Singapore Airlines Recruiting Policy?
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Any truth in the rumour that SIA is now scouring the Latin American third level carriers for 737/DC9 pilots to turn them into 777 captains?
I'd heard that they had a few takers but that they could not afford to upfront the S$45,000 for the bank guarantee and so could not come along. Could this possibly be the begining of the end for SIA bonding/bg's or am I being wildly optimistic?
Also, does the travelling public know of this potentially serious dilution of experience up in the sharp end of the airplanes?
I'd heard that they had a few takers but that they could not afford to upfront the S$45,000 for the bank guarantee and so could not come along. Could this possibly be the begining of the end for SIA bonding/bg's or am I being wildly optimistic?
Also, does the travelling public know of this potentially serious dilution of experience up in the sharp end of the airplanes?
Guest
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SIA flirted with Russians, then Indians, and now it looks like South Americans. Always looking elsewhere for that utopian pilot, but never realising that the nationality of their pilots isn't the problem, it is their system.
So why is it that the downtown Singapore walk-in interview style of recruitment isn't working? Any takers?
So why is it that the downtown Singapore walk-in interview style of recruitment isn't working? Any takers?
Guest
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Can anybody explain to me the difference between that sort of recruiting policy and the dodgier shipowners who run their vessels under "flags of convenience" to enable them to employ "slave labour" at rates that are attractive relative to the "local" ecomomy but are really exploitation in the real world and to pay lip service only to the international safety requirements.
A recent sea and environmental disaster on our South Coast involved a fairly new ship with a crew with "accepted" qualifications but barely out of school on slave rates.
We occasionally "arrest" ships until the pitiful crew conditions are sorted or until they are paid whatever pittance owing.
What astounds me is the mentality that promotes this sort of behaviour.
For an airline that promotes the idea that they are world leaders you would imagine that they would have a queue down the street and around the corner of highly experienced and qualified crew.
That they do not have is a bit scary. They just don't get it. They have got so many things right except the very thing that will bring them undone.
A recent sea and environmental disaster on our South Coast involved a fairly new ship with a crew with "accepted" qualifications but barely out of school on slave rates.
We occasionally "arrest" ships until the pitiful crew conditions are sorted or until they are paid whatever pittance owing.
What astounds me is the mentality that promotes this sort of behaviour.
For an airline that promotes the idea that they are world leaders you would imagine that they would have a queue down the street and around the corner of highly experienced and qualified crew.
That they do not have is a bit scary. They just don't get it. They have got so many things right except the very thing that will bring them undone.
Guest
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Perhaps, readers here may also wish to read within the Pprune Far East Forumn "Thoughts from an almost SIA Pilot".
SIA is of the opinion that they can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them. Somehow, I just do no feel that way!!!
SIA is of the opinion that they can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them. Somehow, I just do no feel that way!!!
Guest
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I guess I can confirm a part of the posting that mentions SIA scouring Latin America for likely 777 command material.
My buddy down in Lah Lah Land tells me that the "worlds best airline" recently hired some Brazilian pilots from VASP for the job - it turned out these guys could shell out the S$45,000 for the BG. Only problem was, the english these guys had just about streched to "where is my pay check please"? Not to be daunted, SIA sent them to english school to learn their full lines - desperate or what?
To date, two have left already, to much better pay and treatment, while the rest are still on "the cat sat at the mat", "see john, see jane" and "do the lessons include a meal allowance" stage!
Certainly does sound like the bottom of the barrel is being scraped!!
My buddy down in Lah Lah Land tells me that the "worlds best airline" recently hired some Brazilian pilots from VASP for the job - it turned out these guys could shell out the S$45,000 for the BG. Only problem was, the english these guys had just about streched to "where is my pay check please"? Not to be daunted, SIA sent them to english school to learn their full lines - desperate or what?
To date, two have left already, to much better pay and treatment, while the rest are still on "the cat sat at the mat", "see john, see jane" and "do the lessons include a meal allowance" stage!
Certainly does sound like the bottom of the barrel is being scraped!!
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Ran into a couple of ex Lauder 777 drivers up in Seoul, a short time ago, both working on contract for KAL. The conversation immediately turned to pay/conditions/etc and the gist of the conversation was:
1. They and all their ex-pat colleagues are extremely happy working for KAL as they are treated with great courtesy, respect and consideration at all times by the management. They are both of the opinion that in the past, KAL has got it wrong and guys have just pushed off in disgust and the management has now realised this fundamental error and has taken concrete steps to correct it.
2. The local pilots treat them with the same respect as they have finally realised that use of ex-pat pilots allows for rapid KAL expansion, hence more aircraft and so more “local” commands!
3. Starting salary is, per month, 10,200 USD on the 777, 12,500 on the 744 – S$17,750/S$21,750. 20 days on in Korea/10days off at home. Five star hotel when in Korea or down route. Per dium in Korea and down route. Firm booked first class back home for the 10 days each month. Unlimited ID90’s. Salary amounts are after Korean tax so no problems with the taxman back home if domicile country has a Double Taxation Treaty with Korea – most do.
4. They understand that the 777 may be shortly basing in Oz and the 744 fleet is certainly basing Europe/Oz/Us.
They say check with Rishworth and Euro Pacific as these agents may be giving an even better amount of cash. Also they will be able to give full details of further benefits plus annual/end of contract bonuses/overtime agreements.
1. They and all their ex-pat colleagues are extremely happy working for KAL as they are treated with great courtesy, respect and consideration at all times by the management. They are both of the opinion that in the past, KAL has got it wrong and guys have just pushed off in disgust and the management has now realised this fundamental error and has taken concrete steps to correct it.
2. The local pilots treat them with the same respect as they have finally realised that use of ex-pat pilots allows for rapid KAL expansion, hence more aircraft and so more “local” commands!
3. Starting salary is, per month, 10,200 USD on the 777, 12,500 on the 744 – S$17,750/S$21,750. 20 days on in Korea/10days off at home. Five star hotel when in Korea or down route. Per dium in Korea and down route. Firm booked first class back home for the 10 days each month. Unlimited ID90’s. Salary amounts are after Korean tax so no problems with the taxman back home if domicile country has a Double Taxation Treaty with Korea – most do.
4. They understand that the 777 may be shortly basing in Oz and the 744 fleet is certainly basing Europe/Oz/Us.
They say check with Rishworth and Euro Pacific as these agents may be giving an even better amount of cash. Also they will be able to give full details of further benefits plus annual/end of contract bonuses/overtime agreements.
Guest
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You can be sure that those South American pilots have bigger houses, better and more cars per family, have traveled to more countries, speak more languages, have prettier girls, have a much wider culture than some of the pilots in Western Europe or Australasia. The standard of living for the medium high or high class in Latin America may surprise many of you.
Also if the Brazilians fly the 777 the same way they drive the F1 cars, they must be very good.
Also if the Brazilians fly the 777 the same way they drive the F1 cars, they must be very good.
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Insider107. I echo your sentiments entirely about S.I.A. Do we all expect The I.A.C. on the 12th to rubber stamp the company"s offer?If we do not get our full back pay I personally will go into full uncooperation mode and I hope all the rest will too,but I will not hold my breath!Most pilots are all talk and no action.Would you not agree?
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The IAC rubber-stamping the so called "agreement" is a forgone conclusion.
Many will leave after the back-pay is settled, may it be the full amount or just 6 months.
The pilots who can do both talk and action are those who have alternative employment lined up or who are no longer bonded.
If flight ops think that crew morale is low now (mdv has said that there is no problem with morale as no flight has been cancelled or delayed, still having enough crew to fly), wait till after SQ ram the "agreement" through IAC.
The idea is to pi$$-off those on a higher pay scale encumbent batch and replace them with new pilots who draws minimum pay to keep the cost down.
Many will leave after the back-pay is settled, may it be the full amount or just 6 months.
The pilots who can do both talk and action are those who have alternative employment lined up or who are no longer bonded.
If flight ops think that crew morale is low now (mdv has said that there is no problem with morale as no flight has been cancelled or delayed, still having enough crew to fly), wait till after SQ ram the "agreement" through IAC.
The idea is to pi$$-off those on a higher pay scale encumbent batch and replace them with new pilots who draws minimum pay to keep the cost down.
Guest
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......my dear friends, let us not hope for anything good on the 12th at IAC. All will get what actually they deserve. ALPA-S the only trade union seen with no capability for any industrial action, so what can be expected out of such outfit. Atleast the people can go on non-cooperation with Flt. Ops. management. I wonder how we drivers are sticking here, I sure even the truckers any where will have better bargaining powers.
But SIA the funny thing is, however, we guys are treated by the company...everybody is still loyal to the company. People still make efforts to every drop of gas to inflate the bottom line of SIA. Is it to get more bonus ha..ha..ha.. what a pity, foder here is not bothered about the basic pay, but the bonus. We all hear that pilots' moral is low in SIA. This should be conveyed to the LG Bay by employees actions. I heard y'day that some Airforce chief is taking over as SVP(Flt Ops)....any truth in that?
But SIA the funny thing is, however, we guys are treated by the company...everybody is still loyal to the company. People still make efforts to every drop of gas to inflate the bottom line of SIA. Is it to get more bonus ha..ha..ha.. what a pity, foder here is not bothered about the basic pay, but the bonus. We all hear that pilots' moral is low in SIA. This should be conveyed to the LG Bay by employees actions. I heard y'day that some Airforce chief is taking over as SVP(Flt Ops)....any truth in that?
Guest
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Seems there is a secret deal going on behind closed doors (naturally!). TKP reckons that we will get the back pay, dressed in different clothing and the Pres + Exec Committee will be made to look the horses a***es they are.
Looks like the days of Exec Comm aspirants to Maurice's stable of brown nosers management fodder are now numbered. EVPT seems to be taking seriously OSIG suggestions that a quick move into management after screwing the ALPAS management really is not ethical!
Looks like the days of Exec Comm aspirants to Maurice's stable of brown nosers management fodder are now numbered. EVPT seems to be taking seriously OSIG suggestions that a quick move into management after screwing the ALPAS management really is not ethical!
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Back pay to be back payed. You heard it here first! SIA to pay the back pay, even though not required by law.Dancing in the sychophantic streets. How flattering.I dont care as I'm free. We are Legion.
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 07 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 07 March 2001).]
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I hear on the grapevine that Maurice will be spending more time with his family from July 1st! ie being sacked!! Yet another military man rumoured to take over his job. Anyone else heard of this. Will everything be settled on the 12th at IAC or will it drag on??
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Gypsy I think you heard it right. I had mention in my post that even I heard that some chief of airforce's name has been cleared by the govt. to take over as the new SVP Flt Ops of the company.
Insider107 could be right as the rumor among the cadre is the there is likelyhood of some backdoor settlement about the back pay. Lets keep our finger crossed, hoping to get any money from SIA is like milking the bull with a hope to have a cup of white coffee. Lets see how the coffe is gonna taste.
Hey I heard from some 310 guys that they are being upgraded to 777 fleet 'cos the management has been able to woo some of MAS 737 guys to fly 310 here and they are taking some of the guy even with 737-200, with zero FMS and no glass experience...... what a desperate move. Anyway good luck guys... welcome to the slavery stable. Its better to be here as they keep you than being an alien among the bhumiputras
Insider107 could be right as the rumor among the cadre is the there is likelyhood of some backdoor settlement about the back pay. Lets keep our finger crossed, hoping to get any money from SIA is like milking the bull with a hope to have a cup of white coffee. Lets see how the coffe is gonna taste.
Hey I heard from some 310 guys that they are being upgraded to 777 fleet 'cos the management has been able to woo some of MAS 737 guys to fly 310 here and they are taking some of the guy even with 737-200, with zero FMS and no glass experience...... what a desperate move. Anyway good luck guys... welcome to the slavery stable. Its better to be here as they keep you than being an alien among the bhumiputras
Guest
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Twitchy,you might be misled on some rumours you heard. 
First MAS does not fly the 737-200's since 1992.I believe the outfit that you mentioned is Transmile (737-200) & Air Asia (737-300).Those who left MAS for SQ's A310 would not be locals from the 737-400/500's fleet.
As it is,like you mentioned the pay is not that great for a local 'expat' (Malaysian) with SQ especially with the new MAS pay scale with productivity thrown in.Plus the fact that promotion progression in MAS to the premium widebody fleet is almost assured once you have the criteria.
SQ has got to really wake up & smell the coffee.If their neighbouring competitor airline is offering better pay (in terms of cost of living) even with USD 2 Billion loses,then they will get what they pay. Monkeys for peanuts!
Better to be amongst the crony Bumi's than living in an insecure & kiasu land!
Safe flying all!
Pilost.
[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 08 March 2001).]
First MAS does not fly the 737-200's since 1992.I believe the outfit that you mentioned is Transmile (737-200) & Air Asia (737-300).Those who left MAS for SQ's A310 would not be locals from the 737-400/500's fleet.
As it is,like you mentioned the pay is not that great for a local 'expat' (Malaysian) with SQ especially with the new MAS pay scale with productivity thrown in.Plus the fact that promotion progression in MAS to the premium widebody fleet is almost assured once you have the criteria.
SQ has got to really wake up & smell the coffee.If their neighbouring competitor airline is offering better pay (in terms of cost of living) even with USD 2 Billion loses,then they will get what they pay. Monkeys for peanuts!
Better to be amongst the crony Bumi's than living in an insecure & kiasu land!
Safe flying all!
Pilost.
[This message has been edited by PILOST (edited 08 March 2001).]