Wrongly accused 9/11 case pilot can claim damages
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The paper version of "The Times" (UK newspaper) today 15th Feb was very interesting reading. It's not often the paper is _this_ critical of the legal system.
Highlights of the judges comments..
"...actions of the Metropolitan Police resulted in false statements to the court..."
"...extradition proceedings were brought for an ulterior motive..."
"...the CPS were responsible for serious defaults.."
The commentary in the paper says....
"...the Metropolitan Police, the Crown Prosecution Service and a parade of home secretaries have persisted with this awful fiction."
and, referring to the Prime Minister....
"...the right thing to do would be to apologise to Mr Raissi today - not in two or 20 years' time."
Highlights of the judges comments..
"...actions of the Metropolitan Police resulted in false statements to the court..."
"...extradition proceedings were brought for an ulterior motive..."
"...the CPS were responsible for serious defaults.."
The commentary in the paper says....
"...the Metropolitan Police, the Crown Prosecution Service and a parade of home secretaries have persisted with this awful fiction."
and, referring to the Prime Minister....
"...the right thing to do would be to apologise to Mr Raissi today - not in two or 20 years' time."
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Algerian pilot
According to the BBC report
"Prosecutors sought to extradite him on two counts of falsifying an application for a US pilot's licence, saying these were "holding charges" while they investigated his alleged role in terrorism.
But after five months a district judge gave Mr Raissi conditional bail as no terrorism charges had been brought, and were not likely to be brought in the near future."
I have to say that the quicket way for him to get back flying would be for the US or UK to pay for his re-training costs and then recommend he flies for an Algerian of Middle East Airline where his problems would be of no consequence.
I am afraid this is the price many will have to pay as the consequence of Islamic terrorism. There are no winners - just losers.
"Prosecutors sought to extradite him on two counts of falsifying an application for a US pilot's licence, saying these were "holding charges" while they investigated his alleged role in terrorism.
But after five months a district judge gave Mr Raissi conditional bail as no terrorism charges had been brought, and were not likely to be brought in the near future."
I have to say that the quicket way for him to get back flying would be for the US or UK to pay for his re-training costs and then recommend he flies for an Algerian of Middle East Airline where his problems would be of no consequence.
I am afraid this is the price many will have to pay as the consequence of Islamic terrorism. There are no winners - just losers.
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Drivel
Danny this is drivel:
Please send it to the appropriate forum.
Regards
Stoic
I have to say that the quicket way for him to get back flying would be for the US or UK to pay for his re-training costs and then recommend he flies for an Algerian of Middle East Airline where his problems would be of no consequence.
I am afraid this is the price many will have to pay as the consequence of Islamic terrorism. There are no winners - just losers.
I am afraid this is the price many will have to pay as the consequence of Islamic terrorism. There are no winners - just losers.
Regards
Stoic
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With a bit of luck he'll sue the British Govt. for £millions and retire, buying a King Air or even better a boat..
, both have props, then chill for the rest of his life writing an autobiography along the way.
See.. I've got it all sorted out!
Mat Finish
never a shiny moment..
, both have props, then chill for the rest of his life writing an autobiography along the way.See.. I've got it all sorted out!
Mat Finish
never a shiny moment..
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Simple question
Why does it matter? 
His chances of pursuing his career as an airline pilot have been badly damaged. There'll always be types who say no smoke without fire and they wont let facts get in the way of their prejudices.
His chances of pursuing his career as an airline pilot have been badly damaged. There'll always be types who say no smoke without fire and they wont let facts get in the way of their prejudices.
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Who's Danny?
This is exactly the right forum to discuss the unfortunate episode of the Algerian pilot. The outcome must be for him to be able to pursue his career and the question then arises "How can that be achieved?"
I think he would be likely to have much greater chance of success in a country where his perceived "blemishes" - proved not true - would be ignored. That to my mind is a Muslim country.
You must remember that after the atrocious 9/11 many were suspected and many wrongly accused. We have all done that after a major tragedy.
See this to gather some of the sentiment prevailing at that time:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../17113504.html
Obviously the sooner he can get back to his trade the better and that is most likely to occur with the airline of a Muslim country.
I feel that there is more to come on this one.
I think he would be likely to have much greater chance of success in a country where his perceived "blemishes" - proved not true - would be ignored. That to my mind is a Muslim country.
You must remember that after the atrocious 9/11 many were suspected and many wrongly accused. We have all done that after a major tragedy.
See this to gather some of the sentiment prevailing at that time:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../17113504.html
Obviously the sooner he can get back to his trade the better and that is most likely to occur with the airline of a Muslim country.
I feel that there is more to come on this one.
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Reply to Royhudd/simple question.
I realy dont know what your talking about?
However if it helps
Iea, Rba, Tva, Air europe (Milan) 75s and 76s ,tng done at Brain crank.
Brain crank, along with an other Co in the East Midlands, taught non flying pilots some dressd in hijabs to fly Boeing Jets .
Aparently this practise earned quite a lot off money for these cash hungry
Airlines and subsidised their sims.
We bona fide airline pilots always got the lousy night time slots, the hijabs got the prime afternoon slots,thats got to be discrimanatory.
After 9/11 I told Sb Leics police who "Trolled through Brain cranks sim records and found "a virtual treasure trove of astonishingly valuable information"!
Time guess? I give you a clue.
He not only made a mess of painting the tails bad decision/He also made a mess of allowing the training of non flying hijabs to fly the sims ,another bad decision.
Third bad decision employing Qick fit fitters in the A/C maintanence dept.I quote a senior Licenced Eng who was working on our plane there is going to be an accident people are going to get killed I just hope I havent signed the plane out these people (quick fit fitters) are a menace thank goodness I retire in six months time.I am sorry we have wrecked your plane,it was a pleasure to work on a new B767,(EI-CLS), and not the rust buckets the we have ,eng was not a happy bunny.
Only funny thing that occurred in our enforced 48 hr stay at LHR,was an airbus winglet and approx half a metre of wing,lying on the hangar floor,and some wit had written in broad black felt tip AOG /SPARES.return to owner ,Yes the worlds favourite Airline had clipped another carriers airbus whilst taxying and had successfully amputated the winglet. AMA DINNA JACKET would have been proud of the "operation"
Toodle Pip
NOJH.
However if it helps
Iea, Rba, Tva, Air europe (Milan) 75s and 76s ,tng done at Brain crank.
Brain crank, along with an other Co in the East Midlands, taught non flying pilots some dressd in hijabs to fly Boeing Jets .
Aparently this practise earned quite a lot off money for these cash hungry
Airlines and subsidised their sims.
We bona fide airline pilots always got the lousy night time slots, the hijabs got the prime afternoon slots,thats got to be discrimanatory.
After 9/11 I told Sb Leics police who "Trolled through Brain cranks sim records and found "a virtual treasure trove of astonishingly valuable information"!
Time guess? I give you a clue.
He not only made a mess of painting the tails bad decision/He also made a mess of allowing the training of non flying hijabs to fly the sims ,another bad decision.
Third bad decision employing Qick fit fitters in the A/C maintanence dept.I quote a senior Licenced Eng who was working on our plane there is going to be an accident people are going to get killed I just hope I havent signed the plane out these people (quick fit fitters) are a menace thank goodness I retire in six months time.I am sorry we have wrecked your plane,it was a pleasure to work on a new B767,(EI-CLS), and not the rust buckets the we have ,eng was not a happy bunny.
Only funny thing that occurred in our enforced 48 hr stay at LHR,was an airbus winglet and approx half a metre of wing,lying on the hangar floor,and some wit had written in broad black felt tip AOG /SPARES.return to owner ,Yes the worlds favourite Airline had clipped another carriers airbus whilst taxying and had successfully amputated the winglet. AMA DINNA JACKET would have been proud of the "operation"
Toodle Pip
NOJH.
Thread Starter
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Mr Raissi has committed no offence anywhere on this planet.
I hope whatever compensation he gets (and deserves) he continues his ambition to be a commercial pilot.
Yet despite a clean bill of health there are some on here that suggest he works on a 'Muslim' airline or from a 'Muslim" country. How would you like to start defining what airline has what religious alliance. That would be very dangerous territory.
Some are saying ...you take the money and we never want to hear from you again. Put yourself in his shoes and imagine what he has been through.
Both of my parents were from the Irish Republic and I'm old enough to remember when that was a black mark for employment in certain sectors of society.
The day when this sort of political or religious thinking is an influence on flight crew will be a sad day for all decent people.
I hope whatever compensation he gets (and deserves) he continues his ambition to be a commercial pilot.
Yet despite a clean bill of health there are some on here that suggest he works on a 'Muslim' airline or from a 'Muslim" country. How would you like to start defining what airline has what religious alliance. That would be very dangerous territory.
Some are saying ...you take the money and we never want to hear from you again. Put yourself in his shoes and imagine what he has been through.
Both of my parents were from the Irish Republic and I'm old enough to remember when that was a black mark for employment in certain sectors of society.
The day when this sort of political or religious thinking is an influence on flight crew will be a sad day for all decent people.
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There's a moving interview with Mr Raissi in today's Observer that may help some folk to understand better what he's been through.
A couple of highlights for those too busy:-
A couple of highlights for those too busy:-
To understand how damaging the accusations were against Raissi, it is necessary to understand his background. 'My family back home in Algeria have been fighting terrorism for the past 15 years,' he said. 'My uncle is chief of an anti-terrorist branch. We abhor terrorism in any shape or form in our family. This is very damaging for us.'
In bringing his claim for compensation, Raissi argues that he was arrested chiefly because he was Algerian, Muslim and Arab, an airline pilot - someone who effectively ticked the boxes of an identikit terrorist.
'I was arrested because of my profile,' he said. 'Why didn't they arrest the instructors who actually trained the terrorists?'
'I was arrested because of my profile,' he said. 'Why didn't they arrest the instructors who actually trained the terrorists?'
Ultimately, American officials were forced to make a provisional request for his extradition on the grounds that he had lied on his pilot's licence by not revealing he had undergone knee surgery, an allegation that in itself was later proved false.
'I'm not working, I'm blacklisted from all airline jobs. I'm framed as a terrorist.'
Even now, despite being completely exonerated, he is banned from flying anywhere but Algeria because his American extradition warrant is still outstanding.
'We hope Raissi's complete exoneration will mean the US authorities will withdraw the warrant as a matter of urgency,' said Jules Carey, his lawyer from Tuckers solicitors.
Even now, despite being completely exonerated, he is banned from flying anywhere but Algeria because his American extradition warrant is still outstanding.
'We hope Raissi's complete exoneration will mean the US authorities will withdraw the warrant as a matter of urgency,' said Jules Carey, his lawyer from Tuckers solicitors.
Give the Guy a break.
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Reply to Philspace ref the Algerian.
No offence anywhere on the planet:
How would you know that? to be sure to be sure, have you got a crystal ball,can you read cups and tell fortunes,maybe you read palms as well between sectors. Maybe you have your own private leprechaun. Youl be telling me next statues cry real tears ooch you havenae changed a bit still beleave in fairies and four leafed clovers? The blarney remains despite the euro,as a southern Irish A/c eng,said weve been dragged by the hair screaming and protesting into the 19th century.
No offence anywhere on the planet Ah wouldnae put a punt onit!
However if you are ever in Shannon in Dirty Nellies I will have beer with you ,and you can pay.
How would you know that? to be sure to be sure, have you got a crystal ball,can you read cups and tell fortunes,maybe you read palms as well between sectors. Maybe you have your own private leprechaun. Youl be telling me next statues cry real tears ooch you havenae changed a bit still beleave in fairies and four leafed clovers? The blarney remains despite the euro,as a southern Irish A/c eng,said weve been dragged by the hair screaming and protesting into the 19th century.
No offence anywhere on the planet Ah wouldnae put a punt onit!
However if you are ever in Shannon in Dirty Nellies I will have beer with you ,and you can pay.
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Where now for Mr Raissi?
CEEDEE. I admire your wish to defend this man's airline future but you have to live in the real world. Some will not be so generous spirited - and did I not hear that the Government are considering whether to appeal or not? Is it all over yet? Perhaps not.
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Court of Appeal Judgment
the full judgment can be found here
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/72.html
Sad Sad reading and details a series of deceptions put forward on behalf of the US authorities by the CPS in various hearings.
The US Authorities simply wanted this man in US custody in the US for questioning and aided and abetted by the British might have succeeded on false and mistaken facts in having him extradited had it not been for the Judiciary in UK
Holding Charges take on a new meaning ....
Now HIs battle for compensation continues.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/72.html
Sad Sad reading and details a series of deceptions put forward on behalf of the US authorities by the CPS in various hearings.
The US Authorities simply wanted this man in US custody in the US for questioning and aided and abetted by the British might have succeeded on false and mistaken facts in having him extradited had it not been for the Judiciary in UK
Holding Charges take on a new meaning ....
Now HIs battle for compensation continues.
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Give the Guy a break.
1) Because he's being arbitrarily prevented from pursuing his career through no fault of his own;
2) Because his personal life has been damn-near wrecked by the consequence of overbearing state power;
3) Because I hoped that fellow pilots, pilots' professional organisations, airlines and aviation licensing authorities might be able to offer support to help him return to some kind of normality.
Why should he get the break and not you?
1) Because he's been held in terrible conditions in a high-security prison for four months for no good reason and you haven't;
2) Because leaving a fellow pilot to 'work it out' on their own is small-minded and selfish (and why I among thousands wrote letters supporting the GOL pilots' quasi-judicial arrest in Brazil: just like him, they were unjustly accused and falsely detained, though admittedly in far more comfortable circumstances than Mr Raissi);
3) Because letting the fiasco roll on diminishes our country's reputation for fairness and respect for human rights?
Why should you support Mr Raissi?
Because it's about time you did something that would make your mother proud of you.
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Pilot compensation ruling to be appealed
From The Independent, 28 February, 2008:
Ministry of Justice ?
Stoic
The Government is to appeal against a ruling which cleared the way for a pilot wrongly accused of training the 11 September highjackers to claim compensation. This month the Court of Appeal said Lofti Raissi, an Algerian, had been subject to an "abuse of process" and overturned a previous decision. A Ministry of Justice spokesman said the appeal was based on a point of law and sought to "settle the matter" after different rulings from the High Court and Court of Appeal.
Stoic
Reforms
Yes, another of our ancient, and internationally admired, institutions that has been "reformed" by this Administration. Perhaps "re-formed" would be a more appropriate expression.
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Hardly - gov department organisation has little "history" as such - while the name existed since the 1700s, responsibilities are moved around very rapidly in our non-constitutional system - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office.
Beside the point however. I hope the chap in question wins on principle of the arbitrary nature of the process in which he was caught up. Should teach one or two ministers about the rule of law, which can never be disregarded, even in extremis.
Beside the point however. I hope the chap in question wins on principle of the arbitrary nature of the process in which he was caught up. Should teach one or two ministers about the rule of law, which can never be disregarded, even in extremis.
It's disgraceful and a scar on our 'justice' system.
This guy was locked up and his career destroyed, at the request of a foreign government and without a shred of evidence against him.
Our government should apologise and compensate him, and then demand a refund from the government who requested his detention.
PS. the fact that he was a pilot is irrelevant.
This guy was locked up and his career destroyed, at the request of a foreign government and without a shred of evidence against him.
Our government should apologise and compensate him, and then demand a refund from the government who requested his detention.
PS. the fact that he was a pilot is irrelevant.