SIA(Mauritius) OZ Jobs
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$168K for a B777 Captain! re you guys serious?? Wake up and smell the roses, better ask for a copy of the contract and read the fine print. Questions to ask:
- where will you be doing reserve
- how many days off in Perth/Brisbane per month
- Can you be transfered to other bases
- can SIA take the bank guarantee without your signature(you could be in foe a long futile legal fight if they can)
- what happens if SIA terminate the contract before 5 years; do you still pay
Kust a thought. You guys that accept this are pawns in SIA's game to lower the pilot wages in Sngapore. You will not be accepted kindly by other employees INCLUDING THE CHECKING DEPARTMENT. Fail your check - pay up buddy.
Its a pilot's market, have a bit of patience.
- where will you be doing reserve
- how many days off in Perth/Brisbane per month
- Can you be transfered to other bases
- can SIA take the bank guarantee without your signature(you could be in foe a long futile legal fight if they can)
- what happens if SIA terminate the contract before 5 years; do you still pay
Kust a thought. You guys that accept this are pawns in SIA's game to lower the pilot wages in Sngapore. You will not be accepted kindly by other employees INCLUDING THE CHECKING DEPARTMENT. Fail your check - pay up buddy.
Its a pilot's market, have a bit of patience.
Guest
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During the early nineties, the first mention of the London basing was made to ALPA-S. All and sundry vowed to fight this erosion of SIA pilots status. Consequently, the London base was established anyway, with the company promising that it would still send local pilots to London, as there were to be more flights.SIA said that London was unique, as it was solely a 747-400 route, and therefore pilots need not worry about any further inrodes made by SIA Mauritius.
It was interesting that the main opposition to the London basing was from the local incumbent 747 captains.Of course it all boiled down to them worrying about there allowances disappearing. There was little attention paid to the fact that local commands would suffer.The company merely said that direct commands onto the 747-400 would start, and therefore local commands were no the issue.
The London base was extended to Sydney and LA.Then we now have the B777 basing announcement.
The B777 is where a lot of locals (and local expats, had not that new captain bunked of to Korean!) would expect to get their initial commands in the future. However, how many will still be in the command pool, following SIA announcement about the 777 basings? I do believe it will be popular, especially with the ex-disputers, hankering for a cold Fosters.
The retirement of 4 A340s this year will free up about 25 captains. As the B777 is the expanding fleet, they will be expected to transfer there ( along with signing another 3 year bond).However, the 777 pays less, for increased work load.Its not just the sectors, but those oh so keen co-pilots that are spewed out of Seletar.They have to learn the ropes, usually on your sector.A few visits to the office can be expected by expat captains, to explain all those heavy landings when the f/o flies.
Its also unlikely that SIA will be keen for its current crop of expats to transfer to the basings. They want blood, new blood that is, to crew out of Australia.So the guys in Singapore will again be frustrated in their attempts to return home.
And unlike the 747-400 basing, candidates are not required to be rated.For just a few years of your life, SQ will give you that rating and even let you fly all over Asia with it. Consequently, you can expect every Tom Dick & Harry sakka to be applying from dun-under, to sign up to the nihilism of SQ.
Its strange that SIA continue to take pilots with less experience than their current crop of Senior F/Os, who have paid big time to crawl into the command pool,just for their dreams to be shattered.Why am I not surprised.
It was interesting that the main opposition to the London basing was from the local incumbent 747 captains.Of course it all boiled down to them worrying about there allowances disappearing. There was little attention paid to the fact that local commands would suffer.The company merely said that direct commands onto the 747-400 would start, and therefore local commands were no the issue.
The London base was extended to Sydney and LA.Then we now have the B777 basing announcement.
The B777 is where a lot of locals (and local expats, had not that new captain bunked of to Korean!) would expect to get their initial commands in the future. However, how many will still be in the command pool, following SIA announcement about the 777 basings? I do believe it will be popular, especially with the ex-disputers, hankering for a cold Fosters.
The retirement of 4 A340s this year will free up about 25 captains. As the B777 is the expanding fleet, they will be expected to transfer there ( along with signing another 3 year bond).However, the 777 pays less, for increased work load.Its not just the sectors, but those oh so keen co-pilots that are spewed out of Seletar.They have to learn the ropes, usually on your sector.A few visits to the office can be expected by expat captains, to explain all those heavy landings when the f/o flies.
Its also unlikely that SIA will be keen for its current crop of expats to transfer to the basings. They want blood, new blood that is, to crew out of Australia.So the guys in Singapore will again be frustrated in their attempts to return home.
And unlike the 747-400 basing, candidates are not required to be rated.For just a few years of your life, SQ will give you that rating and even let you fly all over Asia with it. Consequently, you can expect every Tom Dick & Harry sakka to be applying from dun-under, to sign up to the nihilism of SQ.
Its strange that SIA continue to take pilots with less experience than their current crop of Senior F/Os, who have paid big time to crawl into the command pool,just for their dreams to be shattered.Why am I not surprised.
Guest
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For anyone tempted by the offer, it's worth noting that the 168K per annum that SQ are quoting INCLUDES bonuses, allowances per diems etc. They're also Oz Pesos, paid in Oz at Oz tax rates.
Talk about sleight of hand...
I have to agree with Vincere's comment on page one. SQ are trolling the waters to see if they can scare up a few nervous nellies at bargain basement prices amongst the sc... sorry, I'm not allowed to use that word - amongst the highly respected professional aviators occupying left hand seats in AN and to a lesser degree, Qandom, who might be worried about their future employment prospects with their existing employer but who'd rather not leave Ozmate.
I'm told the interest among current SQ pilots has to date been underwhelming.
'Lee Con You' is about right.
Talk about sleight of hand...
I have to agree with Vincere's comment on page one. SQ are trolling the waters to see if they can scare up a few nervous nellies at bargain basement prices amongst the sc... sorry, I'm not allowed to use that word - amongst the highly respected professional aviators occupying left hand seats in AN and to a lesser degree, Qandom, who might be worried about their future employment prospects with their existing employer but who'd rather not leave Ozmate.
I'm told the interest among current SQ pilots has to date been underwhelming.
'Lee Con You' is about right.
Guest
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Spad,
I know a few expats who are considering this position.Personally,I think you are probably right about the tactics used by SIA,but your insistence on including the inevitable reference to the 'S****' in your posts devalues it in the eyes of people who have not been through your experiences.I am not trying to criticise you, but pointing out that your message is put in the category of "just another 89er blowing off" by the very people you want to take it seriously.
I know a few expats who are considering this position.Personally,I think you are probably right about the tactics used by SIA,but your insistence on including the inevitable reference to the 'S****' in your posts devalues it in the eyes of people who have not been through your experiences.I am not trying to criticise you, but pointing out that your message is put in the category of "just another 89er blowing off" by the very people you want to take it seriously.
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The fact remains, what I said SQ is hoping for is still more than likely true. They'll get a few applicants from within SQ with pressing family problems or who've made their money and just want to go home to something other than retirement, but there aren't too many of that second category around. I daresay they'll also get a few from outside who are willing to pay the price demanded to get the 777 or 747 endorsement.
And I accept that you're right, Ditchy. 89 is an instant turn-off for anyone who wasn't affected. However, if the Lufthansa and BA threads now current on R&N are anything to go by, (ie, their threats to strike if necessary demanding a 30% pay rise), I think there might soon be quite a few more out there who:
(1) will wish they hadn't 'turned off' quite so quickly whenever 89 was raised, and
(2) will at last understand how deep and long lasting the bitterness can be against turncoats and blow-ins in such emotional situations.
And I accept that you're right, Ditchy. 89 is an instant turn-off for anyone who wasn't affected. However, if the Lufthansa and BA threads now current on R&N are anything to go by, (ie, their threats to strike if necessary demanding a 30% pay rise), I think there might soon be quite a few more out there who:
(1) will wish they hadn't 'turned off' quite so quickly whenever 89 was raised, and
(2) will at last understand how deep and long lasting the bitterness can be against turncoats and blow-ins in such emotional situations.
Guest
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Any “star-dusted” wannabes out there who might still be considering a serious application to SIA (Mauritius) for a B777 Captain job, based in either Perth or Brisbane might like to consider the following further points:
SIA (Mauritius) is a recruiting/contract pilot management company with an accommodation address in Mauritius. It is unclear who are the shareholders but it is abundantly clear that the redoubtable SIA SVPFO, Maurice de Vaz, is a director and prime mover.
The “contract” you would receive and require to abide by to the letter, from SIA (Mauritius), if you were rash enough to accept a job offer, would be entirely one-sided, contain no employee safeguards enforceable in an Australian court (or any other court) and would be subject to change at the whim of SIA (Mauritius) without any form of consultation with the employee group concerned - business as usual – just like SIA proper!
The terms of the “contract” in respect of flying/duty hours would in no way be constrained by the Collective Agreement (CA) which may be in force for the time being between SIA and ALPAS in Singapore – as it presently is for ex-pat pilots based in the Republic. Hence pilots would be required to fly for the maximum hours permitted by the Authority (Civil Aviation Authority Singapore) with no overtime payments beyond 75 hours per month. Please think in terms of 100 flight hours per 28 days and 1000 flight hours per 12-month period – in fact the kind of “productivity” which SIA is currently trying to squeeze out of ALPAS and hence all Singapore based pilots.
The job would not involve cosy rotations between Perth/Brisbane – Singapore and back home for tea with the wife and kids, as the ad implies but would involve the new fodder being pitched into the full 777 network, via Singapore, with only statutory days off guaranteed in home base, either Perth or Brisbane.
The wonderful remuneration offered is “approximately AUD 168,000” and is the new improved rate, published before the present impasse in Singapore is resolved between SIA and ALPS – now 2 years and 4 months old! Included in this figure is what SIA call “incentive flying allowance”, which I would imagine is pitched at around S$33.00/AUD37.00 per flying hour. Hence, if a pilot is reckoned to be good for around 950 flying hours a year (he will be), this relates to a sum of AUD35,150. Similarly, the “year-end bonus” (shoved in so that it can be reduced at will to reflect “changed market conditions”
will probably turn out to be around 15% of salary or AUD17,350. These calculations mean the base salary (only on which the prudent pilot will rely) will amount to around AUD115,500 – or S$102,450/USD56,300. Wannabes may wish to ponder this one and compare with the KAL first year pay of S$227,100/USD124,800 for 70 flying hours per month and in addition to which is payable an annual bonus plus hotac in SEL/down route plus per dium whilst away from home station. Any flying over 70 hours per month is subject to a generous overtime agreement.
There is a double taxation treaty between S.Korea and Australia – hence KAL arranges to pay a notional tax bill on behalf of the contracted pilot who then does not have a home country tax liability. Needless to say there is no such arrangement with SIA (Mauritius)! OZ residents expect to pay 48% on the “package”.
On the question of a “bonus depending on the company’s performance” (presumably SIA rather than SIA (Mauritius)), and if this is not the same as the previously mentioned “year-end bonus”, be advised that this is under constant pressure from SIA in Singapore as it seems that the more profit the company makes, the less bonus it wants to give to its employees.
Finally, it can safely be assumed that the ad is pitched at non-rated pilots as not even the most half-witted rated pilot would go anywhere near this bunch, so all remaining candidates would be well and truly bonded and bank guaranteed (and hence at the tender mercy) well before any training took place.
All wannabes are advised to insist on exact details before proceeding! Hope this is useful.
SIA (Mauritius) is a recruiting/contract pilot management company with an accommodation address in Mauritius. It is unclear who are the shareholders but it is abundantly clear that the redoubtable SIA SVPFO, Maurice de Vaz, is a director and prime mover.
The “contract” you would receive and require to abide by to the letter, from SIA (Mauritius), if you were rash enough to accept a job offer, would be entirely one-sided, contain no employee safeguards enforceable in an Australian court (or any other court) and would be subject to change at the whim of SIA (Mauritius) without any form of consultation with the employee group concerned - business as usual – just like SIA proper!
The terms of the “contract” in respect of flying/duty hours would in no way be constrained by the Collective Agreement (CA) which may be in force for the time being between SIA and ALPAS in Singapore – as it presently is for ex-pat pilots based in the Republic. Hence pilots would be required to fly for the maximum hours permitted by the Authority (Civil Aviation Authority Singapore) with no overtime payments beyond 75 hours per month. Please think in terms of 100 flight hours per 28 days and 1000 flight hours per 12-month period – in fact the kind of “productivity” which SIA is currently trying to squeeze out of ALPAS and hence all Singapore based pilots.
The job would not involve cosy rotations between Perth/Brisbane – Singapore and back home for tea with the wife and kids, as the ad implies but would involve the new fodder being pitched into the full 777 network, via Singapore, with only statutory days off guaranteed in home base, either Perth or Brisbane.
The wonderful remuneration offered is “approximately AUD 168,000” and is the new improved rate, published before the present impasse in Singapore is resolved between SIA and ALPS – now 2 years and 4 months old! Included in this figure is what SIA call “incentive flying allowance”, which I would imagine is pitched at around S$33.00/AUD37.00 per flying hour. Hence, if a pilot is reckoned to be good for around 950 flying hours a year (he will be), this relates to a sum of AUD35,150. Similarly, the “year-end bonus” (shoved in so that it can be reduced at will to reflect “changed market conditions”
will probably turn out to be around 15% of salary or AUD17,350. These calculations mean the base salary (only on which the prudent pilot will rely) will amount to around AUD115,500 – or S$102,450/USD56,300. Wannabes may wish to ponder this one and compare with the KAL first year pay of S$227,100/USD124,800 for 70 flying hours per month and in addition to which is payable an annual bonus plus hotac in SEL/down route plus per dium whilst away from home station. Any flying over 70 hours per month is subject to a generous overtime agreement.There is a double taxation treaty between S.Korea and Australia – hence KAL arranges to pay a notional tax bill on behalf of the contracted pilot who then does not have a home country tax liability. Needless to say there is no such arrangement with SIA (Mauritius)! OZ residents expect to pay 48% on the “package”.
On the question of a “bonus depending on the company’s performance” (presumably SIA rather than SIA (Mauritius)), and if this is not the same as the previously mentioned “year-end bonus”, be advised that this is under constant pressure from SIA in Singapore as it seems that the more profit the company makes, the less bonus it wants to give to its employees.
Finally, it can safely be assumed that the ad is pitched at non-rated pilots as not even the most half-witted rated pilot would go anywhere near this bunch, so all remaining candidates would be well and truly bonded and bank guaranteed (and hence at the tender mercy) well before any training took place.
All wannabes are advised to insist on exact details before proceeding! Hope this is useful.
Guest
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4 month bonus?? hmmm. Let me use my crystal ball for a monent:
- All that bad publicity from SQ006
- refusal of the insurance companies to pay up the SQ006 costs
- very poor status of all Asian currencies against the $US
- lack of experienced pilots for new 777s
- major management fallouts and rudderless direction of the company
- history of whimsical bonus variation by the company
- loss making performances of Air NZ and Ansett
Well, if you really think flying a bigger plane makes you a bigger person, then go for it. Sure hope the rest of your life stays together to support your dissappointment.
- All that bad publicity from SQ006
- refusal of the insurance companies to pay up the SQ006 costs
- very poor status of all Asian currencies against the $US
- lack of experienced pilots for new 777s
- major management fallouts and rudderless direction of the company
- history of whimsical bonus variation by the company
- loss making performances of Air NZ and Ansett
Well, if you really think flying a bigger plane makes you a bigger person, then go for it. Sure hope the rest of your life stays together to support your dissappointment.
Guest
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Tosh26, thank you for an informative post!
A couple of questions, for clarity:
Regarding the legal position of a pilot based in Oz in this way. I would have thought that he would HAVE to comply with Oz laws, irrespective of whether he signs a contract with SIA-M. Surely if SIA-M allowed 1500 hours per year and CASA allowed only 1000, he would have to comply? After all, he is working, earning and paying tax in OZ. Thus he must enjoy the benefit of the country's legal system (and comply to it).
Similarly, in the event of a dispute. SIA-M cannot be just a paper company in Oz. There has to be a tangible, legal company that employs people in Oz (otherwise it could not pay in AUD!), that files company statements with the Revenue authorities, etc. During a contract violation by SIA-M or a dispute, could the pilot not take the Oz company to the Oz courts for redress?
I have no intention of applying for the position, but am interested as the above would hold water in most Western countries (abide by the local laws, have a local company registered, pay the local taxes, etc). Is it very different in Oz?
If you have more info on this, I am sure that a number of pilots would find it useful.
A couple of questions, for clarity:
Regarding the legal position of a pilot based in Oz in this way. I would have thought that he would HAVE to comply with Oz laws, irrespective of whether he signs a contract with SIA-M. Surely if SIA-M allowed 1500 hours per year and CASA allowed only 1000, he would have to comply? After all, he is working, earning and paying tax in OZ. Thus he must enjoy the benefit of the country's legal system (and comply to it).
Similarly, in the event of a dispute. SIA-M cannot be just a paper company in Oz. There has to be a tangible, legal company that employs people in Oz (otherwise it could not pay in AUD!), that files company statements with the Revenue authorities, etc. During a contract violation by SIA-M or a dispute, could the pilot not take the Oz company to the Oz courts for redress?
I have no intention of applying for the position, but am interested as the above would hold water in most Western countries (abide by the local laws, have a local company registered, pay the local taxes, etc). Is it very different in Oz?
If you have more info on this, I am sure that a number of pilots would find it useful.
Guest
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Tulips
As I understand things, it works like this:
1. SIA (Mauritius) interviews pilots crazy enough to fall for all the drivel in the ads.
2. In the interview, these naïve candidates are then taken in by all the flannel that Maurice de Vaz will dish out (usually he doesn’t bother to explain to the guys – no girlies here – that he is the SVP Flt Ops and hence the architect of all SIA pilots’ misery, preferring just to be called Maurice!) and if he thinks them suitable fodder for the 777 inferno (i.e. in the present pilot shortage climate, having at least some gliding and hot air ballooning experience), then he will inform the HR dupe who will be “conducting” the interviews and a letter of offer will be sent out to the intended victims for signatures which are construed as acceptance of the job offers plus the “terms and conditions” hazily laid out in a page and a half of big writing with some joined up bits as well.
3. At this stage no sight will be offered of whichever document governs the agreement between the pilots and the employing company (either an SIA (Mauritius) contract or the Collective Agreement between SIA and ALPAS in Singapore). These are only available when the individual pilot leaves the former employer and is firmly committed to join the vale of tears. Any pilot insisting on sight of these vital documents is considered “unsuitable”.
4. Those pilots with right of residence/work in OZ (vital qualifications in the present case of the proposed 777 outstation pilot contracts) and who are “successful” in the recruiting process will be shipped across to Singapore with the rest of the sheep and fleeced of their bank guarantee money (S$45,000/USD25,000), following which they will then be obliged to sign a humungus bond with SIA, to “cover the cost of training” on the 777 (Boeing price for conversion USD25,000 – SIA price USD193,300 – see any relationship in the numbers here?) which will keep the guys around for 5 years servitude – see all previous SIA threads and the hundreds of postings which refer to this matter.
5. SIA (Mauritius) has then completed its initial responsibility – that is delivering the lost souls for their branding and indoctrination in the SIA Training Centre, Upper Changi Road. Next, the clever bits. SIA (Mauritius) is the contracting company, so it pays the pilots directly in to whichever bank account is specified, in whichever country is nominated (money originating from SIA, Maurice presiding over this operation). Other posters have mentioned this before but usually, the pilots will try to get away with paying no income tax to the Revenue Authority of country of residence and this dodge has been successful over the years, for example in London where the retired (at 55) BA 744 drivers have been manning the helm of the SIA base for some time now as a nice little supplementary to their main income, the BA pension (explains why Maurice has been able to get away with such low London pay for so long and why no SIN based pilots have ever needed to be posted up there). Of course, the guys have been masquerading as UK non-resident, helpfully providing the UK Inland Revenue with accommodation addresses in Cyprus that are represented as the individuals’ permanent addresses. Now, inevitably, the Revenue has cottoned onto this cosy arrangement and is planning a number of formal audits of the tax affairs of these enterprising operators – with a view to ripping into them for back taxes and punitive fines. Hence you will see that, yes the pilots have to comply with the law of the land of residence – in the case of the ex BA guys, UK and, in the case of any OZ adventurers who go for the presently offered 777 deal, Australia. The advantage to SIA is that through contacting agency SIA (Mauritius) it can pay whatever it cares, to these un-represented outstation pilots, unfettered by any boring old pay agreement between SIA and ALPAS which might eventually be signed in Singapore and which might contain rates higher than desired (by SIA) and productivity lower than desired (by SIA). Through SIA (Mauritius), SIA can also chop and change pay rates depending upon “market conditions” and not give a toss about any productivity deal worked out with ALPAS in Singapore but work these pilots to the statutory maximums of the Authority which issues the SIA Air Operators Certificate (AOC) – in this case CAAS. Inevitably, SIA will have these pilots well and truly by the balls (preferred situation) in that the bank guarantee can instantly be grabbed in Singapore at the slightest sign of dissent (try getting that back in front of a Singapore court), a major corporation with unlimited legal resource will be pursuing the bond (i.e. not SIA (Mauritius) which will in this event firmly take a back seat) and if all else fails, the tax authorities in OZ can be informed of the individual’s present employment/tax situation – and if anyone thinks the latter would not happen, then I think they should push off to live on the nice planet Zorg where everyone is lovely to each other!
6. In terms of legal jurisdictions – well yes, the contract will be governed by Mauritius law (see you in court in Port Louis) but there will be clauses whereby a defaulting pilot may also be pursued in both the Australian and Singapore courts. No prizes for guessing that clauses will not exist to cater for the reverse situation of SIA defaulting on the individual pilot!
This seems to have turned into a bit of an epic – must be something to do with all the fast balls and unilateral contract changes we've all had in Singapore and the feeling that this generates about SIA among the pilots (this one, anyway) – hope it’s helpful.
Best regards
As I understand things, it works like this:
1. SIA (Mauritius) interviews pilots crazy enough to fall for all the drivel in the ads.
2. In the interview, these naïve candidates are then taken in by all the flannel that Maurice de Vaz will dish out (usually he doesn’t bother to explain to the guys – no girlies here – that he is the SVP Flt Ops and hence the architect of all SIA pilots’ misery, preferring just to be called Maurice!) and if he thinks them suitable fodder for the 777 inferno (i.e. in the present pilot shortage climate, having at least some gliding and hot air ballooning experience), then he will inform the HR dupe who will be “conducting” the interviews and a letter of offer will be sent out to the intended victims for signatures which are construed as acceptance of the job offers plus the “terms and conditions” hazily laid out in a page and a half of big writing with some joined up bits as well.
3. At this stage no sight will be offered of whichever document governs the agreement between the pilots and the employing company (either an SIA (Mauritius) contract or the Collective Agreement between SIA and ALPAS in Singapore). These are only available when the individual pilot leaves the former employer and is firmly committed to join the vale of tears. Any pilot insisting on sight of these vital documents is considered “unsuitable”.
4. Those pilots with right of residence/work in OZ (vital qualifications in the present case of the proposed 777 outstation pilot contracts) and who are “successful” in the recruiting process will be shipped across to Singapore with the rest of the sheep and fleeced of their bank guarantee money (S$45,000/USD25,000), following which they will then be obliged to sign a humungus bond with SIA, to “cover the cost of training” on the 777 (Boeing price for conversion USD25,000 – SIA price USD193,300 – see any relationship in the numbers here?) which will keep the guys around for 5 years servitude – see all previous SIA threads and the hundreds of postings which refer to this matter.
5. SIA (Mauritius) has then completed its initial responsibility – that is delivering the lost souls for their branding and indoctrination in the SIA Training Centre, Upper Changi Road. Next, the clever bits. SIA (Mauritius) is the contracting company, so it pays the pilots directly in to whichever bank account is specified, in whichever country is nominated (money originating from SIA, Maurice presiding over this operation). Other posters have mentioned this before but usually, the pilots will try to get away with paying no income tax to the Revenue Authority of country of residence and this dodge has been successful over the years, for example in London where the retired (at 55) BA 744 drivers have been manning the helm of the SIA base for some time now as a nice little supplementary to their main income, the BA pension (explains why Maurice has been able to get away with such low London pay for so long and why no SIN based pilots have ever needed to be posted up there). Of course, the guys have been masquerading as UK non-resident, helpfully providing the UK Inland Revenue with accommodation addresses in Cyprus that are represented as the individuals’ permanent addresses. Now, inevitably, the Revenue has cottoned onto this cosy arrangement and is planning a number of formal audits of the tax affairs of these enterprising operators – with a view to ripping into them for back taxes and punitive fines. Hence you will see that, yes the pilots have to comply with the law of the land of residence – in the case of the ex BA guys, UK and, in the case of any OZ adventurers who go for the presently offered 777 deal, Australia. The advantage to SIA is that through contacting agency SIA (Mauritius) it can pay whatever it cares, to these un-represented outstation pilots, unfettered by any boring old pay agreement between SIA and ALPAS which might eventually be signed in Singapore and which might contain rates higher than desired (by SIA) and productivity lower than desired (by SIA). Through SIA (Mauritius), SIA can also chop and change pay rates depending upon “market conditions” and not give a toss about any productivity deal worked out with ALPAS in Singapore but work these pilots to the statutory maximums of the Authority which issues the SIA Air Operators Certificate (AOC) – in this case CAAS. Inevitably, SIA will have these pilots well and truly by the balls (preferred situation) in that the bank guarantee can instantly be grabbed in Singapore at the slightest sign of dissent (try getting that back in front of a Singapore court), a major corporation with unlimited legal resource will be pursuing the bond (i.e. not SIA (Mauritius) which will in this event firmly take a back seat) and if all else fails, the tax authorities in OZ can be informed of the individual’s present employment/tax situation – and if anyone thinks the latter would not happen, then I think they should push off to live on the nice planet Zorg where everyone is lovely to each other!
6. In terms of legal jurisdictions – well yes, the contract will be governed by Mauritius law (see you in court in Port Louis) but there will be clauses whereby a defaulting pilot may also be pursued in both the Australian and Singapore courts. No prizes for guessing that clauses will not exist to cater for the reverse situation of SIA defaulting on the individual pilot!
This seems to have turned into a bit of an epic – must be something to do with all the fast balls and unilateral contract changes we've all had in Singapore and the feeling that this generates about SIA among the pilots (this one, anyway) – hope it’s helpful.
Best regards
Guest
Posts: n/a
WOW! Thanks, Tosh.
With the residence requirements, I can see this is firmly aimed at the Australian diaspora. Fair comment also, regarding the likelihood of the pilot not wanting to pay the tax if he can get away with it (natural pilot trait!) But it leaves him totally exposed to SIA spilling the beans on him later; another lever of control.
Sounds like the best option is for guys only to apply for 'proper' SIA jobs. If SIA then want to base pilots elsewhere at, that must be negotiated with ALPAS.
Also only to apply to SIA once the salary package and current disputes are resolved!
Fly safe!
With the residence requirements, I can see this is firmly aimed at the Australian diaspora. Fair comment also, regarding the likelihood of the pilot not wanting to pay the tax if he can get away with it (natural pilot trait!) But it leaves him totally exposed to SIA spilling the beans on him later; another lever of control.
Sounds like the best option is for guys only to apply for 'proper' SIA jobs. If SIA then want to base pilots elsewhere at, that must be negotiated with ALPAS.
Also only to apply to SIA once the salary package and current disputes are resolved!
Fly safe!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Tulips in reference to flight time limitation, CASA would have no say in SIA operations. You will be flying Singapore registered aircraft with a Singaporean license. Therefore under CAAS limitations.
100 hours per month is very realistic. You will be lucky to hit 10 days off per month (not in a row), more like 8 (still not in a row).
Staff travel is a con job. If you buy a interline ticket, you will be told that it is ID75%, but you will pay full fare.
If you get into legal disagreement with SIA/SIA Mauritius, it does not matter that you are in OZ, you will go to a OZ court but follow Mauritius law. Why Mauritius to begin with? Most probably because Mauritius has laws or lack of for SIA to take advantage of you.
Always keep this in the back of your mind, Singapore corporate culture dictates, if they can not exploit you, they do not want you.
100 hours per month is very realistic. You will be lucky to hit 10 days off per month (not in a row), more like 8 (still not in a row).
Staff travel is a con job. If you buy a interline ticket, you will be told that it is ID75%, but you will pay full fare.
If you get into legal disagreement with SIA/SIA Mauritius, it does not matter that you are in OZ, you will go to a OZ court but follow Mauritius law. Why Mauritius to begin with? Most probably because Mauritius has laws or lack of for SIA to take advantage of you.
Always keep this in the back of your mind, Singapore corporate culture dictates, if they can not exploit you, they do not want you.
Guest
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Actually tulips, the best option is not to bother applying for any SIA job, proper or otherwise.
It’s also instructive to note that non of the SIA OZ 777 drivers are interested in basing Perth/Brisbane – they all want to push off asap to KAL once the back pay and annual bonus has been coughed up!
Gladiator’s comments on SIA “staff travel” are correct. The “privilege” is viewed with contempt, derision and loathing by pilots, more especially as the department actually produces an annual profit from the employees, for SIA, of approx S$4M (the only reason for its existence).
Happy landings
It’s also instructive to note that non of the SIA OZ 777 drivers are interested in basing Perth/Brisbane – they all want to push off asap to KAL once the back pay and annual bonus has been coughed up!
Gladiator’s comments on SIA “staff travel” are correct. The “privilege” is viewed with contempt, derision and loathing by pilots, more especially as the department actually produces an annual profit from the employees, for SIA, of approx S$4M (the only reason for its existence).
Happy landings
Guest
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I’ve followed the 777 debated here with intense personal interest and checked with a couple of the employment agencies that represent Korean Airlines (KAL). They confirm that the starting salary figures used on this thread are substantially correct and that all figures quoted are net of income tax.
KAL does, as stated, pay income tax to the Korean authorities on a notional salary, “earned locally”, for the individual pilots and as there is a double taxation treaty between Korea and most other countries (inc OZ), the pilots flying with KAL are therefore fire proof in their country of residence. Five star hotel accommodation is provided in Seoul between flights, plus down route when flying. A daily allowance is paid in Seoul and down route. There is a generous annual bonus to keep the guys interested and this is under review so I couldn’t get the numbers. Travel to and from nominated home station is by first class confirmed interline flights. Staff travel is the standard unlimited ID 90 basis in F/J/Y class as preferred and based on excursion fares for pilot and family.
It would seem to me that, in the present case, 777 rated OZ pilots returning home from, for instance, Emirates, would be far better off flying 20 days on and 10 off (all as a block at home base) with KAL, rather than going to SIA for very substantially less money, what seems to be very poor treatment and the odd couple of days here and there, throughout the month, back in Perth or Brisbane. More especially as they can live within striking distance of any of the big OZ cities/airports if with KAL.
Alternatively, KAL is happy to base 777 pilots in Brisbane, though the tax situation is not as advantageous – their words, not mine. KAL can fix work permits, in most cases, for non OZ pilots who want to get a toe hold down under.
Both agencies stated that the contract pilots with KAL are very happy with their terms and conditions and KAL go out of their way to keep it that way. I’m sure the agencies would say this anyway but the above seems to be borne out by what’s said by the 744/777 guys I know in KAL.
Guess where I’ve applied to!
KAL does, as stated, pay income tax to the Korean authorities on a notional salary, “earned locally”, for the individual pilots and as there is a double taxation treaty between Korea and most other countries (inc OZ), the pilots flying with KAL are therefore fire proof in their country of residence. Five star hotel accommodation is provided in Seoul between flights, plus down route when flying. A daily allowance is paid in Seoul and down route. There is a generous annual bonus to keep the guys interested and this is under review so I couldn’t get the numbers. Travel to and from nominated home station is by first class confirmed interline flights. Staff travel is the standard unlimited ID 90 basis in F/J/Y class as preferred and based on excursion fares for pilot and family.
It would seem to me that, in the present case, 777 rated OZ pilots returning home from, for instance, Emirates, would be far better off flying 20 days on and 10 off (all as a block at home base) with KAL, rather than going to SIA for very substantially less money, what seems to be very poor treatment and the odd couple of days here and there, throughout the month, back in Perth or Brisbane. More especially as they can live within striking distance of any of the big OZ cities/airports if with KAL.
Alternatively, KAL is happy to base 777 pilots in Brisbane, though the tax situation is not as advantageous – their words, not mine. KAL can fix work permits, in most cases, for non OZ pilots who want to get a toe hold down under.
Both agencies stated that the contract pilots with KAL are very happy with their terms and conditions and KAL go out of their way to keep it that way. I’m sure the agencies would say this anyway but the above seems to be borne out by what’s said by the 744/777 guys I know in KAL.
Guess where I’ve applied to!
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For those interested the current taxation rates in Aust are as follows.
Net income. Marginal rate
0 - 6,000 0%
6001 - 20,000 17%
20,001 - 50,000 30%
50,001 - 60,000 42%
60,001+ 47%
This is a sliding scale system. For example the total tax payable on an income of $50,000 after deductions, credits and rebates is $11,380.
For $100,000 the tax is $34,380
For $150,000 the tax is $57,880
Taxable incomes can be further reduced considerably using well known investment strategies.
Net income. Marginal rate
0 - 6,000 0%
6001 - 20,000 17%
20,001 - 50,000 30%
50,001 - 60,000 42%
60,001+ 47%
This is a sliding scale system. For example the total tax payable on an income of $50,000 after deductions, credits and rebates is $11,380.
For $100,000 the tax is $34,380
For $150,000 the tax is $57,880
Taxable incomes can be further reduced considerably using well known investment strategies.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bokomoko
You probably already have the information , but A$168K is not a good salary except if you're in GA.
Jet capts in Ansett and QF domestic get 200+.
737 Capts in AN flying max hours are currently earning close to .25M, and well over after super contribution and DTA included - gotta boost it up like the CX guys do.
However, tax is the killer. I'll pay over A$100K this year and that's no fun when you see it keeping losers and professional social security users.
If you qualify for what KAL are looking for, or even the current Air Japan contracts, better go for that than come here. Any job that'll pay you offshore has to be better
You probably already have the information , but A$168K is not a good salary except if you're in GA.
Jet capts in Ansett and QF domestic get 200+.
737 Capts in AN flying max hours are currently earning close to .25M, and well over after super contribution and DTA included - gotta boost it up like the CX guys do.
However, tax is the killer. I'll pay over A$100K this year and that's no fun when you see it keeping losers and professional social security users.
If you qualify for what KAL are looking for, or even the current Air Japan contracts, better go for that than come here. Any job that'll pay you offshore has to be better
Guest
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Spad,
You're tragic. The pilots' dispute in Oz was almost 12 (twelve) years ago, and you're still talking about scabs. I suppose you're still having the Saturday afternoon BBQs and burning effigies - is that you?
Better get on with life. There's serious evidence that stress, bitterness, hatred all contribute to cancer. You have to be a prime candidate.
You're tragic. The pilots' dispute in Oz was almost 12 (twelve) years ago, and you're still talking about scabs. I suppose you're still having the Saturday afternoon BBQs and burning effigies - is that you?
Better get on with life. There's serious evidence that stress, bitterness, hatred all contribute to cancer. You have to be a prime candidate.
Guest
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I word of humble advice.
I know that those of you applying for these SIA Maurtius positions believe that flying a 777 is the be all and end all. Many of us here on Pprune have been through the SIA grinder and we know what we are talking about. We joined the company believing we would be joining an airline in the same mould as our national carries i.e. Qantas, BA, Air NZ, SAS. How wrong we were. There is no prestige in working for SIA, for you are treated like dirt. You are a cost of production and nothing more. The real losers will be your family, future family or lack there of.
You guys are fortunate in that you have us here to show you the hidden, dark, nasty side of SIA.
Driving a big plane wears off quickly. Be careful and remember that more often than not it is better to have travelled hopefully than to arrive.
I know that those of you applying for these SIA Maurtius positions believe that flying a 777 is the be all and end all. Many of us here on Pprune have been through the SIA grinder and we know what we are talking about. We joined the company believing we would be joining an airline in the same mould as our national carries i.e. Qantas, BA, Air NZ, SAS. How wrong we were. There is no prestige in working for SIA, for you are treated like dirt. You are a cost of production and nothing more. The real losers will be your family, future family or lack there of.
You guys are fortunate in that you have us here to show you the hidden, dark, nasty side of SIA.
Driving a big plane wears off quickly. Be careful and remember that more often than not it is better to have travelled hopefully than to arrive.