BA Pilots to ballot for strike over OpenSkies
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Koi - I was going to write a reasoned response but why bother, you are just a jerk, a jealous, BA pilot hating jerk. Watch - BALPA will win.
BA think they can win by turning pilots into hate figures within the company who have no authority and no self esteem - result, BA is a chaotic airline with no leadership and p*ss poor prospects. Lost bags anyone?
Now they think they can transpose this model using every Pavel and Ivan with a european license who is willing to chuck their health away on a roster that would kill an elephant in an airline that will be run by dictat and in which they will earn peanuts for slavery. Its laughable.
BALPA will win because, in an almost phyrric vistory, it will be demonstrated that Air France/KLM and Lufthansa will be the winners in the network carrier game. They dont seek to smash pilots as a professional group and have demonstrably better hubs, management and a willingness to grant a shred of dignity to and understanding of front line staff. By the time this becomes glaringly obvious, if it is'nt already, BA will be a collapsed twitching mess with banks wondering how the implosion happened and the usual cast of villains discussing how to flog the dead horse into one more spurt of life. Then along will come a management team with the glaringly obvious insight that airlines are ultimately a service business and, unless you are running a blue-painted cattle truck point to point with no attempt at service, then a service is delivered by people, empowered and treated as such.
By then, hopefully something will be left to salvage. But what of that to you, eh, Koi?
Nothing I'll wager. You'll just sit there and laugh smugly as a British employer self destructs and takes down the livelihoods of thousands of British workers with it. What fun a chat with you across the bar must be.
BA think they can win by turning pilots into hate figures within the company who have no authority and no self esteem - result, BA is a chaotic airline with no leadership and p*ss poor prospects. Lost bags anyone?
Now they think they can transpose this model using every Pavel and Ivan with a european license who is willing to chuck their health away on a roster that would kill an elephant in an airline that will be run by dictat and in which they will earn peanuts for slavery. Its laughable.
BALPA will win because, in an almost phyrric vistory, it will be demonstrated that Air France/KLM and Lufthansa will be the winners in the network carrier game. They dont seek to smash pilots as a professional group and have demonstrably better hubs, management and a willingness to grant a shred of dignity to and understanding of front line staff. By the time this becomes glaringly obvious, if it is'nt already, BA will be a collapsed twitching mess with banks wondering how the implosion happened and the usual cast of villains discussing how to flog the dead horse into one more spurt of life. Then along will come a management team with the glaringly obvious insight that airlines are ultimately a service business and, unless you are running a blue-painted cattle truck point to point with no attempt at service, then a service is delivered by people, empowered and treated as such.
By then, hopefully something will be left to salvage. But what of that to you, eh, Koi?
Nothing I'll wager. You'll just sit there and laugh smugly as a British employer self destructs and takes down the livelihoods of thousands of British workers with it. What fun a chat with you across the bar must be.
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Koi
Dan Air were if I remember bought by BA 1 pound sterling.BALPA membership somewhat less than 100 %.
British Caledonian on the otherhand were bought for a bit more (£ 225 million)
had 100 % BALPA membership and thanks to BALPA were treated very well.Some would argue that their subscriptions are worth every penny.
BALPA will not break ranks on this one.The present BALPA leaders are a formidable bunch.Very intellegent,focused,driven (largely junior) militant and strong leaders.If the current managment at BA want to pick a fight with them then thats up to them.No problem.Reminds me of that character in Monty Python without any arms and legs telling a Knight in armour that he has not finished with him.
Dan Air were if I remember bought by BA 1 pound sterling.BALPA membership somewhat less than 100 %.
British Caledonian on the otherhand were bought for a bit more (£ 225 million)
had 100 % BALPA membership and thanks to BALPA were treated very well.Some would argue that their subscriptions are worth every penny.
BALPA will not break ranks on this one.The present BALPA leaders are a formidable bunch.Very intellegent,focused,driven (largely junior) militant and strong leaders.If the current managment at BA want to pick a fight with them then thats up to them.No problem.Reminds me of that character in Monty Python without any arms and legs telling a Knight in armour that he has not finished with him.
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What difference does it make how much the company is sold for or what BALPA membership it has at the time, as long as there was enough to get recognition (which Dan-Air had for a very long time).
BALPA should be there to support ALL it's members equally, regardless of what airline they work for or how much their company is worth.
BALPA should be there to support ALL it's members equally, regardless of what airline they work for or how much their company is worth.
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It's in the past. BALPA is a very different beast now. The BACC reps are extremely effective and have already sorted out some issues such as pensions and work coverage with a lot of lateral thinking and an intelligent, reasoned approach. They tried this with OS, but BA just refused to listen. It is this fact, and the fact a strike could cost 100's milllions, that makes us all believe there must be a very big prize at stake.....the wholesale destruction of our terms and conditions. And don't believe its just BA that will suffer, Branson won't let his pilots get away with working 750 hrs a year for more money than BA if we lose. This affects everyone in the business. Cheer our potential downfall at your peril.
the wholesale destruction of our terms and conditions.
Perhaps being destroyed by its pilots is what it deserves. But when that's done intentionally it seems just dumb, like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Stop the whip-sawing
This whole Open Skies sounds exactly like what Air Canada tried to do by buying Skyservice Airlines, a charter carrier. ACPA put a stop to that pretty quickly and BALPA had better do the same.
Many of AC's domestic routes are now served by AC Jazz, where they used to be flown by AC mainline.
Set the Parking Brakes boys, and don't release them until Open Skies is history.
to BALPA for their hard-line.
Many of AC's domestic routes are now served by AC Jazz, where they used to be flown by AC mainline.
Set the Parking Brakes boys, and don't release them until Open Skies is history.
to BALPA for their hard-line.
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Its a very sad day indeed when it becomes obvious that the company you are proud to work for has no qualms at all in treating you all like school dunces. I had respect for the management and their role in making BA a success. They must be doing something right as we are making great profits and new aircraft on order and T5 looming ... The pilotworkforce has played their part in that success however. We have shown great flexibility over the years on many issues - and new agreements have been drawn up accordingly. Why then has it come to this today? Is it so necessary for the success of Openskies to have a different pilotworkforce? Answer- No!! As of yet I still wait to hear someone from management tell me how the new airline will fail if they use a common seniority list between the two. Other airlines seem confident of making a success of it. Why not the worlds most profitable?
On a daily basis we undertake great responsibility- with massive consequences if we make mistakes. We work long hours - very frequently above and beyond our remit -at no extra pay!!! -all just to keep the show on the road. That is just what we do. All a bit demoralising when on returning home way into discretion - you find no transport to the carpark - no thanks - and oh yes - disrespectful and unappreciative management demonstrating these traits with an underhand attack on our job security.
On a daily basis we undertake great responsibility- with massive consequences if we make mistakes. We work long hours - very frequently above and beyond our remit -at no extra pay!!! -all just to keep the show on the road. That is just what we do. All a bit demoralising when on returning home way into discretion - you find no transport to the carpark - no thanks - and oh yes - disrespectful and unappreciative management demonstrating these traits with an underhand attack on our job security.
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Everyone loves to hate BA.
But what about when those filthy unloved planes in blue are being flown by ‘Pavel and Ivan’?
How do you think LHR will work then?
You may hate us, but do you really think Heathrow will be just as safe with 3500 strangers?
But what about when those filthy unloved planes in blue are being flown by ‘Pavel and Ivan’?
How do you think LHR will work then?
You may hate us, but do you really think Heathrow will be just as safe with 3500 strangers?
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Koi,
I'm not sure what point you think I have hit, but you misunderstand me. I was outlining the reasons for the dispute, a dispute I am very confident BALPA will win, and without bankrupting BA.
You appear to belong to the economically semi-literate union-haters who love to quote "the market". Industrial disputes are not always conflicts between Marxist trade unions and brave, clear-sighted, free-market management, which the former are doomed to lose. Looking at recent European pilot strikes, who won at Aer Lingus? At Lufthansa? Has the sky fallen in at those companies?
I'm not sure what point you think I have hit, but you misunderstand me. I was outlining the reasons for the dispute, a dispute I am very confident BALPA will win, and without bankrupting BA.
You appear to belong to the economically semi-literate union-haters who love to quote "the market". Industrial disputes are not always conflicts between Marxist trade unions and brave, clear-sighted, free-market management, which the former are doomed to lose. Looking at recent European pilot strikes, who won at Aer Lingus? At Lufthansa? Has the sky fallen in at those companies?
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BA Pilots set to Strike
Koi's - history, H*mble, Balpa Rep in the 70s and 80s and independants for 30 yr. Time of my life in the real world. I say again, if you want to see how it should be done then look at the medics and the Royal Colleges method of controlling recruitment, terms, conditions quality and regulation. Untouchable for decades, with government after government unable or unwilling to press the restart button. Airlines are ruled by thugs in suits, they have to be or you simply wouldnt have jobs. With me so far ! That BA pilots have been able to maintain.... what are nothing more than restrictive operating practices for so long is simply unacceptable and a red rag to the industry. Come on fellas, look outside into the other world. I dont like to see folks suffer, but this is long overdue and will become addictive viewing fo many of us. Pass the tissues. Koi needs to wipe away tears.
Koi
Koi
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fools
the airline management should be responsible for the loss of profits caused by everybody booking on other carriers. like many times before this could have been averted by talks with the union.
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Airlines are ruled by thugs in suits, they have to be or you simply wouldnt have jobs. With me so far ! That BA pilots have been able to maintain.... what are nothing more than restrictive operating practices for so long is simply unacceptable and a red rag to the industry
If the BA pilots have never realised this, they are in for a rude awakining.
Imperial Airways died and went to heaven a long time ago.
Airlines are a cut-throat business, make no mistake.
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Get your facts right 411A
411A
You stated:
Actually not so. On 12 June, 1939 the British Overseas Airways Corporation Ltd Bill was introduced in the House of Commons by Sir Kingsley Wood providing for the merger of Imperial Airways and British Airways Ltd.
BOAC continued until BOAC and BEA were combined to form the modern British Airways in the mid seventies.
There was no death involved.
Regards
Stoic
You stated:
Imperial Airways died and went to heaven a long time ago.
BOAC continued until BOAC and BEA were combined to form the modern British Airways in the mid seventies.
There was no death involved.
Regards
Stoic
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Originally Posted by Koi
I say again, if you want to see how it should be done then look at the medics and the Royal Colleges method of controlling recruitment, terms, conditions quality and regulation. Untouchable for decades, with government after government unable or unwilling to press the restart button. Airlines are ruled by thugs in suits, they have to be or you simply wouldnt have jobs. With me so far ! That BA pilots have been able to maintain.... what are nothing more than restrictive operating practices for so long is simply unacceptable and a red rag to the industry.
By holding up the medics as an example you reveal yourself to have been somewhat detached from the real world for the last 5 years or so. The world has changed since you last looked outside and I doubt you'll find many junior medics sharing your rosy view of the royal colleges.
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KOI said
...and with that statement you have proved yourself the fool that others suspect you of being. imho.
I am SH and will be close to 800hrs this year. It is nearly impossible to get me to do more hours as I am continually up against FTL limits (ie Scheme, not BLRs). How come I have 'restrictive operating practices' then?
You quite simply have no idea what you are talking about.
BA haters I can understand, but ignorant BA haters? O pleazzze....
Meanwhile, back to the thread
That BA pilots have been able to maintain.... what are nothing more than restrictive operating practices for so long is simply unacceptable and a red rag to the industry.
I am SH and will be close to 800hrs this year. It is nearly impossible to get me to do more hours as I am continually up against FTL limits (ie Scheme, not BLRs). How come I have 'restrictive operating practices' then?
You quite simply have no idea what you are talking about.
BA haters I can understand, but ignorant BA haters? O pleazzze....
Meanwhile, back to the thread
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BA Pilots to Strike
All
Shall we let nature take its course. The tissues are at the ready. Doesn't the song go 'we didn't start the fire... it was always burning... Bob Aisling was put in place to start the process of breaking the unions. A good start with the cabin crew was made for Willy to finish off. Do your pursers still hail from their lairs in southern spain , fly in to smokie and mince there way around the work place. Who pays for those cheap seats...sorry guys.. no pun intended. Must control costs. Cut staff travel now and allow just 10% discount on full price. Shareholders take note. I do hope that the FO's pay has caught up with the cabin crews and that the ''command bridge ''pay for the long term FO s = no hopers or fleet / base protection players, who will not reach command before retirement ,jumps in decent chunks for the pension calculation. I hope that:
the hundred or more pilots that leave BA each year to persue careers in the big wide world will write an article or two in the Log.
that the young man in charge of cadet recruitment eventually achieves command before retirement.
that they reinstate cheese board and the free use of Latin by senior captains. [ ok just taking the piss] That some of the young turks on a mission in BA ....eventually catch up with us 50 gusting seventies and realise that we have long seen this coming. The market will make a correction.
Tissues please... and be quick.
Koi
Shall we let nature take its course. The tissues are at the ready. Doesn't the song go 'we didn't start the fire... it was always burning... Bob Aisling was put in place to start the process of breaking the unions. A good start with the cabin crew was made for Willy to finish off. Do your pursers still hail from their lairs in southern spain , fly in to smokie and mince there way around the work place. Who pays for those cheap seats...sorry guys.. no pun intended. Must control costs. Cut staff travel now and allow just 10% discount on full price. Shareholders take note. I do hope that the FO's pay has caught up with the cabin crews and that the ''command bridge ''pay for the long term FO s = no hopers or fleet / base protection players, who will not reach command before retirement ,jumps in decent chunks for the pension calculation. I hope that:
the hundred or more pilots that leave BA each year to persue careers in the big wide world will write an article or two in the Log.
that the young man in charge of cadet recruitment eventually achieves command before retirement.
that they reinstate cheese board and the free use of Latin by senior captains. [ ok just taking the piss] That some of the young turks on a mission in BA ....eventually catch up with us 50 gusting seventies and realise that we have long seen this coming. The market will make a correction.
Tissues please... and be quick.
Koi
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When is the ballot result due out ?
Good luck all you guys at British Airways. Your management must be brought to its knees over this. It is reminescent of Custer's last stand as far as BALPA is concerned.
If BALPA loses this, there will be a stampede out of the union and we might as well all pack up and go home because the future will be frightening.
Regards
Orion Man
Good luck all you guys at British Airways. Your management must be brought to its knees over this. It is reminescent of Custer's last stand as far as BALPA is concerned.
If BALPA loses this, there will be a stampede out of the union and we might as well all pack up and go home because the future will be frightening.
Regards
Orion Man