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New CAA licence front pages

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New CAA licence front pages

Old 17th Dec 2007, 08:51
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New CAA licence front pages

Like many thousands of us, I have just received new pages 1 to 4 for my CAA ATPL. This is to reflect my proficiency in English (yes, I'm typing very carefully).

Previously these pages were on two sheets of paper so that you could insert them folded into two separate slots in the licence. Now they are on one sheet. You fold it and two pages disappear. Every time you get rampchecked in Malaga, to inspect both sides they will pull out this sheet, tear it and leave fingerprints.

Intentional? My mate asked the CAA and yes, it's to save paper. Never mind that the medical certificate is the size of a football pitch. Very laudable, and coming soon is a single sheet ATPL just like your UK driving licence. Then we can scrap the green book altogether.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 08:52
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Cut it in half and place each page in its own slot.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 09:17
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Good idead CaptainSL, but does cutting your license, an official document in two not nullify it?

I too have just received my new license but just assumed it was an error and just put it in my green book for an easy life, what I was more annoyed about was the fact that they didnt send me a new green book when I renewed my license as the other one is on its last legs...

Rgds.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 09:37
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what I was more annoyed about was the fact that they didnt send me a new green book when I renewed my license as the other one is on its last legs...
You only had to ask. If you did, they would have sent you one. I have recently received a new green book when my licence was renewed.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 09:38
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I must be favoured, I got a new green book.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 09:45
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yep i just chopped mine in half to make it fit.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 10:16
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I was wary of cutting because then my name is detached from pages 3 & 4 (but then I suppose that's no different from the original).

Cutting a legal document is usually a very bad idea, I've just checked. You wouldn't chop a size A3 will in half just to make it fit in a box file, would you?

These pages used to be ".... of 6" and now they are "1 of 4", etc. So my "6 of 6" looks a bit stupid, even if it is just the abbreviations.

What is it about the UK at the moment? Everything any government department does seems to be mismanaged.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 10:54
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I phoned 'Flight Crew Licensing' and asked a few weeks ago.

The first response was a rather stroppy

"Well you wouldn't cut your driving licence in half would you ?"

but then I heard someone whispering to her in the background, followed by her coming back and telling me, rather sheepishly, that apparently it was okay to cut it in half after all !

Just make sure you use a sharp pair of scissors.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 11:57
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Rather than use a pair of scissors (dirty, in the dish washer) I shall simply reverse fold and tear...

...followed by sellotape...

I do feel the need to object. Grandfather rights at level 4?
My Grandfather was a university examiner, and therefore I take umbrage.
At the same time, based on this initial assessment, my brother would also achieve level4. Something for which the family would be hugely proud based on his CSE results in english, where one of his teachers was convinced he was communicating in foreign language.
I still am.

Hey ho.
At my next sim, I see a means of achieving an early release from contract-

que?
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 12:42
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Followed by sellotape?

That would constitute ...laminating, wouldn't it? And that is illegal as hell as far as I 've been aware by a recent exchange with the home office ( no, it was not about my ASBO this time ).

PS. Which pilots are entitled/eligible to the new front page of the licence?
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 14:32
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Gonso,

So far as I know, everyone will have a new licence to reflect the new JAR requirement for language proficiency to be graded. Fortunately your post contained no syntax errors so you should get the top level. Good thing you didn't post after a few pints.

Some pilots got them weeks ago but mine has only just arrived, so it's obviously a long drawn out mechanical process with only this thread to liven things up a bit.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 14:40
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I like the bit-
'No charge will be applied to this service'

Thats good. Because I had no intention of paying, so satisfaction all around then.
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 15:05
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Anyone have any idea, roughly, how many UK licence holders will be involved?

The reason I ask is because of this "paper saving" exercise. I mean, even if it involved say... 15,000 licence holders, that means that they are skimping on about 30,000 sheets of A4 paper. Assuming that they buy their A4 in bulk and they use a decent quality 90gsm [email protected] paper, the cost of however many reams that is, is still tiny in the overall cost of things, even if it is pre-printed with their anti-forgery stuff.

A quick search for paper from a popular direct supply company for 60 reams, which should more than cover it, works out to a one off cost of less than 250! So, some poxy beancounter is saving the CAA and the excesses that we all know about at the Belgrano, a few hundred quid and we will all have to either wear our licences out or chop it up ourselves because of this supposed 'saving'. I wonder how many replacements they will have to 're-send' with the associated mailing and manpower costs because of the extra wear and tear or accidental damage this is going to cause? I'd hazard a guess that it would probably end up as a neutral or negative cost saving exercise in the long run.

It just goes to show how stupid some people can be in these civil service outfits that are supposed to be regulating us but in reality are just wasting everyone's time with their 'cost saving' exercises which are purely for the self justification of their miserable jobs in the first place! A classic example of waste and idiocy in one fell swoop!
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 15:52
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Level 4

I thought that the requirement for Level 4 was only applicable when English was not your first language, therefore it is a waste of paper for most of the UK JAA ATPL holders
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 16:33
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My new page came with a clear plastic wallet, which went straight in the bin - what's that all about?
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 17:47
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If Shiny Side Down has quoted correctly:-

'No charge will be applied to this service'

It appears that the paper shuffler who wrote it is confusing static electricity with a demand for payment. Does the CAA require proficiency in English before it employs someone?
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 19:18
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personally, I think they missed a huge opportunity, which is totally out of character for the crew of the belgrano.

option 1. As a seasonal gift to you, who make us essential, we provide this free of charge!
option 2. the cost will be recovered in the charge for the next lpc/opc
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 19:39
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I have a green book and an FAA licence. The FAA ATP is credit card sized piece of paper!!
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Old 17th Dec 2007, 20:42
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Actually the FAA now issues an ATP that is just like a credit card, no longer made out of paper. It's color with a picture of the wright brothers on the back, and will soon start issuing them with the pilot's photo on. Like a proper ID.
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Old 18th Dec 2007, 11:54
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I had forgotten about the useless plastic wallet. Probably because it reached the bin within 10 seconds of my opening the envelope.

So let's get this right. If there are 20,000* new licences, we have saved 10,000 sheet of A4 paper but chucked out 20,000 bits of quality plastic. Meanwhile, 20,000 pilots are attacking their licences with the kitchen scissors.

*theoretical figure, I really haven't a clue
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