ICAO Language Proficiency Tests
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what it has to do with english conversation?
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Roger!
That was what you would hear at Opa-Locka Airport circa 1980 when some student from some other part of "America," such as Panama, say, was told some boring details such as, "Stand by for your take-off clearance. Hold your position. I say again, hold your position."
Cue one small aircraft swinging onto the active to disappear into the middle distance. "Take-off" he knew; what the rest of that was, "Dios que sabe." Happy days!
I am very proud of my German radio licence, issued by the Post and Telecommunications Authority. I really had to work for it by doing a pretend CVFR flight. That said, at the time my conversational German was about on the level of "Gib mir ein Bier, bitte," what they call "Soldatendeutsch."
Here one should only need to learn about 250 words (the experts here can tell us if that is the correct number) and certain phrases to be a safe user of Aviation English. It sounds as if much more than that shall be necessary, though.
Not quite on topic but do remember that there is nothing illegal about using a local language in R/T. I find it a bit boring flying with a Pom who gets all huffy about hearing French or Arabic spoken here in Algeria. It is sub-optimal, yes, but it is not out of order.
Cue one small aircraft swinging onto the active to disappear into the middle distance. "Take-off" he knew; what the rest of that was, "Dios que sabe." Happy days!
I am very proud of my German radio licence, issued by the Post and Telecommunications Authority. I really had to work for it by doing a pretend CVFR flight. That said, at the time my conversational German was about on the level of "Gib mir ein Bier, bitte," what they call "Soldatendeutsch."
Here one should only need to learn about 250 words (the experts here can tell us if that is the correct number) and certain phrases to be a safe user of Aviation English. It sounds as if much more than that shall be necessary, though.
Not quite on topic but do remember that there is nothing illegal about using a local language in R/T. I find it a bit boring flying with a Pom who gets all huffy about hearing French or Arabic spoken here in Algeria. It is sub-optimal, yes, but it is not out of order.
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Thread Starter
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I did the demo test online, this is for controllers?cuz the exemple are sometimes hard to understand.
I have problem to figure out what's the problem between planes and controller due to accent and how bad are some accent (russian?).
I guess I scored a 65% but I can not be a traffic controller for sure.
You need to know to type fast!
I have problem to figure out what's the problem between planes and controller due to accent and how bad are some accent (russian?).
I guess I scored a 65% but I can not be a traffic controller for sure.
You need to know to type fast!
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I tried to find anything about exam-centres on the website of the Belgian CAA.. nothing.
I have heard absolutely NADA about this requirement exept from trying to update myself.
Is the airline or the CAA responsible for organizing the tests?
Does anyone know where I have to pass the test in Belgium?
If the Belgian CAA doesn't have the courtousy to inform its pilots of a major change in licencing requirements, then I'm nt going to run after them and pretend to be ignorant about the whole thing. My collegues are doing the same. However, I do agree that the requirement itself is a good thing, but should be done in a uniform way.
I have heard absolutely NADA about this requirement exept from trying to update myself.
Is the airline or the CAA responsible for organizing the tests?
Does anyone know where I have to pass the test in Belgium?
If the Belgian CAA doesn't have the courtousy to inform its pilots of a major change in licencing requirements, then I'm nt going to run after them and pretend to be ignorant about the whole thing. My collegues are doing the same. However, I do agree that the requirement itself is a good thing, but should be done in a uniform way.
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D'Artagnan,
I agree with Moira.....
I just took the sample test out of pure curiosity (no, I'm not an air traffic controller).
Looking at the results afterwards I didn't do badly at all.
My problem was simply assessing the scenario as a near-outsider, and typing in the right answers fast enough !
At no time did I have any problem with the accents... which might raise questions about how realistic the test is.
I agree with Moira.....
... if you find the accents in the sample test difficult to understand, you just don't want to hear the real thing ...
Looking at the results afterwards I didn't do badly at all.
My problem was simply assessing the scenario as a near-outsider, and typing in the right answers fast enough !
At no time did I have any problem with the accents... which might raise questions about how realistic the test is.
Take me downwind
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what is being tested
Hello everyone,
Speaking about accents and monolingual native English speakers, think about what is really (or should be if the test is actually compliant) tested: the ability to communicate efficiently and therefore safely. Having a high proficiency level of the English language is no good if you use it colloquially on the radio. A high level should be awarded to those who consciously use unambiguous and concise language. For a native or expert speaker this is important that they use language leaving out jargon and slang and omit complex structures.
It is about language awareness (look here for a native speaker who is really linguistically aware). ICAO just now put an amendment to Annex 10 stating that "Go Ahead" could be mistaken for an authorization to proceed with taxiing therefore should be omitted when making "call and answer" transmissions. The CAA of England has been doing it for decades in all situations as they understood the danger of "Go Ahead".
"The Test" (for those who asked, there are about a handful and of those only a couple are actually compliant) should measure one's ability to use plain language only when standard R/T does not suffice and then they choose to use plain language in an unambiguous manner-structured correctly and efficiently.
Best to all,
PE
Speaking about accents and monolingual native English speakers, think about what is really (or should be if the test is actually compliant) tested: the ability to communicate efficiently and therefore safely. Having a high proficiency level of the English language is no good if you use it colloquially on the radio. A high level should be awarded to those who consciously use unambiguous and concise language. For a native or expert speaker this is important that they use language leaving out jargon and slang and omit complex structures.
It is about language awareness (look here for a native speaker who is really linguistically aware). ICAO just now put an amendment to Annex 10 stating that "Go Ahead" could be mistaken for an authorization to proceed with taxiing therefore should be omitted when making "call and answer" transmissions. The CAA of England has been doing it for decades in all situations as they understood the danger of "Go Ahead".
"The Test" (for those who asked, there are about a handful and of those only a couple are actually compliant) should measure one's ability to use plain language only when standard R/T does not suffice and then they choose to use plain language in an unambiguous manner-structured correctly and efficiently.
Best to all,
PE
Last edited by planeenglish; 21st Dec 2007 at 18:21.
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I was at the CAA itself yesterday, when I asked what was up.
It seems as if some parts of this have not been finalised. People who have done an RT test get an entry in the licence that will be valid for 3 years (I think it is) with some mechanism to do the required test coming next year. I assume we can visit some approved testing centre to see just how we get on with the language.
It seems as if some parts of this have not been finalised. People who have done an RT test get an entry in the licence that will be valid for 3 years (I think it is) with some mechanism to do the required test coming next year. I assume we can visit some approved testing centre to see just how we get on with the language.
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Have a look at para 3.4 in the first link.
Apart from political correctness running amok as usual, think about some of the broad local Scottish and Yorkshire accents you may have encountered on UK R/T......
Apart from political correctness running amok as usual, think about some of the broad local Scottish and Yorkshire accents you may have encountered on UK R/T......
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ICAO Language
Two pilots from different regions in a bi-lingual country are approaching a non-controlled airport; one interprets the windsock to land Rw 09, the other thinks 27 is the better one.
They both set up a circuit to land on their chosen runway after announcing it in their native languages. Neither pilot understands what the other is saying. Neither gives a monkey's nuts about the wisdom of common language in the circuit because they both think that "I am in my right".
Both pilots elect to overshoot when they see another a/c on a collision course when on finals. One pilot overshoots to the "dead" side of the circuit, the other, unfortunately, does not overshoot on his dead side!
The scenario can, and has, occured somewhere in the world (maybe under different circumstances) in particular where language is a political issue and put in the civil law. It happened to me and I got away with a close call.
They both set up a circuit to land on their chosen runway after announcing it in their native languages. Neither pilot understands what the other is saying. Neither gives a monkey's nuts about the wisdom of common language in the circuit because they both think that "I am in my right".
Both pilots elect to overshoot when they see another a/c on a collision course when on finals. One pilot overshoots to the "dead" side of the circuit, the other, unfortunately, does not overshoot on his dead side!
The scenario can, and has, occured somewhere in the world (maybe under different circumstances) in particular where language is a political issue and put in the civil law. It happened to me and I got away with a close call.
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re from captain87
I'm an ATPL Student and I've just performed the ICAO Placement Test in order to be evaluated before starting the courses. I had a Level 3, which is established by the lowest score obtained in one of the 6 fields (Pronuciation, Structure, Vocabulary, Fluency, Comprehension, Interactions).
I had the following results: 3.5 - 3 - 2.5 - 3.5 - 3.5 - 3
Furthermore there is a written exams score in which I performed 39 right answers over 60 ... but the written one is not important such the oral.
Since all the pilots and controllers have to reach the minumum proficiency level operation (Level 4), I have been suggested to start the course by Module B (see www.relta.org) then followed by Advanced Radiotelephony Course.
I think this is the better way in order to improve the safety in communications and to reduce the number of misfortunes due to it.
My mother-tongue teacher said that Level 4 means that the user can well understand english and obviously that he can be well understood without any misunderstandings. It is a goal that can be perfectly reached in 125-250 hours of class-based-course and CBT's (Computer Based Training).
I noticed that there is a common problem for non-native speakers: the understanding of american/very fluent (contracted) english that usually brings the user to be out of comprehension.
I think there will not be huge problems at all caused by it since ICAO doesn't want to eliminate the foreign pilots but to improve readability and safety indeed.
Happy new Year and Have a lot of fun !!!
by captain87
I had the following results: 3.5 - 3 - 2.5 - 3.5 - 3.5 - 3
Furthermore there is a written exams score in which I performed 39 right answers over 60 ... but the written one is not important such the oral.
Since all the pilots and controllers have to reach the minumum proficiency level operation (Level 4), I have been suggested to start the course by Module B (see www.relta.org) then followed by Advanced Radiotelephony Course.
I think this is the better way in order to improve the safety in communications and to reduce the number of misfortunes due to it.
My mother-tongue teacher said that Level 4 means that the user can well understand english and obviously that he can be well understood without any misunderstandings. It is a goal that can be perfectly reached in 125-250 hours of class-based-course and CBT's (Computer Based Training).
I noticed that there is a common problem for non-native speakers: the understanding of american/very fluent (contracted) english that usually brings the user to be out of comprehension.
I think there will not be huge problems at all caused by it since ICAO doesn't want to eliminate the foreign pilots but to improve readability and safety indeed.
Happy new Year and Have a lot of fun !!!
by captain87
Last edited by captain87; 30th Dec 2007 at 11:18.
Take me downwind
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clarification
Hello captain87,
I tried to send you a PM but am not able. Just a slight clarification- I believe the test you sat was actually a placement test, not a proficiency test.
A placement test is a needs analysis for possible training whereas a proficiency test determines actual ability.
A placement test will probably have a written test where a proficiency test should not. (Writing is proof of knowledge and not a true measure of practical ability and therefore not "allowed" for an ICAO compliant test. Liken it to your written exam for your pilots license, you must still have a practical flying test before obtaining your license.)
Lastly, a placement test allows half measures (hence your score of 3.5 in some areas) this is to let the individual know where in that band, or level, you are. A whole number means the lower end of the band and a .5 will mean the higher end of the band. This is vital information for your future instructor.
Regarding
It is difficult for mother tongue speakers to understand colloquial language. Hopefully with these new standards linguistic awareness will heighten and those who tend to use such regional language will learn to speak with the listener in mind.
Best to all,
PE
I tried to send you a PM but am not able. Just a slight clarification- I believe the test you sat was actually a placement test, not a proficiency test.
A placement test is a needs analysis for possible training whereas a proficiency test determines actual ability.
A placement test will probably have a written test where a proficiency test should not. (Writing is proof of knowledge and not a true measure of practical ability and therefore not "allowed" for an ICAO compliant test. Liken it to your written exam for your pilots license, you must still have a practical flying test before obtaining your license.)
Lastly, a placement test allows half measures (hence your score of 3.5 in some areas) this is to let the individual know where in that band, or level, you are. A whole number means the lower end of the band and a .5 will mean the higher end of the band. This is vital information for your future instructor.
Regarding
the understanding of American/very fluent (contracted) English that usually brings the user to be out of comprehension.
Best to all,
PE
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re from captain87
For PlaneEnglish
Yes you're perfectly right. What I performed was not a proficiency test but a placement one. I got wrong !
I was a little consfused about it first time !
According my example with scores, I would have like to say that the lowest score gives the Level ... is that true ?
Thank you for your response and Happy New Year !
by captain87
Yes you're perfectly right. What I performed was not a proficiency test but a placement one. I got wrong !
I was a little consfused about it first time !
According my example with scores, I would have like to say that the lowest score gives the Level ... is that true ?
Thank you for your response and Happy New Year !
by captain87
Last edited by captain87; 3rd Jan 2008 at 18:50.
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re from captain87
Dartagnan,Thank you very much for your consideration ! ... I am perfectly aware that is very difficult for a non-native speaker to write correct english and speaking it anytime. It is also very difficult to understand american conversations between two or more native-speakers. ICAO states that who doesn't speak and understand english at Level-4 (as a minimum) cannot operate as a pilot and ATC controller ... what's the plot of this story ? ... I perfectly try to do the best for my preparation in order to improve my proficiency, but placing them within the limits of possibility ! ... I got a Level 3 at Placement Test.
As I know, there are much more persons who start from low levels (ICAO 0-1-2) than high. Level 0 hasn't been kept in mind by ICAO (doesn't exist) but is absolutely REAL ! ... although there was many "dumb" speakers who had a Level-1 in my course.
The greater part of these have just started an ATPL Course and ICAO asks them reaching a Level-4 in 10 months. Is it possible ? ...
Personally I have a doubt about it ! ...
captain87
