BALPA and BA talks breakdown
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: London
I find it hard to believe that talks have broken down already.
In this age of mass globalisation it is a fact (however unwelcome) that employees cannot entirely dictate terms and conditions to their employers in the same way they could 20 or 30 years ago. No matter how deeply felt the pain and frustration you feel towards BA, the *only* winners in this dispute will be BA's competitiors.
According to the BBC report (online) your terms and conditions are amongst the best in the industry and your employer has already agreed to ensure that they will remain unaffected by the new OS subsidiary - to insist that the "BA family" shouldn't be "broken up" is not going to gain you the sympathy of the public or wash as a reason for striking as it seems no more that trying to ringfence your way of life - a luxury that unfortunately few working people have today (and compared to say losing a manufacturing job without prospect of reemployment...?)
I honestly share the pain of those who are facing a future of uncertainty change (that's most of us at work!) but don't allow the union to back you into a corner and lose what support you do have.
You may win a minor victory by striking - but what then? If you think a strike will stop future changes (both within BA and other airlines), it may be time to question Balpa's handling of OS. To an outsider like me, they seem somewhat out of touch with reality.
In this age of mass globalisation it is a fact (however unwelcome) that employees cannot entirely dictate terms and conditions to their employers in the same way they could 20 or 30 years ago. No matter how deeply felt the pain and frustration you feel towards BA, the *only* winners in this dispute will be BA's competitiors.
According to the BBC report (online) your terms and conditions are amongst the best in the industry and your employer has already agreed to ensure that they will remain unaffected by the new OS subsidiary - to insist that the "BA family" shouldn't be "broken up" is not going to gain you the sympathy of the public or wash as a reason for striking as it seems no more that trying to ringfence your way of life - a luxury that unfortunately few working people have today (and compared to say losing a manufacturing job without prospect of reemployment...?)
I honestly share the pain of those who are facing a future of uncertainty change (that's most of us at work!) but don't allow the union to back you into a corner and lose what support you do have.
You may win a minor victory by striking - but what then? If you think a strike will stop future changes (both within BA and other airlines), it may be time to question Balpa's handling of OS. To an outsider like me, they seem somewhat out of touch with reality.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: UK
Pedroboy,
I cannot speak with any authority as I am just a member of BALPA. However, I think these injunction cases are dealt with pretty swiftly, so if the judge decides on Monday 10th to permit a strike, BALPA would probably give the requisite 7 days' notice shortly thereafter. So a strike could begin on the 17th at the earliest, which would probably curtail your family's visit I'm afraid. If they are able to change their plans now, I should think that would be a good idea. Alternatively, hang onto the tickets and travel at a later date.
I cannot speak with any authority as I am just a member of BALPA. However, I think these injunction cases are dealt with pretty swiftly, so if the judge decides on Monday 10th to permit a strike, BALPA would probably give the requisite 7 days' notice shortly thereafter. So a strike could begin on the 17th at the earliest, which would probably curtail your family's visit I'm afraid. If they are able to change their plans now, I should think that would be a good idea. Alternatively, hang onto the tickets and travel at a later date.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Singapore
I cannot believe you guys are considering strike action over this - being a Luddite is obviously a requirement for employment as a pilot with BA. Or perhaps more accurately you have to be a Luddite to belong to BALPA.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: London
No - I don't work for BA or Balpa or Virgin or anyone even remotely concerned with the airline industry.
I do fly though!
Are BA desperate? They sound fairly confident to me. One thing I do know from dealing with businesses (big and small) over the last few decades, is that they get where they want to go increasingly without a thought to what their employees want or expect. That is the true (and horribly harsh) lesson to be learned from globalisation.
Sadly I just don't think the airline industry is immune from this effect and that things will get worse before they get better (if they ever do?) OS seems to me to be just the start of very far ranging changes for all - one strike isn't going to change that. Sad but true.
I do fly though!
Are BA desperate? They sound fairly confident to me. One thing I do know from dealing with businesses (big and small) over the last few decades, is that they get where they want to go increasingly without a thought to what their employees want or expect. That is the true (and horribly harsh) lesson to be learned from globalisation.
Sadly I just don't think the airline industry is immune from this effect and that things will get worse before they get better (if they ever do?) OS seems to me to be just the start of very far ranging changes for all - one strike isn't going to change that. Sad but true.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: UK
I am not a BA manager, I am actually a student at King's College who hasnt seen his family in seven months. I have been waiting for September for my family to come, and I simply cannot believe that this is happening.
Any one else with any advice and suggestions?
Any one else with any advice and suggestions?
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Singapore
Well the original Luddite was an individual who didn't want to see any improvement in efficiency in the cotton mills of old. Isn't this what you BALPA guys are up to by opposing the BA attempt to profit from the new open skies agreement?
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: "Big silver bird in sky"
As a member of BALPA & a BA pilot (I do apologise) I can assure you that the BACC do not want to screw around with our passengers or mess up the T5 move. Unfortunately due process has to be followed, concilliation,courts etc and only then will a (hopefully not) strike date be announced. There is no sinister subtext as far as I am aware to cause more pain to our customers especially around the holiday period.
We are not luddites and I was brought up in a mining/mill family up north, to compare a failing manual industry with a booming service sector is ridiculous and unnecessarily emotive.
Lets hope it will be resolved, however can assure those of you 'outside' the BA pilot community our resolve of the mainly reasonable moderate, senior/junior, P1/P2 shorthaul/longhaul is very firm.
We are not luddites and I was brought up in a mining/mill family up north, to compare a failing manual industry with a booming service sector is ridiculous and unnecessarily emotive.
Lets hope it will be resolved, however can assure those of you 'outside' the BA pilot community our resolve of the mainly reasonable moderate, senior/junior, P1/P2 shorthaul/longhaul is very firm.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
From: Camp X-Ray
Perhaps it's because most of the 'cogent' arguments are from people who post exclusively on this subject, deliberately miss the point of the debate and rattle off points that look eerily similar to BAs corporate communication pieces?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
From: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Again SQL, the luddites wre against the TECHNOLOGY advances (which in turn would have taken jobs from them). The issue was the use of machinery replacing people, NOT "improving efficiency", etc.
Now, stop trying to twist history.
Now, stop trying to twist history.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
People seem to be criticising BA pilots for standing up for themselves purely on the basis that no one else has got away with doing so for a decade or two, so why should we? Just because others do not stand united to do what is right, does not mean we should follow suit! If you are convinced we will not be able to pull it off, fine that is your opinion. Why not wish us luck and wait and see?
If you are a member of the travelling public, I am sorry this might cause you concern or inconvenience, or even distress. You can send your complaints to BA management. We are simply the pilots, and we are exercising our right to defend our terms and conditions. We have no say over what management decide to do. We can try to influence them, but if they want us to go to a strike, we will. It is that simple.
As for any managers who may or may not be trying to stir up trouble here; who honestly gives a monkeys? I have zero respect for our management, just as they quite clearly have zero respect for me.
If you are a member of the travelling public, I am sorry this might cause you concern or inconvenience, or even distress. You can send your complaints to BA management. We are simply the pilots, and we are exercising our right to defend our terms and conditions. We have no say over what management decide to do. We can try to influence them, but if they want us to go to a strike, we will. It is that simple.
As for any managers who may or may not be trying to stir up trouble here; who honestly gives a monkeys? I have zero respect for our management, just as they quite clearly have zero respect for me.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
I am amazed by the number of posters that begrudge other citizens their legal rights. Is it not a legal right to strike in the United Kingdom any more?
Let us hope that these posters are not put into a similar position and not only have to battle their employer for decent Terms and Conditions, but put up with sniping and belittling from their neighbours and the general public.
Let us hope that these posters are not put into a similar position and not only have to battle their employer for decent Terms and Conditions, but put up with sniping and belittling from their neighbours and the general public.