Singapore Airlines Recruiting Policy?
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Singapore Airlines Recruiting Policy?
Heard a story from a friend down in Singapore the other day, that he thinks is probably true. Singapore Airlines interviewed a bunch of Indian Airlines pilots for the 777, sim checked them on type and sent out offer letters for these guys to join the fleet. When they duly pitched up in Singapore “the situation had changed” and SIA told ‘em that there were now only vacancies on the 310 fleet. The Indian drivers then 180’d and returned to IA!
My buddy says that SIA is pretty short of drivers for the 777 but is even more desperate to get fresh fodder onto the 310 so as to release long serving/suffering crews off this airplane on to something better and off the really crap cash and onto the marginally better rates on the bigger machines. The IA guys would have taken a major pay drop on the 310 and a minor one on the 777, but they wanted to notch up on technology.
What I find disturbing is that a major airline like SIA would apparently resort to bare faced lies and deception to get drivers along under the false pretence of joining one fleet and then shove them on another at the last moment. Any truth in all this?
My buddy says that SIA is pretty short of drivers for the 777 but is even more desperate to get fresh fodder onto the 310 so as to release long serving/suffering crews off this airplane on to something better and off the really crap cash and onto the marginally better rates on the bigger machines. The IA guys would have taken a major pay drop on the 310 and a minor one on the 777, but they wanted to notch up on technology.
What I find disturbing is that a major airline like SIA would apparently resort to bare faced lies and deception to get drivers along under the false pretence of joining one fleet and then shove them on another at the last moment. Any truth in all this?
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Do not be unduly disturbed by anecdotal evidence of the lengths to which SQ will go in their quest to achieve their aims (read cost cut targets) – what you write of is SOP for the present flt ops management and is regarded as the normal cut and thrust of industrial relations. As it happens, I can lend support to your narrative, as I had heard the story first hand a month ago from an ex Air India, SQ colleague, who knows two of the Indian Airlines pilots personally. Such, in fact, is the reputation of SQ on the sub-continent (and indeed world-wide), that the guys wisely refrained from tendering their resignations to IA and merely took extended leave until they were able to judge the situation in SQ land! Smart guys!
You may be interested to note that a similar situation arose 3-4 years ago when a group of South African pilots, all 747 qualified, took extended leave from SAA, to join SQ on either the –300 or –400 fleet, the latter badly in need of a pilot influx. When they arrived in Singapore with families and possessions in tow, they similarly found that “the situation had changed” and they were then obliged to train on the 340 fleet or return to SA, suffering substantial financial penalty. The reason for this? SQ needed to bond and bank guarantee the pilots (S$300,000/S$45,000 – the latter in up front cash to a Singapore bank to provide collateral for the BG!) so that when they quickly realized the mistake they had made in joining SQ, they could not just resign and find another job elsewhere. As it happened SAA financially underwrote the pilots but any early leavers (before five years) would have to come to a settlement with SAA, to refund the settlement required of SAA by SQ.
If your posting is an oblique fishing trip to gauge the advisability of applying to SQ, may I paraphrase GBS in his “advice to those about to …. – don’t”. What happened to the Indian and the South African groups has happened to dozens of individuals in their dealings with the “world’s best airline” and could indeed happen to you. The situation has not changed – SQ is desperate for 310 pilots and will go to any lengths to fill the vacant slots, so, although you may interview for and be offered a fancy type, you may end up consigned to three years or so as a galley slave on this self same fleet – that is unless, of course, you are already 310 qualified, in which case you would never go near the fleet, in an un-bonded state but would guarantee to go (bonded and BG’ed) to a fancier fleet (still on very poor pay). Isn’t life great in Wonderland?
Whilst I am writing on this theme, perhaps those UK pilots considering applying for London basings on the SQ 744 fleet may wish to consider a couple of points:
1. The intention is shortly to advertise these positions in FI using the newly offered pay scales in the ad series. As these scales are currently under Singapore Industrial Arbitration Court binding arbitration proceedings, the outcome of which is far from certain, this move may be considered somewhat ambitious and, indeed, the “situation may have changed” again for any pilot who accepts the Republic’s shilling and arrives to start the indoctrination course at rates somewhat below those expected.
2. The UK Inland Revenue is now fully up to speed on Singapore Airlines (Mauritius) Ltd – the employing company for this particular exercise and will shortly be bringing to bear the full weight of IR investigations on ex BA 744 fleet employees who presently purport to be non-resident UK (Cyprus seems to be the vogue for accommodation addresses) and who top up their BA pensions with the little earners from SQ. Those future ex BA employees who wisely do not attempt this little dodge may care to tot up the tax bill on pension and projected SQ earnings and then weigh the incremental after-tax benefit gained from joining SQ.
Good luck to all aspirants.
You may be interested to note that a similar situation arose 3-4 years ago when a group of South African pilots, all 747 qualified, took extended leave from SAA, to join SQ on either the –300 or –400 fleet, the latter badly in need of a pilot influx. When they arrived in Singapore with families and possessions in tow, they similarly found that “the situation had changed” and they were then obliged to train on the 340 fleet or return to SA, suffering substantial financial penalty. The reason for this? SQ needed to bond and bank guarantee the pilots (S$300,000/S$45,000 – the latter in up front cash to a Singapore bank to provide collateral for the BG!) so that when they quickly realized the mistake they had made in joining SQ, they could not just resign and find another job elsewhere. As it happened SAA financially underwrote the pilots but any early leavers (before five years) would have to come to a settlement with SAA, to refund the settlement required of SAA by SQ.
If your posting is an oblique fishing trip to gauge the advisability of applying to SQ, may I paraphrase GBS in his “advice to those about to …. – don’t”. What happened to the Indian and the South African groups has happened to dozens of individuals in their dealings with the “world’s best airline” and could indeed happen to you. The situation has not changed – SQ is desperate for 310 pilots and will go to any lengths to fill the vacant slots, so, although you may interview for and be offered a fancy type, you may end up consigned to three years or so as a galley slave on this self same fleet – that is unless, of course, you are already 310 qualified, in which case you would never go near the fleet, in an un-bonded state but would guarantee to go (bonded and BG’ed) to a fancier fleet (still on very poor pay). Isn’t life great in Wonderland?
Whilst I am writing on this theme, perhaps those UK pilots considering applying for London basings on the SQ 744 fleet may wish to consider a couple of points:
1. The intention is shortly to advertise these positions in FI using the newly offered pay scales in the ad series. As these scales are currently under Singapore Industrial Arbitration Court binding arbitration proceedings, the outcome of which is far from certain, this move may be considered somewhat ambitious and, indeed, the “situation may have changed” again for any pilot who accepts the Republic’s shilling and arrives to start the indoctrination course at rates somewhat below those expected.
2. The UK Inland Revenue is now fully up to speed on Singapore Airlines (Mauritius) Ltd – the employing company for this particular exercise and will shortly be bringing to bear the full weight of IR investigations on ex BA 744 fleet employees who presently purport to be non-resident UK (Cyprus seems to be the vogue for accommodation addresses) and who top up their BA pensions with the little earners from SQ. Those future ex BA employees who wisely do not attempt this little dodge may care to tot up the tax bill on pension and projected SQ earnings and then weigh the incremental after-tax benefit gained from joining SQ.
Good luck to all aspirants.
Guest
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A good month for expenses on the SQ A310 at the moment is S$400/month. As any SQ pilot will tell you, its the flying and expenses that make ends meet at the end of the month. Short sectors with no night stops, well, you're down to just your basic.And as we all know, the A310 pays substantially less than other SQ fleets.
Traditionally on the 310,& in SQ generally, rostering will have there wicked way with you, if you dare to request a trip that was deemed to be a "desirable" one. Yes, you may have your request granted, but a couple of months down the road, and they would reep their revenge. Four sectors, four sectors, four sectors, 1 day off, four sectors, two sectors (midnight express) etc. Net gain to you, zero, you will lose money from all the short flying, be very tired, agitated, then be told that the leave you had put in for 9 months ago, to be with your kids when they graduate from high school, has just been taken away, and you'll be on standby for a week.
Thankfully, not my problem now , but wannabe aspirants, be aware, be very aware.
Traditionally on the 310,& in SQ generally, rostering will have there wicked way with you, if you dare to request a trip that was deemed to be a "desirable" one. Yes, you may have your request granted, but a couple of months down the road, and they would reep their revenge. Four sectors, four sectors, four sectors, 1 day off, four sectors, two sectors (midnight express) etc. Net gain to you, zero, you will lose money from all the short flying, be very tired, agitated, then be told that the leave you had put in for 9 months ago, to be with your kids when they graduate from high school, has just been taken away, and you'll be on standby for a week.
Thankfully, not my problem now , but wannabe aspirants, be aware, be very aware.
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SIA sniffer,
Thank you for your enlightening post. Could you please elaborate, "4 sectors, 4 sectors, 4 sectors, 1 day off, 4 sectors, 2 sectors (mightnight express) etc" for those like me not in SQ and also for the new aspirants. Could you please tell about the route too. Thanks in advance.
Thank you for your enlightening post. Could you please elaborate, "4 sectors, 4 sectors, 4 sectors, 1 day off, 4 sectors, 2 sectors (mightnight express) etc" for those like me not in SQ and also for the new aspirants. Could you please tell about the route too. Thanks in advance.
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Why do airlines still offer different pay for the same work? Flying the A310 is not easier than the B747-400, and it is propably harder than the B777. Good judgement is needed in all types and should be reflected in the payscale. This should be the primary source of income, and the extra you get for being abroad should cover just that, the extra expense for dining out and so on.
Only then can every pilot bid for the aircraft that suits him best. And the airline will avoid paying for additional type ratings for pilots to move sideways.
Only then can every pilot bid for the aircraft that suits him best. And the airline will avoid paying for additional type ratings for pilots to move sideways.
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Typical roster A310
Day 1 4 sectors 3hrs 20
2 2 6 40
3 3 5 00 night stop
4 3 3 45
5 off
6 2 9 30
7 2 6 40
8 off
9/10 2 7 40 all night hrs
11/12 OFF!!!
Keeps you off the street, nearly all in the same time zone, 5 different countries, 4 different MEL's, 6 different F/O's, 60+ cabin crew of all shapes and sizes.
0400 is still when my bones like to be in bed but not too much of that on the A-310
Day 1 4 sectors 3hrs 20
2 2 6 40
3 3 5 00 night stop
4 3 3 45
5 off
6 2 9 30
7 2 6 40
8 off
9/10 2 7 40 all night hrs
11/12 OFF!!!
Keeps you off the street, nearly all in the same time zone, 5 different countries, 4 different MEL's, 6 different F/O's, 60+ cabin crew of all shapes and sizes.
0400 is still when my bones like to be in bed but not too much of that on the A-310
Guest
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SIA's recruiting policy is considered normal in Singapore. In fact it is 'corporate culture', be it employment or purchasing consumer goods.
If you cannot take advantage and exploit the employee/customer, then the employee/customer is not wanted.
In the West (most) they bend over backwards to keep the employee/customer happy, the result is loyalty/more business.
They will figure it out, it might just take 50 years or so.
If you cannot take advantage and exploit the employee/customer, then the employee/customer is not wanted.
In the West (most) they bend over backwards to keep the employee/customer happy, the result is loyalty/more business.
They will figure it out, it might just take 50 years or so.
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Rumour has it that a very great number of expat employees are being briefed by some Cathay pilots how to organise the Cathay sick scheme, which was used last year. It seems that all this industrial battling is very bad for the nerves of the pilots, and that they might need some stress-rest.
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SINGAPORE (AP) - Singapore Airlines has ordered 10 Boeing 777-200
aircraft and has options to buy 10 more planes in a deal with a
total value of about $4 billion. The planes will replace Singapore
Airline's existing fleet of Airbus A310-300s, the airline said
Wednesday. The airline said the 20 aircraft, to be delivered between
2003 and 2009, will be used mainly on regional routes, but will be
suitable for longer routes if required. As with previous orders, it
expects to finance the purchase largely from its cash flow, but
added that if necessary, the airline "will consider borrowing or
leasing." The airline is phasing out its A310-300 fleet, with 13
still in operation. The last A310 aircraft will be retired from the
operating fleet in 2006. The airline operates 91 aircraft,
comprising 777-200s and -300s, 747-400s, A340-300s and A310-300s.
http://airlinebiz.com/wire/02142001#MAIN (See Full Story!)
*** Continential CEO says "
aircraft and has options to buy 10 more planes in a deal with a
total value of about $4 billion. The planes will replace Singapore
Airline's existing fleet of Airbus A310-300s, the airline said
Wednesday. The airline said the 20 aircraft, to be delivered between
2003 and 2009, will be used mainly on regional routes, but will be
suitable for longer routes if required. As with previous orders, it
expects to finance the purchase largely from its cash flow, but
added that if necessary, the airline "will consider borrowing or
leasing." The airline is phasing out its A310-300 fleet, with 13
still in operation. The last A310 aircraft will be retired from the
operating fleet in 2006. The airline operates 91 aircraft,
comprising 777-200s and -300s, 747-400s, A340-300s and A310-300s.
http://airlinebiz.com/wire/02142001#MAIN (See Full Story!)
*** Continential CEO says "
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Quite some time ago (1980) a B747 was delayed in DXB for about four hours due tech.
When the aircraft landed in ZRH, the crew, having been on duty for over 12 hours, elected to go to hotac, rather than extend their duty period and continue to AMS. Note that this was permitted by company policy, as extension was SCD. When the crew returned to SIN they were summoned to Airline House and summarily terminated. The Captain (expat) was intending to leave to join SV and did so. The F/O found himself in the army three days later as his National Service had been deferred previously due to his employment with SQ. All were reinstated after a VERY long court case (except the Captain, who remained at SV). Considering the rather authoritarian nature of SQ management, it would appear that if those expats at SQ would like to engage in a "CX style" action, they would have a difficult time indeed.
When the aircraft landed in ZRH, the crew, having been on duty for over 12 hours, elected to go to hotac, rather than extend their duty period and continue to AMS. Note that this was permitted by company policy, as extension was SCD. When the crew returned to SIN they were summoned to Airline House and summarily terminated. The Captain (expat) was intending to leave to join SV and did so. The F/O found himself in the army three days later as his National Service had been deferred previously due to his employment with SQ. All were reinstated after a VERY long court case (except the Captain, who remained at SV). Considering the rather authoritarian nature of SQ management, it would appear that if those expats at SQ would like to engage in a "CX style" action, they would have a difficult time indeed.
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I guess my post has stired a real hornets nest here. I had vaguely considered the idea of applying to SIA to see what was on offer but from the responses read so far, I guess I wont bother now. I must say, when I do make currency conversion on the pay rates they offer in the back of Flight (is this the joke section?) I can't believe that anyone works for that kind of garbage pay!
Most of the postings I've read seem pretty sincere but is it really so bad in SIA or am I reading the ire of a few malcontents (I keep seeing the same names making the postings)? I had heard that the Republic was considered totalitarian but if what you say is true, it seems even more of a disincentive to work for SIA and I can't see why anyone bothers being there.
Most of the postings I've read seem pretty sincere but is it really so bad in SIA or am I reading the ire of a few malcontents (I keep seeing the same names making the postings)? I had heard that the Republic was considered totalitarian but if what you say is true, it seems even more of a disincentive to work for SIA and I can't see why anyone bothers being there.
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Anotherpost75
Please be assured that just about everything you read on this web site about SQ is absolutely accurate and that despite seeing regular “posters”, what they have to say truly reflects the feelings and intense frustrations of most SQ pilots, at the use and abuse which they are the recipients of, at the hands of the SQ flight ops management.
In particular, you may recall my drawing your attention to the SQ bond/bank guarantee (S$300,000/S$45,000) that keeps us from leaving a company, the management of which we have grown to loath. In addition to this formalised disincentive to the exercise of our right to free movement of labour, which, hitherto, we had all taken for granted, is an “informal” bonding situation provided by the management’s habitual stalling strategy on pay/allowance negotiations. The present Collective Agreement (CA) is now over 2 years overdue for settlement and large amounts of cash are owed to the pilots in back pay. This cash owing is cynically used to discourage movement of labour by dragging out payment to the last moment and is, incidentally, also used to contribute to the cash flow funding of aircraft.
Would you really consider coming to work for such a company?
Please be assured that just about everything you read on this web site about SQ is absolutely accurate and that despite seeing regular “posters”, what they have to say truly reflects the feelings and intense frustrations of most SQ pilots, at the use and abuse which they are the recipients of, at the hands of the SQ flight ops management.
In particular, you may recall my drawing your attention to the SQ bond/bank guarantee (S$300,000/S$45,000) that keeps us from leaving a company, the management of which we have grown to loath. In addition to this formalised disincentive to the exercise of our right to free movement of labour, which, hitherto, we had all taken for granted, is an “informal” bonding situation provided by the management’s habitual stalling strategy on pay/allowance negotiations. The present Collective Agreement (CA) is now over 2 years overdue for settlement and large amounts of cash are owed to the pilots in back pay. This cash owing is cynically used to discourage movement of labour by dragging out payment to the last moment and is, incidentally, also used to contribute to the cash flow funding of aircraft.
Would you really consider coming to work for such a company?
Guest
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if i may suggest my 2 rupiah worth of thought.Everyone knows how SQ is as an employer, so why not give it a miss and join another airline.Why is there still questions on how SQ is, in recruiting.For those who aspire to join, beware of the job conditions and lifestyle.