AMERICAN FURLOUGHS MORE PILOTS
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AMERICAN FURLOUGHS MORE PILOTS
In addition to the 380 new-hire pilots already furloughed, American will lay off more. Starting with 409 pilots November 7th,...according to Aviation Week. The carrier furloughed 2000 mechanics as well. Most of American's USA city ticket offices have been closed. The recession is deep and brutal with no imminent recovery. 
SkyGod
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Yup, that is correct, 409. November 7th for the first group, December 2nd for the rest.
More axing may follow in January, but hoping for the best. A flow-down system to American Eagle is available for furloughed AA pilots.
So far nobody has started with Eagle.
More axing may follow in January, but hoping for the best. A flow-down system to American Eagle is available for furloughed AA pilots.
So far nobody has started with Eagle.
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TWA is loosing about 150 pilots in this round of furloughs.
(Don't remember the exact number, but less than half of the AA)
Once the seniority lists get intergrated and the dust settles, there could be some "adjustments" to say the least.
Any TWA folks on PPRuNe that could comment?
(And explain the sneak tactics trying to have senator Bond pass a bill to give ya DOH after ya signed away all yer rights so AA would take over and secure yer jobs)
(Don't remember the exact number, but less than half of the AA)
Once the seniority lists get intergrated and the dust settles, there could be some "adjustments" to say the least.
Any TWA folks on PPRuNe that could comment?
(And explain the sneak tactics trying to have senator Bond pass a bill to give ya DOH after ya signed away all yer rights so AA would take over and secure yer jobs)
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...and to add insult to injury, AA paid big time for bankrupt TW, cash they could use now to shore up their own house. No wonder the AA guys are, well....pi@@ed off, another perfect example of short-sighted management.
Unfortunately, it is not likely to change. Airlines MUST be run like a business, not a parlor game.
Unfortunately, it is not likely to change. Airlines MUST be run like a business, not a parlor game.
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Rumour has it that more furloughes in January will take the list down to 10,700 or so. Don't know about the LLC side.
TWA might have been at least a wash if the economy had held up, business travel had held up, and LLC at least was able to fund it's own integration costs. Now none of that has happened, and we have 11 Sep to boot. As it has turned out, AAL has bought a lot of overcapacity with TWA and another white elephant aircraft with the 717. Hope the economy, biz travel, etc turns around soon so everybody can get back to work.
TWA might have been at least a wash if the economy had held up, business travel had held up, and LLC at least was able to fund it's own integration costs. Now none of that has happened, and we have 11 Sep to boot. As it has turned out, AAL has bought a lot of overcapacity with TWA and another white elephant aircraft with the 717. Hope the economy, biz travel, etc turns around soon so everybody can get back to work.
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Now, what's all this from Robert Pastore about the potential of 1,200 or so TWA pilots being furloughed? Even if the seniority integration is nothing more than a "staple job", would the number (for TWA) be that high still?
SkyGod
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737:
The seniority intergration is indeed more than a staple job:
The TWA guys are getting some darn good numbers on the list.
Even the bottom TWA guys get hundreds of AA guys behind 'em.
Not only that, they keep their pay seniority and therefore the TWA guys are being paid better than more senior AA guys.
Don't want to hear any complaints from the TWA side.
The seniority intergration is indeed more than a staple job:
The TWA guys are getting some darn good numbers on the list.
Even the bottom TWA guys get hundreds of AA guys behind 'em.
Not only that, they keep their pay seniority and therefore the TWA guys are being paid better than more senior AA guys.
Don't want to hear any complaints from the TWA side.
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Tower Dog:
If that's the case (and I believe it is) what was up with the announcement that if the two unions couldn't fall in love soon, then AMR would just take it out on the TWA guys? Was it just a little more fuel in the fire?
I know a couple of people at TWA and you seem to be in the know on this.
If that's the case (and I believe it is) what was up with the announcement that if the two unions couldn't fall in love soon, then AMR would just take it out on the TWA guys? Was it just a little more fuel in the fire?
I know a couple of people at TWA and you seem to be in the know on this.
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737:
AMR is almost neutral on this.
It is (was) up to the unions to slag it out.
Yet the TWA pilots chickened out and went to big brother Senator, they wanted not only the shop, but they also wanted to fornicate the AA brothers that let 'em in on a sweet deal they were not able to qualify for in the open market when the healty majors were recruiting.
Don't think the TWABS are welcome in the AA cockpits.
Screw 'em, greedy bastards.
[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: TowerDog ]
AMR is almost neutral on this.
It is (was) up to the unions to slag it out.
Yet the TWA pilots chickened out and went to big brother Senator, they wanted not only the shop, but they also wanted to fornicate the AA brothers that let 'em in on a sweet deal they were not able to qualify for in the open market when the healty majors were recruiting.
Don't think the TWABS are welcome in the AA cockpits.
Screw 'em, greedy bastards.
[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: TowerDog ]
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737type- "Take it out on the TWA guys"? Don't know exactly what you mean by that, but as of 1 Jan they get full longevity credit for pay (about 40% increase) and benefits, great retirement, and A JOB (which NONE of them would have had last spring, from the 30 yr 767 captain to the new hire). TWA was insolvent and destined for wholesale bankruptsy probably in Feburary.
If "taking it out on TWA guys" means furloughing in seniority order once the list is certified, then so be it, but that's the way it's done in this biz. At least those that are furloughed (including about 500 AAL hires) will have great jobs to come back to, hopefully next summer (I've got my fingers-crossed, holding a four-leaf clover, rabbits foot, etc).
Don't kid yourself . . . overall the TWA guys got a GREAT deal out of this - both from AMR and the APA. There are a lot of APAer's that think they gave away the store to TWA.
If "taking it out on TWA guys" means furloughing in seniority order once the list is certified, then so be it, but that's the way it's done in this biz. At least those that are furloughed (including about 500 AAL hires) will have great jobs to come back to, hopefully next summer (I've got my fingers-crossed, holding a four-leaf clover, rabbits foot, etc).
Don't kid yourself . . . overall the TWA guys got a GREAT deal out of this - both from AMR and the APA. There are a lot of APAer's that think they gave away the store to TWA.
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Roadtrip,
By "taking out on the TWA guys" I was referring to receiving the brunt of the furloughs.
I do agree however that overall the TWA folks got saved by the bell. Being out of a job in this economy would've put a lot of people up the proverbial creek.
By "taking out on the TWA guys" I was referring to receiving the brunt of the furloughs.
I do agree however that overall the TWA folks got saved by the bell. Being out of a job in this economy would've put a lot of people up the proverbial creek.
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I truly believe that AMR sorely regrets buying TWA. The only reason they did it was because of UAL's play for US Airways. The size differential was such that AMR could just not sit back and allow UAL to grab that much marketshare. Everyone knows that deal did not go through but American is still stuck with TWA and all the problems that entails, and we are stuck with 2400 very angry( for whatever reason) TWA pilots that live in some obscure parallel universe where they feel they are entitled to date of hire seniority. Those guys realy did fall of the **** wagon and onto a bed of roses. It doesn't bother me that a good amount of them will be furloughed, they are still infinately better off than they would have been. Not that I wish being layed off on anyone, I was out for 2.5 years in the early nineties and it sucks. I do think this one will be fairly short. I hope...
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As others have said the TWA guys are reaping a windfall of benefits and pay raises!! they should kiss the feet of every American Airlines pilot they meet because after Sept 11 there is not a doubt in my mind that TWA would have been bust on the 12th of Sept. Also remember, these TWA guys who are whining about their treatment vis a vis the American buy-out are the same people who have been sinking on the Titanic for over a decade now and didn't have enough sence to leave. I was offered a job at TWA in 94, and nobody was hiring then, but I literally had to turn it down, because their pay scales were an insult, and I wouldn't be able to pay my bills, and I was coming out of the military!!!!!!!!
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My guess is TWA would've gone out of business way before 9/11. With that stupid Caribou deal hanging over their heads, they weren't able to make ends meet even in the fat times.
Sometimes we could all use a little bit of luck.
Sometimes we could all use a little bit of luck.
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Rumour has it that AMR is going to liquidate TWA and we will be stuck with all their people bidding into the system. Just like Air Cal and Reno. Buy the airline liquidate the assets and keep employees that are itching to sue!
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411a- TWA LLC goes to APA greenbook rates on 1 Jan 02 and get full LOS seniority for pay. BTW, TWA LC is bleeding more than AA, and that's not including the integration costs or new pay rates.