Polish AF Casa 295 crashes
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Polish AF Casa 295 crashes
Polish TV station, TVN24.pl, is reporting that an air force Casa 295 has crashed in N. Poland, apparently carrying 23 people.
In a tragically ironic twist, those on board were attending a "Flight Safety in Poland" conference.
The Casa 295 is a very new aircraft in Polish AF service.
In a tragically ironic twist, those on board were attending a "Flight Safety in Poland" conference.
The Casa 295 is a very new aircraft in Polish AF service.
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Last information, 4 crew and 14 "passengers",
all of them high ranking Polish Air Force pilots.
May they rest in peace...
Went down 800m from threshold on landing in Mirosławiec.
http://onephoto.net/info.php3?id=157005
http://onephoto.net/info.php3?id=482294
all of them high ranking Polish Air Force pilots.
May they rest in peace...
Went down 800m from threshold on landing in Mirosławiec.
http://onephoto.net/info.php3?id=157005
http://onephoto.net/info.php3?id=482294
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Spanish TV text already reporting that pilot error is very likely, Oh well save money and cancel the investigation then.
It's easy to blame the pilot for everything!
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Very sad news indeed. Condelences go out to all the families.
News is reporting that during the time of the landing, the ILS was not functioning properly. The pilot made 2 attempts to come in on the ILS, as the first time he did not see the runway. How much truth there is to that I do not know.
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the ILS was not functioning properly. The pilot made 2 attempts to come in on the ILS, as the first time he did not see the runway. How much truth there is to that I do not know.
The ILS was INOP, they made precise approach guided
by ground officer observing the AC on two radar screens
(vertical and horizontal).
On first approach the pilot didn't see the runway at decision height
and declared a go-around.
On second approach he reported "runway in sight" and the
ground officer quit giving directions...
They crashed few seconds later.
There was no distress call.
Rumour is (from my friend in Navy Aviation Base near
to the place of accident) that icing might have been a
factor of the crash.
METAR EPMI 231800Z 19001MPS 3000 BR BKN003 OVC070 01/00 Q1027 756/7
METAR EPMI 231700Z 00000MPS 4000 BR BKN003 OVC073 01/00 Q1027 757/0
METAR EPMI 231600Z 18001MPS 4000 BR OVC004 01/00 Q1027 757/2
Last edited by Ptkay; 24th Jan 2008 at 20:47.
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On second approach he reported "runway in sight" and the
ground officer quit giving directions...
They crashed few seconds later.
There was no distress call.
ground officer quit giving directions...
They crashed few seconds later.
There was no distress call.
Last GCAs I experienced, the controllers would continue with "information" calls for centreline and glidepath until touchdown after the pilot called visual. This was done to help prevent such possible departures.
Very sad indeed.
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Sounds like the PAR controller screwed the pooch on this approach. Are European METARS in feet or meters? If that was a ceiling of 300 meters, he would have had plenty of time to break out and see the runway environment.
If it was 300', we're talking about another story - I have done an ILS in VMC only to enter cloud 50' above DH - ground fog can be a bitch.
If it was 300', we're talking about another story - I have done an ILS in VMC only to enter cloud 50' above DH - ground fog can be a bitch.
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The latest news mention 60-100 m ceiling,
so METAR seems to be in feet, it's a NATO military field,
so METARS probably in NATO units.
It was mentioned also that on the first approach the
lighting system was not at full power,
switched to HIGH on pilots demand for the second approach.
In the fever of botched first approach,
and difficult second one ( 60-100 m ceiling )
they might have forgotten the anti ice...
The witness from crash site says, they hit the
tree tops, bounced or pulled, then obviously stalled
and hit the ground in steep angle.
AC totally destructed, compressed to, what
witness calls "a ball of folded aluminium"...
so METAR seems to be in feet, it's a NATO military field,
so METARS probably in NATO units.
It was mentioned also that on the first approach the
lighting system was not at full power,
switched to HIGH on pilots demand for the second approach.
In the fever of botched first approach,
and difficult second one ( 60-100 m ceiling )
they might have forgotten the anti ice...
The witness from crash site says, they hit the
tree tops, bounced or pulled, then obviously stalled
and hit the ground in steep angle.
AC totally destructed, compressed to, what
witness calls "a ball of folded aluminium"...
According to METAR, the cloud base was 300ft. Possibly even lower during the crash.
The lighting system was switched to full power for the second approach on pilot's request.
Arrakis
The lighting system was switched to full power for the second approach on pilot's request.
Arrakis
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Sounds like the PAR controller screwed the pooch on this approach
Oh, interesting comment.......based on what evidence? What a crass remark you muppet!
It's pretty obvious that you know little or **** all about approaches into Polish Airports, or come to think about it - any airports. Did you ever fly an airplane in IMC?
Oh, interesting comment.......based on what evidence? What a crass remark you muppet!
It's pretty obvious that you know little or **** all about approaches into Polish Airports, or come to think about it - any airports. Did you ever fly an airplane in IMC?
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Oh, interesting comment.......based on what evidence? What a crass remark you muppet!
It's pretty obvious that you know little or **** all about approaches into Polish Airports, or come to think about it - any airports. Did you ever fly an airplane in IMC?
if this approach was under PAR control that means that someone was monitoring that fatal approach until the very end, right?
we all don't know what happened from the moment pilot said "I see the runway" until the crash but some of us may conclude that approach was (or was supposed to be) under PAR... so why the heck PAR controller did not respond with "you are too low!"??? did he switch the radar off when pilot said "I see the runway"??
this is all sad and we should stay calm but this kind of emotional response is not something which is nice... and, as far as I know PAR approaches are performed with military planes and only on military airports in Poland.
It's pretty obvious that you know little or **** all about approaches into Polish Airports, or come to think about it - any airports. Did you ever fly an airplane in IMC?
if this approach was under PAR control that means that someone was monitoring that fatal approach until the very end, right?
we all don't know what happened from the moment pilot said "I see the runway" until the crash but some of us may conclude that approach was (or was supposed to be) under PAR... so why the heck PAR controller did not respond with "you are too low!"??? did he switch the radar off when pilot said "I see the runway"??
this is all sad and we should stay calm but this kind of emotional response is not something which is nice... and, as far as I know PAR approaches are performed with military planes and only on military airports in Poland.
Last edited by GfaRm; 27th Jan 2008 at 21:00.
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They still use the PAR in Poland, but knowing the way the military operates here, The crew were told to land and thats it, the weather looks like had little effect on the way the military operates..
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The 13th Transportation Squad of the PAF using CASA is
operates from Balice in Krakow (EPKK).
This is an international airport equipped with perfectly operating ILS.
They are used to ILS and 90% of their missions are ILS.
The flight on that day before crash was to (from AIP Poland):
EPWA ILS CAT II RWY 33.
EPPW ILS CAT I RWY 29L /Facilities flight checked not compliant to ICAO requirements contained in Doc 8071.
EPKS ILS CAT I RWY 30 /Military facilities NOT CERTIFIED by Civil Aviation Authority.
...and then
EPMI CAT II RWY 30 /INOP
...landing on PAR
Those boys were flying hundreds of international missions,
to Kabul, Bagdad etc. most of the time ILS.
They probably didn't train PAR approaches frequently.
On the other side the EPMI PAR officer(s) was (were) mainly
handling landings of Su-22 fighter-bomber, very agile
aircraft with landing speed double of that of CASA.
They wer used to the reaction time of Su-22 to a PAR
order "up" "down" "left" "right" witch was much faster than CASA...
Just my thoughts.
Nevertheless the icing hypothesis is still very probable.
operates from Balice in Krakow (EPKK).
This is an international airport equipped with perfectly operating ILS.
They are used to ILS and 90% of their missions are ILS.
The flight on that day before crash was to (from AIP Poland):
EPWA ILS CAT II RWY 33.
EPPW ILS CAT I RWY 29L /Facilities flight checked not compliant to ICAO requirements contained in Doc 8071.
EPKS ILS CAT I RWY 30 /Military facilities NOT CERTIFIED by Civil Aviation Authority.
...and then
EPMI CAT II RWY 30 /INOP
...landing on PAR
Those boys were flying hundreds of international missions,
to Kabul, Bagdad etc. most of the time ILS.
They probably didn't train PAR approaches frequently.
On the other side the EPMI PAR officer(s) was (were) mainly
handling landings of Su-22 fighter-bomber, very agile
aircraft with landing speed double of that of CASA.
They wer used to the reaction time of Su-22 to a PAR
order "up" "down" "left" "right" witch was much faster than CASA...
Just my thoughts.
Nevertheless the icing hypothesis is still very probable.