no jump seat rides???
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Long live common sense airlines/crews!
The airline? Don't want to say but they don't hold for long when I'm working.
With regards to non UK operators, I know from first and second hand that ATCOs can get flight deck access ad hoc if a passenger on a flight, Lufty, Air France and Ali are all very flexible with regard to this.
As long as the person is demonstrably flight crew or cabin crew or ATCO (or crew's family/close friends), as far as I'm concerned they're no threat to safety, quite the opposite (once briefed as to what phases of the flight to be quiet and let the pilots concentrate!
). Carrying ATCO even produces benefits in terms of a greater understanding of each other's work environment (and perhaps the odd "discount" over Biggin Hill! 
)I feel some countries/airlines have gotten a little paranoid; I mean, what threat can the captain's mother possibly pose? Or a pilot for the same airline riding the jumpseat with a ID90 ticket? Just my fabled two eurocents, but I think it should be at the Captain's discretion (as it is on the three formerly mentioned airlines).
Let's not get carried away with security concerns and maintain a realistic approach, otherwise it will all become as ridiculous as trying to get through UK security... and the captain having his tweezers confiscated...
MD
Controversial, moi?
A Cabin Crew member should never give up their seat for a pax and ride jump seat! Cabin crew are required to be at their "station" for take-off and landing in case it all goes horribly wrong.
As long as the person is demonstrably flight crew or cabin crew or ATCO (or crew's family/close friends), as far as I'm concerned they're no threat to safety, quite the opposite
Tell that to the Fedex crew that got hammered, literally, by the jumpseater, who was also a fellow pilot and company employee. They survived, but if my memory is correct, none of that 3 man crew regained their medicals due to the injuries they received!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: JETNOZZLE
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Plenty of airlines are still allowing people to ride on the f/deck j/seat, on some you don't even need to be airline staff either !!. Plenty of pics online clearly showing this. Some of them are also European Airlines !.."
"I feel some countries/airlines have gotten a little paranoid; I mean, what threat can the captain's mother possibly pose? Or a pilot of the same airline riding the jumpseat with a ID90 ticket? Just my fabled two eurocents, but I think it should be at the Captain's discretion (as it is on the three formerly mentioned airlines).
Let's not get carried away with security concerns and maintain a realistic approach, otherwise it will all become as ridiculous as trying to get through UK security... and the captain having his tweezers confiscated..."
MD
Absolutely true,...this regulation is too rigid...does not hold water, we are being forced to dance the masters tune, stooges...
Tweezers confiscated??...one might argue that new tweezers can easily be purchased, the point is NOT getting new tweezers, the point is WHATS ALL THIS FUSS?!
"I feel some countries/airlines have gotten a little paranoid; I mean, what threat can the captain's mother possibly pose? Or a pilot of the same airline riding the jumpseat with a ID90 ticket? Just my fabled two eurocents, but I think it should be at the Captain's discretion (as it is on the three formerly mentioned airlines).
Let's not get carried away with security concerns and maintain a realistic approach, otherwise it will all become as ridiculous as trying to get through UK security... and the captain having his tweezers confiscated..."
MD
Absolutely true,...this regulation is too rigid...does not hold water, we are being forced to dance the masters tune, stooges...
Tweezers confiscated??...one might argue that new tweezers can easily be purchased, the point is NOT getting new tweezers, the point is WHATS ALL THIS FUSS?!
Yeah, Right!
Tell that to the Fedex crew that got hammered, literally, by the jumpseater, who was also a fellow pilot and company employee. They survived, but if my memory is correct, none of that 3 man crew regained their medicals due to the injuries they received!
Tell that to the Fedex crew that got hammered, literally, by the jumpseater, who was also a fellow pilot and company employee. They survived, but if my memory is correct, none of that 3 man crew regained their medicals due to the injuries they received!
Now that is paranoid.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True but...
Tell that to the Fedex crew that got hammered, literally, by the jumpseater, who was also a fellow pilot and company employee.
This type of thing does happen although it is a fairly rare occurrence, for example the Egypt Air guy who decided to commit suicide with the entire airplane; but if you think about it, a case could be made that the more people there are on the flight deck the higher the chance of an unbalanced person being stopped by everyone else before they do too much damage...
Just my opinion!
MD
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 41,000 feet up
Age: 17
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Ray Cosmic
Yeah, Right!
Tell that to the Fedex crew that got hammered, literally, by the jumpseater, who was also a fellow pilot and company employee. They survived, but if my memory is correct, none of that 3 man crew regained their medicals due to the injuries they received!
Tell that to the Fedex crew that got hammered, literally, by the jumpseater, who was also a fellow pilot and company employee. They survived, but if my memory is correct, none of that 3 man crew regained their medicals due to the injuries they received!
To Quote Main_Dog
There's not much you can do to protect against the odd crazy or grudge-bearer who has made it through all our selection processes and screens.
I am sure the flight deck can be extended back a little bit to include a bathroom and contain a small chiller that has drinks and food.
You can not get more secure than that. Until that happens all the rules about jump seats and the flight deck are all just BULLSH#T.
My two cents (worth less than crap now because of the falling USD)
DeplaneDeplane.
OK. Maybe not a good example.
But my point is this. How willing are you to have someone sitting behind you, in a position where you cannot monitor them, and that person is someone you have never met and know nothing about. This person will be locked in the flightdeck with you.
99.9% of them will be genuinely good people, thankful for the opportunity (Law permitting).
It's the other 0.1% you have to worry about. And you won't have time to find out until it becomes a problem.
But my point is this. How willing are you to have someone sitting behind you, in a position where you cannot monitor them, and that person is someone you have never met and know nothing about. This person will be locked in the flightdeck with you.
99.9% of them will be genuinely good people, thankful for the opportunity (Law permitting).
It's the other 0.1% you have to worry about. And you won't have time to find out until it becomes a problem.
Fathom, you mean like rapists on the street, child abusers around schools, bankrobbers, carjackers etc?
The only solution is to lock yourself away forever on the toilet and hope it doesn't clog.
Nothing in life is certain, and this would qualify as acceptable risk.
Can you imagine: the one time you do not have a jumpseater a fuelpump shorts and you explode mid-air. There you are in your sterile environment..
The only solution is to lock yourself away forever on the toilet and hope it doesn't clog.
Nothing in life is certain, and this would qualify as acceptable risk.
Can you imagine: the one time you do not have a jumpseater a fuelpump shorts and you explode mid-air. There you are in your sterile environment..
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Providing the legal minimum number of cabin crew are seated in the correct positions then it is possible to have a cabin crew member sit on the FD and a passenger to occupy the then released jump seat in the cabin
Have to agree that I wouldn't be comfortable now having a stranger on the jumpseat for T/O and Ldg. However, being able to give friends and family the experience is something I miss. However, I fear that it will never be possible again due to the desk drivers who patently do not live in the real world any longer. Like everything else in Great
Britain, legislation is now dumbed down to the lowest "catch-all" denominator at the expense of all "normal" folk. PC paranoia, H&SE droids and cowering so we don't "offend" anyone is ruining this country - if I could, I'd be out of here ASAP.A4
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 43100"
Age: 58
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe there was an employee travelling full fare, which they took on the jumpseat to allow a pap to take the vacant seat....
Etc. etc.
"Loads" (pardon the pun) of other possibilities.
We don't take paying pax on the flt deck.
The rest is scd. That means if I say so, you go.
Go b*tch about your cereal and kick somebody else.
Etc. etc.
"Loads" (pardon the pun) of other possibilities.
We don't take paying pax on the flt deck.
The rest is scd. That means if I say so, you go.
Go b*tch about your cereal and kick somebody else.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JS
I never take a paying pax on a Jump Seat even if the commercial dep. asks me.
But airlines employees, ATCO and their close relatives, YES.
Naturally some priorities applies and I have the final decision. I want to keep it that way as long as I can.
Security, yes!!! Sure!!! but a bit of common sense too.
Happy landings
GJ
But airlines employees, ATCO and their close relatives, YES.
Naturally some priorities applies and I have the final decision. I want to keep it that way as long as I can.
Security, yes!!! Sure!!! but a bit of common sense too.
Happy landings
GJ
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of UK Transec's arguements is that a jumpseater means that the door will be opened more often and so the flightdeck will be more vulnerable to incursion. If that is so, why aren't they insisting on on a second door/barrier to the flight deck as a mod to existing a/c and as standard to all newbuilds?
KLM will allow access to those known to the flight crew - thank goodness for a bit of common sense.
bm
KLM will allow access to those known to the flight crew - thank goodness for a bit of common sense.
bm
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The world's biggest beach
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah but commen sense seldom applies to UK government departments. Especially where aviation is concerned
The Heathrow fam flight schemes are great but as someone pointed out very inflexible:-
BA and Virgin up to 4 weeks notice.
BMI can sort us one out in a couple of days.
The Heathrow fam flight schemes are great but as someone pointed out very inflexible:-
BA and Virgin up to 4 weeks notice.
BMI can sort us one out in a couple of days.
So as I am flying LHR to ORD on an AA 777 on Saturday and have no direct employment connection with the Aviation industry (apart from working for one of the biggest worldwide airport constructors) and with a JAA PPL and FAA PPL what are my chances of poling up and getting anywhere near the jump seat ?
Presumeably zero or slightly less.
Oh for the old days.
Presumeably zero or slightly less.
Oh for the old days.
Hippopotomonstrosesquipidelian title
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: is everything
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As SLF, I fly with the blind up, blanket over my head, staring at the world as it rolls by. It's an astonishing opportunity to see the planet from a wonderful vantage point. I've done this for decades. I used to get the occasional jumpseat, and I was never too comfortable with it since I knew the crew didn't really want me there, but the optically better glass was just too good a chance to miss. I bet if someone had a forward-facing private cabin with optically-good glass in the nose of a 747 or 380, those seats would sell out months in advance. I'd pay anything for another jumpseat between Asia and Europe, absolutely anything. On 747's I always pick 1A or 1J if I can, simply to get that slightly forward-looking view. Flying's wonderful, if done right.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Zummerset
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sadly Dave Gittins, probably less chance than zero. Like when hell freezes over!
American Airlines have never allowed jumpseaters other than industry guys and gals- the door was always locked.
In the old days in the world of European aviation, it would have been a pleasure to give you the jumpseat if the weather wasn't too crappy but thank the 9/11 crowd for that one. I wish it were different. The world is going mad.
American Airlines have never allowed jumpseaters other than industry guys and gals- the door was always locked.
In the old days in the world of European aviation, it would have been a pleasure to give you the jumpseat if the weather wasn't too crappy but thank the 9/11 crowd for that one. I wish it were different. The world is going mad.
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Providing the legal minimum number of cabin crew are seated in the correct positions then it is possible to have a cabin crew member sit on the FD and a passenger to occupy the then released jump seat in the cabin
Remember it is the legal minimum that is legislated for. Extra crew just enhance that safety - particularly if one is injured.
There is still the other thread doing the rounds of a Captain who decided to 'use his own judgement' about flight deck occupancy. Most UK carriers have a common policy that has been enforced by an over-zealous Government department.
HWB