Cheers
(fantom: it's spelled Agincourt - your mistake shows how little you know about the whole episode. Check http://www.soton.ac.uk/research/sout...agincourt.html)
, thankfully picked up by the company), and along came a letter explaining the new format and language proficiency. The trouble is that Section XIII only mentions: "language proficiency: English". It doesn't say to what level. At the end of the accompanying letter, I was none the wiser as to whether or not I would be assessed in the near future! Now, thanks to the links provided on this thread, I am under the impression that I am ICAO Level 4-compliant without the need to be tested before my next OPC/LPC, since all my flight training was done in English under CAA auspices, and my Radio licence was issued by the CAA.
However, like Dartagnan, I am not an native English speaker (although I can do a decent impersonation of a Brummie accent
) but have done my flight training in the USA, South Africa and Britain, and now work for an Irish outfit where my colleagues include English, Scottish, Irish, Australian, French, German, Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, etc. I have lived and worked in Britain for the past 9 years.I find getting an automatic Level 4 against a automatic Level 6 for natives, a bit insulting - some of my colleagues (mostly from Northern Europe) have a better command of the English language than a number of Brits I know!
Cheers
(fantom: it's spelled Agincourt - your mistake shows how little you know about the whole episode. Check http://www.soton.ac.uk/research/sout...agincourt.html)
Take me downwind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: FCO
Age: 54
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi FougaMagister ,
make sure you check with your CAA as recently I tested a native English speaker and saw his new English CAA license with the same endorsement (whereupon I stopped the testing session).
Remember, if you are a level four then you'll have to be re-tested in three years, level six never re-tests. I would ask your CAA rep. It's worth finding out the answer and not just go on your impression.
Let us know what the result is.
Best of luck,
PE
make sure you check with your CAA as recently I tested a native English speaker and saw his new English CAA license with the same endorsement (whereupon I stopped the testing session).
Remember, if you are a level four then you'll have to be re-tested in three years, level six never re-tests. I would ask your CAA rep. It's worth finding out the answer and not just go on your impression.
Let us know what the result is.
Best of luck,
PE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
re from captain87
I personally think that I'll succed to reach Level 4 within next 6 months of my integrated course performed by PlaneEnglish ... In that course there are all the requirements a user needs, indipendently from country where course is performed. Obviously it's a nearly impossible target if being considered by a Low-Level user (Level 1-2). I really consider PlaneEnglish as the best english aviation school in Italy ! ... studying tools, methods and teachers are all largely qualified.
Said that, I wouldn't like that someone thought I'm advertising PE. That's simply the truth !
Taking in consideration a user who starts from Level 1, I may perfectly state he could reach Level 4 relatively in 250 class-based hours or 1500 , but it depends not from PlaneEnglish but simply from himself and his plight frequenting lessons and doing homeworks at the best.
I just established a new target that means reaching Level-5 once I get Level-4 !
Cheers,
captain87
Last edited by captain87; 4th Jan 2008 at 19:22.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North of CDG
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
planeenglish: wilco, thank you! The link you provided to ICAO Language Proficiency Requirements is indeed useful, but I must say that proficiency-wise, I wasn't too impressed by the samples of what ICAO Level 5 is! (I didn't listen to the Level 3 samples). I'll check with the CAA Licensing Dept at LGW what ICAO proficiency level they have assigned to me - since that's not mentioned in Section XIII of the licence . Plus I'd like to know if, as a non-native speaker, I could shoot for an ICAO Level 6 proficiency so as not to have to be re-tested in the future! 
Cheers
. Plus I'd like to know if, as a non-native speaker, I could shoot for an ICAO Level 6 proficiency so as not to have to be re-tested in the future! Cheers
Take me downwind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: FCO
Age: 54
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I've tested level 6 Italians, Belgians, Malaysian and many other ESL speakers. It is certainly possible for one to reach level 6, especially when living and working in an English speaking country. If you are working as a pilot then listen and learn.
Listen to these: http://www.ulc.gov.pl/download/ICAO_LPR/
Best to all,
PE
Listen to these: http://www.ulc.gov.pl/download/ICAO_LPR/
Best to all,
PE
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 74
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Well!
I don't know about the relative quality of the English spoken, but the audio quality made it all-but impossible to understand what was being spoken! There's really no rhyme or reason for publishing something which is so difficult to listen to - HF across the Atlantic is usually better than this. They all sound like they've got their heads in buckets.
TheOddOne
I don't know about the relative quality of the English spoken, but the audio quality made it all-but impossible to understand what was being spoken! There's really no rhyme or reason for publishing something which is so difficult to listen to - HF across the Atlantic is usually better than this. They all sound like they've got their heads in buckets.
TheOddOne
Beacon Outbound
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: "Home is were the answer machine is"
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAA document here.
This link was kindly provided earlier in this thread by Ozymandias.
Read page 10. This explains why your licence doesn't state what level of proficiency you have obtained. Where it states "language proficiency: English" it means level 4 or higher.
This link was kindly provided earlier in this thread by Ozymandias.
Read page 10. This explains why your licence doesn't state what level of proficiency you have obtained. Where it states "language proficiency: English" it means level 4 or higher.
Beacon Outbound
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: "Home is were the answer machine is"
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In addition to above, on your next flight test with a CAA examiner present them with Form SRG\1199, Record of English Language Proficiency. Can be found on the CAA website. Allows any CAA examiner to assess your English as level 6.
Do this as soon as possible, and you never have to worry about it again.
Download the form from the CAA website here.
Edit to add: CAA have removed this form from their web site. It appears it was posted too early and without proper guidance on how to use it.
Do this as soon as possible, and you never have to worry about it again.
Download the form from the CAA website here.
Edit to add: CAA have removed this form from their web site. It appears it was posted too early and without proper guidance on how to use it.
Last edited by IRRenewal; 8th Jan 2008 at 17:48.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North of CDG
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the link. Irrelevant to me unfortunately; as mentioned above, I fly on a JAA/UK licence for an Irish outfit. Our TREs are IAA-approved, therefore they don't have a CAA ref. number. My understanding therefore is that they can't fill that form. Yet another question for the CAA Licensing Dept!
Cheers
Cheers
There's an interesting article about the ICAO language proficiency standards in the copy of the UK Royal Aeronautical Society's magazine which came today.
It is clearly expert, as you would expect, and is very informative.
However, at one point it tells a story that the last words on the CVR of a Chinese MD83 before it crashed were "what does 'pull up' mean?".
To me, this has the hallmarks of an apocryphal story; I simply cannot make myself believe that anyone properly qualified to fly that aircraft - licence, type-rating, 6-monthly checks etc etc - would have to ask that, no matter what the pilot's native language is and how poor his/her English might be.
On the other hand, the RAeS is not given to circulating sensational mythology.
Does anyone know whether it's true or false?
By the way; also according to the article, the Chinese now seem to be leading the non-English speaking world with their system to ensure that all pilots and ATC staff comply with ICAO Level 4 as a minimum, with carefully monitored and approved training and testing.
The only fault with the article (and perhaps with ICAO's approach) is that it seems to ignore the front-line maintenance staff. The communication difficulties that exist now, with many nationalities working together on the line and in the hangar in almost every maintenance organisation outside N. America, are potentially as big a safety issue as the difficulties pilots have with radio communications.
Poor comprehension of work instructions (spoken and written) and manuals, misunderstandings among engineering colleagues and, for line engineers at least, difficulty in communicating with aircrew, are all possible causal factors for uncaptured maintenance errors.
Many manuals are so badly written that native English speakers have trouble, but that's another, related issue.
It is clearly expert, as you would expect, and is very informative.
However, at one point it tells a story that the last words on the CVR of a Chinese MD83 before it crashed were "what does 'pull up' mean?".
To me, this has the hallmarks of an apocryphal story; I simply cannot make myself believe that anyone properly qualified to fly that aircraft - licence, type-rating, 6-monthly checks etc etc - would have to ask that, no matter what the pilot's native language is and how poor his/her English might be.
On the other hand, the RAeS is not given to circulating sensational mythology.
Does anyone know whether it's true or false?
By the way; also according to the article, the Chinese now seem to be leading the non-English speaking world with their system to ensure that all pilots and ATC staff comply with ICAO Level 4 as a minimum, with carefully monitored and approved training and testing.
The only fault with the article (and perhaps with ICAO's approach) is that it seems to ignore the front-line maintenance staff. The communication difficulties that exist now, with many nationalities working together on the line and in the hangar in almost every maintenance organisation outside N. America, are potentially as big a safety issue as the difficulties pilots have with radio communications.
Poor comprehension of work instructions (spoken and written) and manuals, misunderstandings among engineering colleagues and, for line engineers at least, difficulty in communicating with aircrew, are all possible causal factors for uncaptured maintenance errors.
Many manuals are so badly written that native English speakers have trouble, but that's another, related issue.