Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

KLM can't find new HYD; India?

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

KLM can't find new HYD; India?

Old 24th Mar 2008, 07:04
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
KLM can't find new HYD; India?

"KLM pilot can't place new Hyderabad airport", from The Times of India. Hours after HYD opened a KLM flight from Europe diverted to Delhi as the pilot of the KLM had no Notam about the closing of Hyderabad Begumpet (HYD) and the opening of Hyderabad Shamshabadad (HYD), says The Times. On arriving Delhi the aircraft was refused landing clearance and so diverted to Mumbai were it landed without any problems, according to reports. Good choice on fuel Captain! Must have been a very busy flight deck.

Report ends that KLM were 'profusely apologetic'.

All the above is from the 'press'; no first-hand knowledge but as a regular to India thought it of some interest. Good to see another much needed new airport facility in India.

Happened to me many many years ago when a first officer with a start up airline. A new airfield opened and only after take-off did we realise that we were off to the 'new' airport. No charts, no NOTAM, no nothing. But CAVOK, no traffic and we knew the area well. Unlike Hyderabad when the KLM diverted where there is always a lot of traffic and weather was reported as marginal. Not too long ago though that I arrived in China to find a new parallel runway was open that was not on any of our Jepps! Of course it had to be the one in use and we were not the only ones asking for the ILS frequency and go-around procedure.
quartic is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 08:13
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
..reported in 'Dawn', also.

..'Dawn' is usually pretty close to mark.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/03/24/rss.htm#9
a convict is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 11:01
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Hampshire.
Age: 48
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So am I correct in thinking that VOHY/HYD is now closed and the new airport VOHS/HYD is now open?

Not much info around on this one!
B777FD is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 11:50
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not much info around on this one!
Lots of information available.

Mutt
mutt is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 12:01
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 74
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just out of curiosity, when is the new (BLR) Bangalore airport scheduled to open ?

Frank
fendant is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 12:48
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Hampshire.
Age: 48
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
mutt

Thanks for that. Could you point me in the right direction? Can't see anything in NOTAMS.

Cheers

FD
B777FD is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 14:31
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CGN
Age: 52
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just out of curiosity, when is the new (BLR) Bangalore airport scheduled to open ?
Plan was:

07 Mar: First Test Flights by Deccan and potentially Kingfisher
28 Mar: Official Opening by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh
30 Mar: First Scheduled Flights

This has now been delayed by approx 30-45 days. There are various reasons available in the papers and different forums - ranging from ATC technical problems via shortage of ATCOs to infrastuctural problems ("oops, we need a road to the airport? should have told us..."). Which reason is true I cannot say.

Hope this anwers your question.
kingair9 is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 14:33
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nothing on the NOTAMs!

VOHY HYDERABAD

A0373/08 - PRKG STAND NR 1 NOT AVBL DUE MAINT WORK. 19 MAR 12:00 2008 UNTIL 24 MAR 23:59
2008 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 19 MAR 12:19 2008
A0369/08 - PARKG STAND NR.5, 5A, 5B, AND 6 TO 9 DECLARED POWER
IN PUSH BACK STANDS. 18 MAR 10:20 2008 UNTIL 30 MAR 23:59 2008. CREATED: 18
MAR 11:02 2008
A0368/08 - BIRD ACTIVITY OBSERVED IN THE VICINITY OF AERODROME. 18 MAR 10:20 2008 UNTIL
30 MAR 23:59 2008. CREATED: 18 MAR 10:57 2008
A0364/08 - RWY 27/09 NOT AVBL FOR OPS DUE MAINT WORK. EV TUE 0800-1000, 18 MAR 08:00 2008
UNTIL 25 MAR 10:00 2008. CREATED: 18 MAR 04:58 2008
A0346/08 - WIND PANEL U/S. 13 MAR 23:55 2008 UNTIL 13 MAY 12:30 2008 ESTIMATED. CREATED:
14 MAR 04:44 2008
A0499/07 - MED INTENSITY AVIATION OBST LIGHT INSTL ON THE TOP OF MAHENDRA
HILLS 172716N0783133E ELEV 2046 FT. 13 APR 11:00 2007 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 13
APR 12:56 2007
A0080/07 - THE FLW NEW PAVEMENTS ARE COMMISSIONED FOR ACFT OPS.
1. NEW APRON ADJOINING THE MAIN APRON ON THE WEST SIDE, SIZE 126M X
48M CONCRETE SFC, PCN 61/R/B/W/T PROVIDED WITH RELEVANT APRON
MARKINGS AND FLOOD-LIT MARKED FOR PWR-IN, PWR-OUT PRKG OF THREE ATR
72 TYPE OF ACFT WITH EAST-WEST ORIENTATION. PRKG STAND NR 10A,10B
AND10C ARE DEPENDENT BAYS TO BE OCCUPIED IN THAT SEQUENCE.
2. NEW APRON ADJOINING THE MAIN APRON ON THE EAST SIDE, SIZE 155M X
41M CONCRETE SFC, PCN 61/R/B/W/T PROVIDED WITH RELEVANT MARKINGS
AND FLOOD-LIT MARKED FOR PWR-IN, PUSHBACK PRKG OF ONE A320 TYPE OF
ACFT WITH NORTH-SOUTH ORIENTATION. PRKG STAND NR 1A.
WITH THIS ADDITION THE TOTAL SIZE OF MAIN APRON BECOMES 637M X 156
PS 149M/2. 17 JAN 12:40 2007 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 17 JAN 13:36 2007
A0711/06 - THE FOLLOWING NEW PAVEMENTS ARE COMMISSIONED FOR ACFT
OPS
1. NEW TWY J STARTING FM ISOLATION BAY BAY NO 20, TR
320 DEG/140 DEG, LEN 335M,INCLUDING TURN PAD OF SIZE 116M X
45.6M AT THE END, WIDTH 18M.PROVIDED WITH 5 M SHOULDERS ON
ALL SIDES, ASPHALT SURFACE OVER CONCRETE PCN 24/F/A/X/T
PROVIDED WITH TWY CL MARKINGS, TWY EDGE MARKINGS, TURN
PAD MARKINGS AND TWY EDGE LGT. BAY NO 21 MARKED ON THE
TWY J AT 180M FROM ISOLATION BAY.
2. NEW TWY H CONNECTING TWY J AND NEW APN NEAR NRSA
HANGAR AT A DIST OF 120M NW OF ISOLATION BAY, TRACK 030 DEG/
210DEG,LEN 56M,WIDTH 18M, PROVIDED WITH 5M SHOULDERS ON
BOTH SIDES, ASPHALT SURFACE, PCN 24/F/A/X/T. PROVIDED WITH TWY
CL MARKINGS, TWY EDGE MARKINGS, AND TWY EDGE LGT.
3.NEW APN NEAR NRSA HANGAR, SIZE 162.5M X 90.7M, ASPHALT SURFACE
PCN 24/F/A/X/T. PROVIDED WITH 5M SHOULDER ON ALL SIDES. PROVIDED
WITH RELEVANT APN MARKINGS AND FLOOD-HIT. MARKED TO ACCOMMODATE
FOUR A320 TYP FOR POWER-IN, PUSHBACK-START OPS.
ACFT STAND NOS:22,23,24 AND 25. 25 MAY 13:30 2006 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 25 MAY
15:07 2006
G0033/08 - REFER G0031/08 AND AIP SUPPLEMENT 03/2008.
HYDERABAD ATC WILL CLEAR ALL ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES TO/FROM
HYDERABAD(BEGUMPET) WITH REFERENCE TO HYDERABAD VOR(HHY,
114.7 MHZ). 18 MAR 12:00 2008 UNTIL 18 APR 12:00 2008 ESTIMATED. CREATED:
19 MAR 12:56 2008
G0025/08 - NEW R/T CALL SIGN FOR ATS UNIT AT EXISTING HYDERABAD AIRPORT
IS AS FOLLOWS:
ATS UNIT R/T CALL SIGN
TWR BEGUMPET TOWER. 15 MAR 18:00 2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 05
MAR 13:03 2008

VOHS RAJIV GHANDI INTL AP

G0036/08
- REFER AIP SUPPLEMENT NO:24/2008?ILS RWY09? AND 25/2008?ILS
RWY27?-R.G.I.AIRPORT SHAMSHABAD?HYDERABAD?
THE ABOVE PROCEDURES ARE EFFECTIVE FROM 0803221831UTC. 22 MAR 18:31 2008 UNTIL
PERM. CREATED: 21 MAR 09:21 2008
G0034/08 - REFER G-SERIES NOTAM G0031/08.AIP SUPPLEMENT 10/2008 IS EFFECTIVE
FROM 0803221831. H-24, 20 MAR 10:30 2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 20 MAR 10:55 2008
G0028/08 - REFER AIP SUPPLEMENT NO.03/2008,10/2008,13/2008,14/2008,
15/2008,18/2008 AND 19/2008-RAJIV GANDHI INTERNATIONAL
AIRPORT,SHAMSHABAD,HYDERABAD.

HYDERABAD APPROACH AND HYDERABAD CONTROL WILL CONTINUE TO
WORK ON 132.4 MHZ AND 118.3 MHZ RESPECTIVELY UNTIL FURTHER
NOTICE.ALTERNATE FREQ OF HYDERABAD CONTROL IS 129.7 MHZ. H-24, 15 MAR 17:30
2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 12 MAR 10:31 2008
G0027/08 - REFER AIP SUPPLEMENT NO.18/2008 REGARDING VOR PROCEDURE
RWY 09-RGI AIRPORT,SHAMSHABAD.
1) THE SUPPLEMENT SHALL BE IMPLEMENTED W.E.F. 0803151800
2) THE FOLLOWING OPERATING MINIMA SHALL BE APPLICABLE FOR
THE PROCEDURE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
AERODROME CATEGORY A CATEGORY B CATEGORY C CATEGORY D
OPERATING (VISB) (VISB) (VISB) (VISB)
MINIMA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS
OUT OUT OUT OUT
-------------------------------------------------------------------
NORMAL MINIMA
1600 2400 1600 2400 2000 2800 2800 3600
STRAIGHT-IN
-------------------------------------------------------------------
RESTRICTED
MINIMA
2000 2800 2000 2800 2400 3200 3200 4000
STRAIGHT-IN
-------------------------------------------------------------------
NORMAL CIRCLING 3600 3600 4000 4400
MINIMA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
RESTRICTED
CIRCLING
3600 3600 4400 4800
MINIMA
------------------------------------------------------------------.
15 MAR 18:00 2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 07 MAR 12:19 2008

G0026/08 - REFER AIP SUPPLEMENT NO.19/2008 REGARDING VOR PROCEDURE
RWY 27-RGI AIRPORT,SHAMSHABAD.
1) THE SUPPLEMENT SHALL BE IMPLEMENTED W.E.F. 0803151800
2) THE FOLLOWING OPERATING MINIMA SHALL BE APPLICABLE FOR
THE PROCEDURE.
AERODROME CATEGORY A CATEGORY B CATEGORY C CATEGORY D
OPERATING (VISB) (VISB) (VISB) (VISB)
MINIMA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS ALS
OUT OUT OUT OUT
-------------------------------------------------------------------
NORMAL MINIMA
1600 2400 1600 2400 2000 2800 2400 3200
STRAIGHT-IN
------------------------------------------------------------------
RESTRICTED
MINIMA
2000 2800 2000 2800 2400 3200 2800 3600
STRAIGHT-IN
------------------------------------------------------------------
NORMAL CIRCLING 3600 3600 4000 4400
MINIMA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
RESTRICTED
CIRCLING
3600 3600 4400 4800
MINIMA
------------------------------------------------------------------. 15 MAR 18:00 2008 UNTIL PERM.

CREATED: 07 MAR 12:19 2008
EDIT: Formatting
EatMyShorts! is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 14:36
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CGN
Age: 52
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Espacially funny as it states explicitly the OLD airport VOHY:

Nothing on the NOTAMs!


Quote:
VOHY HYDERABAD
kingair9 is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 16:29
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Actually FD, we acecepted a kind invitation to tour the airport last month, we sent a team to review the facilities etc, since then we have received about 100 telexes detailing every single event happening with the airport.

Didnt YOUR airline review the airport prior to operations?

Mutt
mutt is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 17:10
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Hampshire.
Age: 48
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I saw those NOTAMs, I couldn't specifically read that VOHY has ceased all operations which was my question. I don't recieve AIP updates so I guess I'll wait for Jepp updates.

Thanks for you kind help.
B777FD is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2008, 17:32
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CGN
Age: 52
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On arriving Delhi the aircraft was refused landing clearance and so diverted to Mumbai were it landed without any problems, according to reports.
Am I missing something or have I overread the reason why DEL as official alternate refused to take him?
kingair9 is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2008, 06:05
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New HYD airport gives pilots the jitters

So says the Times of India today!

All about EGPWS and false warnings because of the EGPWS data bases being out of date. Nothing new there as this seems to be case in the past with many new airports, new runways and recently extended runways. Happened at the then new Athens airport for many months. Let us hope pilots are not getting too used to turning off this bit of kit? The Times reports "Most Indian Pilots ignore the terrain nuisance warning but foreign pilot take note of them, which may explain the KLM decision to divert." Talking only about HYD one hopes.

As regards Delhi as alternate I believe they do not accept being filed as an alternate as they are 'maxed out'. They have a notice in the above paper today apologising in advance for delays to movements as work is finalised for the new runway, opening soon. They are also short of parking for large aircraft. Stand to be corrected if anyone has had Delhi accepted as an alternate at busy periods - middle of the night and middle of the day.
quartic is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 03:39
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Umm When flight crews check in at their operations centre before boarding the aircraft, do they not review the flight routing? In which case, why did he leave it so late before he realised he didn't know about the new airport? (I am assuming that a lack of approach plates was the real reason - Approach, Tower and Ground radio would have given him everything else he might have needed surely)
Xeque is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 04:22
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Would they not have also checked the destination weather?

If VOHY was closed would VOHY have been doing weather observations and reports?
Phileas Fogg is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 11:09
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So far the guessing.

Now for some facts:

- The crew filed to the new airport.
- There was no confusion regarding opening status of the new airport.
- The company has been closely monitoring the whole transition.
- There were several KLM teams who have visited the new airport the final months before it was opened, including a delegation of flight operations.
- The crew of KL873 made two approach attempts at the new airport.
- On both attempts they had insufficient visual reference to continue descent below descent limit so on both occassions a go-around was made.
- After the second go-around the crew decided to divert to Mumbai.

How should I know this? Maybe my username gives a hint......
WingletMD11 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 11:54
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
WingletMD11
If that's the case I'm surprised that KLM did not act immediately to deal with the story when it first broke in the Indian newspapers. It would have put a cap on the story immediately rather than let it run on to create the speculation that would obviously follow.
Xeque is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 11:57
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Never never ever trust newspapers when they write about aviation.
fox niner is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 13:13
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Xeque, indeed rather strange. However, they have made a statement in Dutch explaining that reason for diversion was purely weather related.

Last edited by WingletMD11; 26th Mar 2008 at 13:23.
WingletMD11 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2008, 13:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Auckland NZ
Age: 64
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New Bangalore Airport

The new airport at Bangalore is now scheduled to open on the 11th May.
C433 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.