Since when has Ryanair been "Europe's Largest Airline" -PPrune Advertising Banner
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Mainfrog,
There is a need to respond to what amounts to a large amount of ignorant bull__ spouted about Ryanair, by those who actually don't have a clue.
You know what they say, 'where ignorance is present, fantasy reigns!'
As to the indefensible speculation about the 'Ryanair bubble burst'-er....I guess that means the SW, AirTran, Frontier bubbles still have to burst too, right?
A lot of this thread is made up of the very same speculation you all heavily criticise when a major airliner incident occurs....
There is a need to respond to what amounts to a large amount of ignorant bull__ spouted about Ryanair, by those who actually don't have a clue.
You know what they say, 'where ignorance is present, fantasy reigns!'
As to the indefensible speculation about the 'Ryanair bubble burst'-er....I guess that means the SW, AirTran, Frontier bubbles still have to burst too, right?
A lot of this thread is made up of the very same speculation you all heavily criticise when a major airliner incident occurs....
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Further to above post re:slow brains.
Share prices ARE subjective, and are determined in any free market by anticipated growth/current growth/how much you like company/is it worth a gamble/ etc..etc... I could go on. Some people may even buy shares in a particular company because they like the stationery. Daft, but true.
So, Whilst the current market capitalisation is a fact (which I don't deny), that value is based on the perception of all participating players in the given market. By its nature, IT IS A VERY SUBJECTIVE VALUATION. Ask two stockbrokers and they often give differing assessments for the same business.
As I have said before, it does not mean the business will be profitable or even exist a year from now. ( I should point out this is not a desire for ryanair or any airline to go under, just a fact).
. .To try to claim that Ryanair is Europe's biggest airline, is like trying to claim that BA is the world's favourite airline.
Share prices ARE subjective, and are determined in any free market by anticipated growth/current growth/how much you like company/is it worth a gamble/ etc..etc... I could go on. Some people may even buy shares in a particular company because they like the stationery. Daft, but true.
So, Whilst the current market capitalisation is a fact (which I don't deny), that value is based on the perception of all participating players in the given market. By its nature, IT IS A VERY SUBJECTIVE VALUATION. Ask two stockbrokers and they often give differing assessments for the same business.
As I have said before, it does not mean the business will be profitable or even exist a year from now. ( I should point out this is not a desire for ryanair or any airline to go under, just a fact).
. .To try to claim that Ryanair is Europe's biggest airline, is like trying to claim that BA is the world's favourite airline.
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As I understand it, the ad claimed that Ryanair was the biggest airline in Europe. By what criteria? On fleet size, departures, capitalisation, passenger figures, and anything else I can think of, it is eclipsed by other airlines (this is not just a comparison between Ryan and BA). So, as I see it, Ryanair is using misleading advertising. Again.. .I'd say that there isn't much future in that, as a couple of court cases against FR have recently shown. Is reasonable, accurate advertising beyond them? After all, they've got plenty they can legitimately shout about!
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thanks for finally adding reason to the post flypastpastfast.
I think a comparison with the dot coms is fair because of the similarities. People are excited about the lowcost carriers at the moment because they are generating and receiving a lot of publicity. Hence people are buying the shares and the price is rising. This may be because people are not considering the potential future earnings of the business at all or are very optimistic about the potential earnings. This is exactly what happened with the dot coms and they too became horribly overvalued -as we all found out!
Now if you were to ask me which company has the greater future earnings I would reckon BA which would then suggest that Ryanair is overpriced.
Now the technical geeky bit - if Ryanair is indeed overpriced and this can be exploited then this is know as 'Stock Market Inefficiency'.
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: ExiledTyke ]</p>
I think a comparison with the dot coms is fair because of the similarities. People are excited about the lowcost carriers at the moment because they are generating and receiving a lot of publicity. Hence people are buying the shares and the price is rising. This may be because people are not considering the potential future earnings of the business at all or are very optimistic about the potential earnings. This is exactly what happened with the dot coms and they too became horribly overvalued -as we all found out!
Now if you were to ask me which company has the greater future earnings I would reckon BA which would then suggest that Ryanair is overpriced.
Now the technical geeky bit - if Ryanair is indeed overpriced and this can be exploited then this is know as 'Stock Market Inefficiency'.
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: ExiledTyke ]</p>
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Now there I agree with you. It is true that the dot coms were not making any profit and didn't look as though they were ever going to but the markets seemed to convince themselves that one day they would.
I apologise if I gave the impression that I did not think that Ryanair was a profitable company - no one needs my opinions on that the financial reports speak for themsleves. The only point I am making (which I think we may agree on as your reference to excitement suggests) is that the company may be overvalued.
Now personally I would not expect to see Ryanair go the same way as the dotcoms but historically over valued businesses can get in to trouble - presumably becuase they find it too easy to raise debt which they then cannot afford to finance.
Whether or not Ryanair is overpriced or not, well only the future can tell.
Like others I have no ill feeling towards Ryanair. Just want to contribute to the quality of the discussion.
I apologise if I gave the impression that I did not think that Ryanair was a profitable company - no one needs my opinions on that the financial reports speak for themsleves. The only point I am making (which I think we may agree on as your reference to excitement suggests) is that the company may be overvalued.
Now personally I would not expect to see Ryanair go the same way as the dotcoms but historically over valued businesses can get in to trouble - presumably becuase they find it too easy to raise debt which they then cannot afford to finance.
Whether or not Ryanair is overpriced or not, well only the future can tell.
Like others I have no ill feeling towards Ryanair. Just want to contribute to the quality of the discussion.
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AJ, firstly, just because people are outside Ryanair doesn't mean they don't know a lot about what goes on inside.
Secondly, the bubble bursting reference was not to low-cost carriers. SW's bubble will not burst in the foreseeable future because they take care of their aircraft, their crews as if they were family, and their passengers as if they value their custom.
Secondly, the bubble bursting reference was not to low-cost carriers. SW's bubble will not burst in the foreseeable future because they take care of their aircraft, their crews as if they were family, and their passengers as if they value their custom.
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As pointed out you can't compare Ryanair to the Dot-coms because of course Ryanair make money in the here and now. They don't promise to make money 5 or 10 years down the line so there's no bubble to burst, they pull in huge revenues and have costs tightly controlled. I mean that's it, that's what every business should strive for.
For an airline to report an operating margin of 25% as Ryanair did at the end of last year is quite remarkable, especially bearing in mind the industry average amongst the top 150 airlines is 4.2%!!! BA's by the way was 1.57% Ryanairs profit margin was 23% again remarkable when the industry average was 1.1% BA'a was -1.34%.
Another key statistic is the companies Return On Equity, Ryans is 20% while BA's is -.44% this tells you that Ryanair are far more effective at using reinvested earnings to generate additional earnings, in other words they're putting good money back into the company while BA simply don't have the money to do that as their margins are so low.. .The only companies that have a bigger Mkt Cap than Ryan are Southwest and Lufthansa groupthat includes all Lufthansas ancillary services like Lufthansa maintenance etc.. .From a financial point of view Ryanair are a remarkable airline that have produced incredibly impressive results in a notoriously difficult industry. You surely must give credit to them for that.
For an airline to report an operating margin of 25% as Ryanair did at the end of last year is quite remarkable, especially bearing in mind the industry average amongst the top 150 airlines is 4.2%!!! BA's by the way was 1.57% Ryanairs profit margin was 23% again remarkable when the industry average was 1.1% BA'a was -1.34%.
Another key statistic is the companies Return On Equity, Ryans is 20% while BA's is -.44% this tells you that Ryanair are far more effective at using reinvested earnings to generate additional earnings, in other words they're putting good money back into the company while BA simply don't have the money to do that as their margins are so low.. .The only companies that have a bigger Mkt Cap than Ryan are Southwest and Lufthansa groupthat includes all Lufthansas ancillary services like Lufthansa maintenance etc.. .From a financial point of view Ryanair are a remarkable airline that have produced incredibly impressive results in a notoriously difficult industry. You surely must give credit to them for that.
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Whats with the downer on Ryanair! Let's not forget how many pilots they employ and how secure there jobs are compared to many others at that moment and that includes my airline - and I work for the national carrier !!!!
Ok, so the pay and conditions may not be great and MOL may not be the best boss then don't work in low cost - I can tell you the problems and issues are no different, especially in STN's other low cost airline...
Ok, so the pay and conditions may not be great and MOL may not be the best boss then don't work in low cost - I can tell you the problems and issues are no different, especially in STN's other low cost airline...
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I've got no downer on ryan air the product. great job mol. I just think it's amusing listening to a bunch of guy's who 5 years ago couldn't get a decent job anywhere else telling us all were doomed to the dole and we deserve it for having the audacity to work for any full service airline.
Whilst sitting in first, surrounded by my family, sipping my krug i often wish i'd applied to work for ryan. Horse's for course's and all that. As someone else said .. good job mol for employing all those pilot's. I'm glad i'm not one of them though.. .couldn't give a fig for who's bigger. Far to busy enjoying my 6 day's off and planning my next jolly.
Whilst sitting in first, surrounded by my family, sipping my krug i often wish i'd applied to work for ryan. Horse's for course's and all that. As someone else said .. good job mol for employing all those pilot's. I'm glad i'm not one of them though.. .couldn't give a fig for who's bigger. Far to busy enjoying my 6 day's off and planning my next jolly.
