DFT and Airport ID
Join Date: Jan 2008
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In any event it does get up the nose of the jobsworths.
Unfortunately the 'jobsworths' are doing the bidding of the Aerodrome Manager and apart from DfT regs there at all UK airports local regs apply also. Don't ask me why. It's just the way it is. Until the UK has a standardised security system meaning all security is in the hands of DfT - without local interference - there will always be differences. But in any case if the 'jobsworths' don't do as they are instructed they are fired. They are then replaced by 'newbies' who have less idea than the 20 year vets previous. Don't forget all are created equal, pax and crew. All are treated the same according to the law. Silver bracelets are awarded to those who disagree! 
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At my airport I work for Pax services. We sometimes have crew/engineers from airliners that are not based at my airport; therefore security will not allow them to go through the Validation Point with their own ID. So all we do is write out a manual boarding card and send them through the passenger route. Once they are through security they can then go over to a gate and ring our operations who will collect them from there.
So security would NOT allow them through on an ID which was issued by another Airport and approved by the DfT, but all I had was write their name on a manual boarding card and then they could just walk through the passenger security.
Ingenious! Unfortunately if your engineer is caught s/he will be arrested. Not worth it really is it. And you could lose your job to boot. The rules are there for a reason. Why is it people see them as a challenge rather than something to adhere to? They may seem crazy, we may not like them, but they're LAW.
So security would NOT allow them through on an ID which was issued by another Airport and approved by the DfT, but all I had was write their name on a manual boarding card and then they could just walk through the passenger security.
Ingenious! Unfortunately if your engineer is caught s/he will be arrested. Not worth it really is it. And you could lose your job to boot. The rules are there for a reason. Why is it people see them as a challenge rather than something to adhere to? They may seem crazy, we may not like them, but they're LAW.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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norsman7
I thank you for bringing the thread back to the original issue.
I am part of an airport management team, all be it a very small one. When you have the D of T, the Police and other agencies to deal with, along with the press who think it's a good "story" to sneak on-to the airfield, you start to get a little paranoid in a post 9-11 world.
As a RED go anywhere ID holder, I find it equally frustrating to visit other airfields complete usually with passport, ID and some pre-agreement between the airports managers, but accept in the current climate that's how it is, until everybody in the industry forces the issue with the D of T, nothing is likely to happen.
As for airport security staff, sure some are over zealous, but some are also ex-cops / forces and have a nose for things not being quite right.
I believe the BAA as the biggest issuer of Security passes ought to take the lead - but I think we can all be realistic about the chances of that !
Sadly those actually in positions of power are those least inconvenienced by it - I'd love to be able to refuse entry to a senior official saying that they don't have authorization but somehow think they might just turn the tables on us in regards the inspection audit.
Unfortunately the 'jobsworths' are doing the bidding of the Aerodrome Manager and apart from DfT regs there at all UK airports local regs apply also. Don't ask me why. It's just the way it is. Until the UK has a standardised security system meaning all security is in the hands of DfT - without local interference - there will always be differences.
I am part of an airport management team, all be it a very small one. When you have the D of T, the Police and other agencies to deal with, along with the press who think it's a good "story" to sneak on-to the airfield, you start to get a little paranoid in a post 9-11 world.
As a RED go anywhere ID holder, I find it equally frustrating to visit other airfields complete usually with passport, ID and some pre-agreement between the airports managers, but accept in the current climate that's how it is, until everybody in the industry forces the issue with the D of T, nothing is likely to happen.
As for airport security staff, sure some are over zealous, but some are also ex-cops / forces and have a nose for things not being quite right.
I believe the BAA as the biggest issuer of Security passes ought to take the lead - but I think we can all be realistic about the chances of that !
Sadly those actually in positions of power are those least inconvenienced by it - I'd love to be able to refuse entry to a senior official saying that they don't have authorization but somehow think they might just turn the tables on us in regards the inspection audit.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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UK BAA Airport. I am the captain of the flight with a Europen ID. My cabin crew, locally based, are also at the crew check point. They have only a temporary ID, for that base, issued by the company. The backlog in criminal security check was taking months and their full ID pass was imminent. Thus they needed an escort. I was not allowed to escort my own crew because I did not have a local ID. Thus a junior sprog, all of 19 years freckle faced, escorted us all in absolute un-questionable highest security mode to the crew room. It reminded me why I had left ludicrous UK.
At my airport I work for Pax services. We sometimes have crew/engineers from airliners that are not based at my airport; therefore security will not allow them to go through the Validation Point with their own ID. So all we do is write out a manual boarding card and send them through the passenger route. Once they are through security they can then go over to a gate and ring our operations who will collect them from there.
So security would NOT allow them through on an ID which was issued by another Airport and approved by the DfT, but all I had was write their name on a manual boarding card and then they could just walk through the passenger security.
Ingenious! Unfortunately if your engineer is caught s/he will be arrested. Not worth it really is it. And you could lose your job to boot. The rules are there for a reason. Why is it people see them as a challenge rather than something to adhere to? They may seem crazy, we may not like them, but they're LAW
this is what security tell us to do and the only way they will let crew etc through
So security would NOT allow them through on an ID which was issued by another Airport and approved by the DfT, but all I had was write their name on a manual boarding card and then they could just walk through the passenger security.
Ingenious! Unfortunately if your engineer is caught s/he will be arrested. Not worth it really is it. And you could lose your job to boot. The rules are there for a reason. Why is it people see them as a challenge rather than something to adhere to? They may seem crazy, we may not like them, but they're LAW
this is what security tell us to do and the only way they will let crew etc through
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BHX is a right royal pain in the arse. If you don't have a BHX pass and if you want unescorted airside access then you need to be registered on some list. Never come across it at any other airport.
Had great fun about six months ago. I was sat with my crew after operating into BHX and waiting to position out but we were delayed. I decide to pop into the terminal to get some grub for the crew. I return to security and present my pass, which raised eyebrows since it was not a BHX issued pass. They then get even more anxious when I don't appear on their mystery list of names. They then ask to see my licence. 'That's not a problem' I replied but I then explained that it was on board the aircraft.... which was parked on a remote stand and to cap it all off it was pissing it down outside with heavy rain!!!
The subsequent look of bewilderment on the security chaps face was well worth it!!! In the end they ended up calling a member of groundstaff to vouch for me! Pathetic!
We often have engineers travelling with as as supernumery crew. I often wondered why so many of them regularaly wear their stripes to work. The penny quickly dropped when it comes to security. Unfortunately the wearing of stripes has more of an effect in Southern Europe where the security regulations are slightly more relaxed anyway!
Had great fun about six months ago. I was sat with my crew after operating into BHX and waiting to position out but we were delayed. I decide to pop into the terminal to get some grub for the crew. I return to security and present my pass, which raised eyebrows since it was not a BHX issued pass. They then get even more anxious when I don't appear on their mystery list of names. They then ask to see my licence. 'That's not a problem' I replied but I then explained that it was on board the aircraft.... which was parked on a remote stand and to cap it all off it was pissing it down outside with heavy rain!!!
The subsequent look of bewilderment on the security chaps face was well worth it!!! In the end they ended up calling a member of groundstaff to vouch for me! Pathetic!We often have engineers travelling with as as supernumery crew. I often wondered why so many of them regularaly wear their stripes to work. The penny quickly dropped when it comes to security. Unfortunately the wearing of stripes has more of an effect in Southern Europe where the security regulations are slightly more relaxed anyway!
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Hey chaps, why doesn't the CAA put a photograph of the holder in all UK professional licences! And then we could simply require all operators to notify the CAA whom they employ as aircrew - the Authority could then maintain a computerised record of all professional pilots etc working in this country.
What do you mean 'it can't be done'!
What do you mean 'it can't be done'!
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I was based at BHX a few years ago and the Security people there were doing the "inspect your licence" trick then. I always made a point of saying to them that I would not let them see my address incase they sent their mates round to rob my house. One guy said "what's up, don't you trust me ??" Priceless.
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Hey chaps, why doesn't the CAA put a photograph of the holder in all UK professional licences! And then we could simply require all operators to notify the CAA whom they employ as aircrew - the Authority could then maintain a computerised record of all professional pilots etc working in this country.
What do you mean 'it can't be done'!
What do you mean 'it can't be done'!
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At my airport I work for Pax services. We sometimes have crew/engineers from airliners that are not based at my airport; therefore security will not allow them to go through the Validation Point with their own ID. So all we do is write out a manual boarding card and send them through the passenger route. Once they are through security they can then go over to a gate and ring our operations who will collect them from there.
So security would NOT allow them through on an ID which was issued by another Airport and approved by the DfT, but all I had was write their name on a manual boarding card and then they could just walk through the passenger security.
Ingenious! Unfortunately if your engineer is caught s/he will be arrested. Not worth it really is it. And you could lose your job to boot. The rules are there for a reason. Why is it people see them as a challenge rather than something to adhere to? They may seem crazy, we may not like them, but they're LAW
this is what security tell us to do and the only way they will let crew etc through
So security would NOT allow them through on an ID which was issued by another Airport and approved by the DfT, but all I had was write their name on a manual boarding card and then they could just walk through the passenger security.
Ingenious! Unfortunately if your engineer is caught s/he will be arrested. Not worth it really is it. And you could lose your job to boot. The rules are there for a reason. Why is it people see them as a challenge rather than something to adhere to? They may seem crazy, we may not like them, but they're LAW
this is what security tell us to do and the only way they will let crew etc through
I, have in front of me, my CAA ATPL dated 10 February 1987. On the first page (No: FCL 150/1) there is a photograph of me embossed by the Civil Aviation Authority. All professional licences up to that date (and probably beyond) had a photograph of the holder on the opening page.
As best as I can recall, the photographs were withdrawn with the advent of JAA licenses on the basis that "photographs were unecessary".
Isn't progress wonderful?
As best as I can recall, the photographs were withdrawn with the advent of JAA licenses on the basis that "photographs were unecessary".
Isn't progress wonderful?
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The problem is...
...one of validity. There was a series of SciFi books written by a bloke called Doc E.E. Smith about the galaxy-wide fight between good and evil, where he went on at length about the impossibility of REALLY proving that the ID of the good guys was genuine and sorting out the forgeries. Hence, we've got swipable passes, only issued locally, limits on temporary passes etc and all the hassle. The one good thing about being made redundant last year was that I no longer have to take my shoes off to go to work!
Actually, you're quite correct about journos. They are the REAL reason all these daft measures have been introduced. Every time a silly stunt is pulled and someone gets their photo taken airside having hidden in the back of a van or whatever, a new regulation gets dreamed up. Blame them, not the security staff!
TheOddOne
...one of validity. There was a series of SciFi books written by a bloke called Doc E.E. Smith about the galaxy-wide fight between good and evil, where he went on at length about the impossibility of REALLY proving that the ID of the good guys was genuine and sorting out the forgeries. Hence, we've got swipable passes, only issued locally, limits on temporary passes etc and all the hassle. The one good thing about being made redundant last year was that I no longer have to take my shoes off to go to work!
Actually, you're quite correct about journos. They are the REAL reason all these daft measures have been introduced. Every time a silly stunt is pulled and someone gets their photo taken airside having hidden in the back of a van or whatever, a new regulation gets dreamed up. Blame them, not the security staff!
TheOddOne
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Oddone
Very true 
http://www.g4s.com/uk/uk-careers/uk-...es.htm?id=5865
Actually, you're quite correct about journos. They are the REAL reason all these daft measures have been introduced. Every time a silly stunt is pulled and someone gets their photo taken airside having hidden in the back of a van or whatever, a new regulation gets dreamed up. Blame them, not the security staff!
http://www.g4s.com/uk/uk-careers/uk-...es.htm?id=5865
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Norwich can be fun
I flew into Norwich a while back and left my bag in the plane while I was visiting a company there.
When I got back, security said, no licence, no access. I suggested that someone escort me to my aircraft which was within sight of the desk but they said "not possible". Only the timely intervention of the young lady from Flight Briefing who said hi as she walked past stopped me walking outside and through the unlocked gates to go and get my bag!!!!
But still not as much fun as opening my flight bag in Caen and taking out the leather man, Stanley knife, screwdrivers and assorted sharp objects, having then looked at and then putting them back in my bag and allowed to continue airside. I think they seemed more concerned about the light sticks!!!.
When I got back, security said, no licence, no access. I suggested that someone escort me to my aircraft which was within sight of the desk but they said "not possible". Only the timely intervention of the young lady from Flight Briefing who said hi as she walked past stopped me walking outside and through the unlocked gates to go and get my bag!!!!
But still not as much fun as opening my flight bag in Caen and taking out the leather man, Stanley knife, screwdrivers and assorted sharp objects, having then looked at and then putting them back in my bag and allowed to continue airside. I think they seemed more concerned about the light sticks!!!.
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ID's for everyone!
Cunning way for one airport to stop have to escort people who don't have ID, issue random members of the public with an airside pass when they don't require one and they are not employed by an airline, airport, air handling agent or anything to do with aviation!
Then bored security gimp can go back to reading about security breach's in a sunny tabloid!
You couldn't make it up,
ers!
Then bored security gimp can go back to reading about security breach's in a sunny tabloid!
You couldn't make it up,
ers!
Last edited by Northern Listener; 20th Feb 2008 at 18:55. Reason: it's probably still got spelling mistakes
