Pilots protest over 'noxious' air
Hi there
Our experience, in the former national airline of Ireland,when we had 146s, was fumes in the cockpit and cabin, CCMs complaining of nausea, occasional vomiting and severe headaches of CCMs.Culprits included excess APU oil fiiling (easy to do in a 146) leading to fumes from spilt oil in the APU bay getting drawn into the airconditioning ducts and then into the cabin.Sometimes, the main engines were to blame.Deicing fluid entering the airducts also contributed....The trick of running the packs until they were hot, before flight, sometimes worked but sometimes it just made things worse.It was routine to board, start the APU, run the packs at full blast and open all the doors and sliding cockpit windows before the crews boarded, on a suspect aircraft...incidentally, the APUs were always oily.I've never seen a "dry" one.We also had to clean out all the big air ducts thoroughly during checks.
regards
TDD
Our experience, in the former national airline of Ireland,when we had 146s, was fumes in the cockpit and cabin, CCMs complaining of nausea, occasional vomiting and severe headaches of CCMs.Culprits included excess APU oil fiiling (easy to do in a 146) leading to fumes from spilt oil in the APU bay getting drawn into the airconditioning ducts and then into the cabin.Sometimes, the main engines were to blame.Deicing fluid entering the airducts also contributed....The trick of running the packs until they were hot, before flight, sometimes worked but sometimes it just made things worse.It was routine to board, start the APU, run the packs at full blast and open all the doors and sliding cockpit windows before the crews boarded, on a suspect aircraft...incidentally, the APUs were always oily.I've never seen a "dry" one.We also had to clean out all the big air ducts thoroughly during checks.
regards
TDD
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Seems to me that once again with a serious environmental problem, Exxon Mobil are being 'less than forthright' or as they say in the House 'somewhat lacking in verisimilitude' - their testing methods seem to bear no relation whatsoever to humans breathing heated oil (hens drinking it cold, I ask you)...
But lets face it, what the heck is air from inside a piece of hot rotating machinery lubricated with synthetic oils doing being fed to humans anyway - these are oils that I wear nitrile gloves when handling as a matter of course!
Of course seals aren't going to be perfect, even when new, let alone gauranteed perfect for 10 ~ 20,000 hours.
Are we to expect aircrew to initiate an emergency descent to circa 10,000 ft when an air quality 'event' is detected at cruise altitude, to provide breathable quality air to 100's of passengers, with 30%* at immediate risk?
* I also find it interesting that the experts say that 'about' 30% of the population are much more sensitive to TCPs and PANs, due to genetics....
I remember reading that much the same was the case with BSE (and JCD); only 27% of the population had the chromosomal make-up that allowed the disease to rapidly progress.
Seems that nature's diversity has given the human race a rather amazing safety valve... or shall we call it 'an early warning system' ?
Will we heed that warning now or continue in selfish denial requiring Royal Commisions, extreme consumer pressure and in the meantime untold more harm to be done before facing up to an obvious truth ....
cabin air direct from gas turbines is rotten to the core
But lets face it, what the heck is air from inside a piece of hot rotating machinery lubricated with synthetic oils doing being fed to humans anyway - these are oils that I wear nitrile gloves when handling as a matter of course!
Of course seals aren't going to be perfect, even when new, let alone gauranteed perfect for 10 ~ 20,000 hours.
Are we to expect aircrew to initiate an emergency descent to circa 10,000 ft when an air quality 'event' is detected at cruise altitude, to provide breathable quality air to 100's of passengers, with 30%* at immediate risk?
* I also find it interesting that the experts say that 'about' 30% of the population are much more sensitive to TCPs and PANs, due to genetics....
I remember reading that much the same was the case with BSE (and JCD); only 27% of the population had the chromosomal make-up that allowed the disease to rapidly progress.
Seems that nature's diversity has given the human race a rather amazing safety valve... or shall we call it 'an early warning system' ?
Will we heed that warning now or continue in selfish denial requiring Royal Commisions, extreme consumer pressure and in the meantime untold more harm to be done before facing up to an obvious truth ....
cabin air direct from gas turbines is rotten to the core
Last edited by HarryMann; 28th Feb 2008 at 23:46.
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This program tonight on BBC1 South might be of interest to those following this thread. BBC1 South is also available on Sky for those outside the region.
Inside Out
Friday 29 February
7:30pm - 7:57pm
BBC1 South
Joe Crowley is on the trail of the dodgy TV dealers and the poisonous fumes that could damage our health when we hop on a plane. Plus, a pilot who is forced to retire gives us a stark warning.
Friday 29 February
7:30pm - 7:57pm
BBC1 South
Joe Crowley is on the trail of the dodgy TV dealers and the poisonous fumes that could damage our health when we hop on a plane. Plus, a pilot who is forced to retire gives us a stark warning.
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It's good that there have been several newspaper articles recently and items on TV like this one, as the public have a right to know the truth.
Someone likened breathing bleed air to smoking. It's bad for you, and some people can smoke their whole lives with no ill effects, while others can get struck down with lung cancer or other nasty diseases after only a relatively small time. It's the same with bleed air - it's just a question of who is susceptible to it, and how much exposure they need for problems to start manifesting themselves.
Someone likened breathing bleed air to smoking. It's bad for you, and some people can smoke their whole lives with no ill effects, while others can get struck down with lung cancer or other nasty diseases after only a relatively small time. It's the same with bleed air - it's just a question of who is susceptible to it, and how much exposure they need for problems to start manifesting themselves.
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Toxic cockpit fumes that bring danger to the skies
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Perrin
The next time or first time you jocks go into a hangar with A/C on heavy maint ask to see a removed outflow valve before its been cleaned. They are better now that the smoking in the good old days is over but its still not a pretty thing to see.
Keep them up safe guys
Peter
Keep them up safe guys
Peter
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Call for a ‘Public Inquiry’ backed by major opposition parties.
The Global Cabin Air Quality Executive (GCAQE) www.gcaqe.org, has just issued this PR in the UK.
AIR PASSENGERS AND CREW AT RISK FROM ‘CONTAMINATED AIR’
Call for a ‘Public Inquiry’ into the ongoing exposure of passengers and crews to contaminated air on UK transport aircraft backed by major opposition parties.
Thousands of air passengers are put at risk each year from toxic fumes leaking into aircraft cabins, according to a leading organization representing over 500,000 aviation workers globally in 3 continents.
The Global Cabin Air Quality Executive (GCAQE), formed in 2006, is calling for a full public inquiry into the ongoing ‘Contaminated Air’ issue on UK aircraft, in light of substantial evidence that numerous chemicals such as tricresyl phosphate and tributyl phosphate, present in oils and lubricants, leak daily into cabin air supplies. Chemicals known to have immuno- and neuro- toxic effects.
British Ministers say that 1 in 2000 flights could be affected by so-called 'fume events'. GCAQE believes these events are occurring far more frequently, on a daily basis and have done so for over three decades.
An Australian Senator recently revealed a secret 1993 agreement between British Aerospace and two now-defunct Australian airlines relating to ‘obnoxious oil and other (the “cabin environment problem”) fumes affecting the passenger cabins of some or all of the aircraft.’
Commenting, Co-Chairman of the Global Cabin Air Quality Executive and former airline pilot, Captain Tristan Loraine, said:
"International airlines continue to preside over a global scandal. Not only are they supplying the travelling public with unfiltered engine air to breathe, known for decades to sometimes become contaminated with toxic chemicals. They don't tell the public there is a risk of exposure or when they have been exposed. This has to be a breach of their human rights."
"No UK aircraft has any form of detection system fitted to warn when the air is contaminated. Each year thousands of contaminated air events go unreported."
"The Civil Aviation Authority and the Department of Transport are both experts at ‘spin’ but have negligently failed to protect the travelling public. There is overwhelming evidence to show that exposure to contaminated cabin air is causing unacceptable risks to health and flight safety and the precautionary principle should be applied. Solutions to resolve this problem exist and they know it."
"After decades of dissembling only a full public inquiry can get to the facts and protect airline passengers and crew alike."
GCAQE has secured the support of all the main opposition political parties in its call for a public inquiry:
Conservative Party Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, Teresa Villiers MP. For media interviews contact: 0207 2195178 or 07623 945389
Liberal Democrat Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, Norman Baker MP. For media interviews contact: 0207 2192864
Green Party Principal Speaker for England and Wales, Dr. Caroline Lucas MEP. For media interviews contact: 0207 5610282
Tristan Loraine & Judith Murawski
GCAQE Co-Chairs ENDS
Notes to Editors:
1. GCAQE comprises some 20 organisations in 3 continents and represents around 500,000 airline pilots, crew and engineers.
2. All commercial jet aircraft supply breathing air for passengers and crews taken directly from the engines and supplied unfiltered to the passenger cabin. This air, known as ‘bleed air’ is known to become contaminated with hazardous chemicals present in synthetic jet engine oils and hydraulic fluids. These chemicals include the organophosphates 'tricresyl phosphate' and 'tributyl phosphate'.
3. British Transport Minister, Lord Bassam of Brighton, recognised that 1 in 2000 flights report 'fume events' in exchanges with Liberal Democrat Peer, Lord Tyler, on 18th October 2007, HL Hansard column 786 –
http://www.publications.parliament.u...71018-0001.htm
4. Captain Tristan Loraine served as an airline pilot between 1986 and 2006. He sits on international committees where these matters are discussed. He is also the author of the novel ‘Toxic Airlines’ and recently produced the feature length documentary ‘Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines’ now showing in selected UK cinemas.
5. GCAQE researcher, former pilot and PhD student, Susan Michaelis recently published the 844 page ‘Aviation Contaminated Air Reference Manual’ documenting the history of the hazards associated with synthetic jet engine oils and hydraulic fluids leaking into aircraft cabin air supplies. Copies are available from selected public libraries or from www.susanmichaelis.com.
6. The history of the hazards associated with synthetic jet engine oils and hydraulic fluids leaking into aircraft cabin air supplies have been a concern since the 1950's. Appropriate research, called for in 1977 following the documented incapacitation of a crew member, has never been undertaken.
7. An EDM currently exists in relation to this matters: EDM 1017 - CONTAMINATED AIR ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT - 22.02.2008
For more detailed information on the specific reasons for calling for a ‘Public Inquiry’, please refer to the ‘latest news’ section on our website at:
www.gcaqe.org.
AIR PASSENGERS AND CREW AT RISK FROM ‘CONTAMINATED AIR’
Call for a ‘Public Inquiry’ into the ongoing exposure of passengers and crews to contaminated air on UK transport aircraft backed by major opposition parties.
Thousands of air passengers are put at risk each year from toxic fumes leaking into aircraft cabins, according to a leading organization representing over 500,000 aviation workers globally in 3 continents.
The Global Cabin Air Quality Executive (GCAQE), formed in 2006, is calling for a full public inquiry into the ongoing ‘Contaminated Air’ issue on UK aircraft, in light of substantial evidence that numerous chemicals such as tricresyl phosphate and tributyl phosphate, present in oils and lubricants, leak daily into cabin air supplies. Chemicals known to have immuno- and neuro- toxic effects.
British Ministers say that 1 in 2000 flights could be affected by so-called 'fume events'. GCAQE believes these events are occurring far more frequently, on a daily basis and have done so for over three decades.
An Australian Senator recently revealed a secret 1993 agreement between British Aerospace and two now-defunct Australian airlines relating to ‘obnoxious oil and other (the “cabin environment problem”) fumes affecting the passenger cabins of some or all of the aircraft.’
Commenting, Co-Chairman of the Global Cabin Air Quality Executive and former airline pilot, Captain Tristan Loraine, said:
"International airlines continue to preside over a global scandal. Not only are they supplying the travelling public with unfiltered engine air to breathe, known for decades to sometimes become contaminated with toxic chemicals. They don't tell the public there is a risk of exposure or when they have been exposed. This has to be a breach of their human rights."
"No UK aircraft has any form of detection system fitted to warn when the air is contaminated. Each year thousands of contaminated air events go unreported."
"The Civil Aviation Authority and the Department of Transport are both experts at ‘spin’ but have negligently failed to protect the travelling public. There is overwhelming evidence to show that exposure to contaminated cabin air is causing unacceptable risks to health and flight safety and the precautionary principle should be applied. Solutions to resolve this problem exist and they know it."
"After decades of dissembling only a full public inquiry can get to the facts and protect airline passengers and crew alike."
GCAQE has secured the support of all the main opposition political parties in its call for a public inquiry:
Conservative Party Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, Teresa Villiers MP. For media interviews contact: 0207 2195178 or 07623 945389
Liberal Democrat Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, Norman Baker MP. For media interviews contact: 0207 2192864
Green Party Principal Speaker for England and Wales, Dr. Caroline Lucas MEP. For media interviews contact: 0207 5610282
Tristan Loraine & Judith Murawski
GCAQE Co-Chairs ENDS
Notes to Editors:
1. GCAQE comprises some 20 organisations in 3 continents and represents around 500,000 airline pilots, crew and engineers.
2. All commercial jet aircraft supply breathing air for passengers and crews taken directly from the engines and supplied unfiltered to the passenger cabin. This air, known as ‘bleed air’ is known to become contaminated with hazardous chemicals present in synthetic jet engine oils and hydraulic fluids. These chemicals include the organophosphates 'tricresyl phosphate' and 'tributyl phosphate'.
3. British Transport Minister, Lord Bassam of Brighton, recognised that 1 in 2000 flights report 'fume events' in exchanges with Liberal Democrat Peer, Lord Tyler, on 18th October 2007, HL Hansard column 786 –
http://www.publications.parliament.u...71018-0001.htm
4. Captain Tristan Loraine served as an airline pilot between 1986 and 2006. He sits on international committees where these matters are discussed. He is also the author of the novel ‘Toxic Airlines’ and recently produced the feature length documentary ‘Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines’ now showing in selected UK cinemas.
5. GCAQE researcher, former pilot and PhD student, Susan Michaelis recently published the 844 page ‘Aviation Contaminated Air Reference Manual’ documenting the history of the hazards associated with synthetic jet engine oils and hydraulic fluids leaking into aircraft cabin air supplies. Copies are available from selected public libraries or from www.susanmichaelis.com.
6. The history of the hazards associated with synthetic jet engine oils and hydraulic fluids leaking into aircraft cabin air supplies have been a concern since the 1950's. Appropriate research, called for in 1977 following the documented incapacitation of a crew member, has never been undertaken.
7. An EDM currently exists in relation to this matters: EDM 1017 - CONTAMINATED AIR ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT - 22.02.2008
For more detailed information on the specific reasons for calling for a ‘Public Inquiry’, please refer to the ‘latest news’ section on our website at:
www.gcaqe.org.
Are aircraft unique?
It seems outrageous that detection systems have not been mandated on all public transport aircraft, assuming that suitable technology is available.
However, how can any air conditioning system be totally immune from the probability of finite quantities of lubricant contaminating the supplied air? This cannot be a problem unique to airborne systems supplied by jet-engine compressor bleed-air. The types of lubricants, of course, are another matter, but I would wager that offices and hotels throughout the world must also be susceptible to comparable pollution mechanisms - not to mention trains and buses.
However, how can any air conditioning system be totally immune from the probability of finite quantities of lubricant contaminating the supplied air? This cannot be a problem unique to airborne systems supplied by jet-engine compressor bleed-air. The types of lubricants, of course, are another matter, but I would wager that offices and hotels throughout the world must also be susceptible to comparable pollution mechanisms - not to mention trains and buses.
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Bad Air!
Does anyone have any info on the source, or indeed validity of this news brief from Teletext?
Aeroplane air quality slammed
Thousands of air passengers are being put at risk by toxic engine fumes leaking into aeroplane cabins, says the Global Cabin Air Quality Executive.
It is calling for a public inquiry into the issue of "contaminated air" on UK aircraft.
The group says there is substantial evidence that numerous chemicals known to damage the immune and nervous system leak into cabin air supplies every day.
Who are the "Global Cabin Air Quality Executive? Who sits on such an executive?
And why are UK aircraft seemingly singled out for this complaint?
I must say its the first i've heard on this subject!
PG.
Aeroplane air quality slammed
Thousands of air passengers are being put at risk by toxic engine fumes leaking into aeroplane cabins, says the Global Cabin Air Quality Executive.
It is calling for a public inquiry into the issue of "contaminated air" on UK aircraft.
The group says there is substantial evidence that numerous chemicals known to damage the immune and nervous system leak into cabin air supplies every day.
Who are the "Global Cabin Air Quality Executive? Who sits on such an executive?
And why are UK aircraft seemingly singled out for this complaint?
I must say its the first i've heard on this subject!
PG.
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In bed with the enemy?
Professional (ex?) pilots campaigning on fumes is one thing but including:
Green Party Principal Speaker for England and Wales, Dr. Caroline Lucas MEP. For media interviews contact: 0207 5610282
in your press release shows an appalling lack of judgement. She is the very worst example of an aviation-hating alfalfa-knitting eco-loon and would have us closed down as quickly as you can say 'cabin air quality'. Is it possible that the GCAQE can't see the wood for the trees and will sign up even people who despise us just to garner support for their cause? And since when were the Greens a 'main opposition party' anyway?!
Green Party Principal Speaker for England and Wales, Dr. Caroline Lucas MEP. For media interviews contact: 0207 5610282
in your press release shows an appalling lack of judgement. She is the very worst example of an aviation-hating alfalfa-knitting eco-loon and would have us closed down as quickly as you can say 'cabin air quality'. Is it possible that the GCAQE can't see the wood for the trees and will sign up even people who despise us just to garner support for their cause? And since when were the Greens a 'main opposition party' anyway?!
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Drink up
Agree, this type of concern needs to be kept as much as possible, within the industry. Just imagine in a DC8F with a ramp OAT of 45c for 4hrs with the no external aircon unit with acft systems running. Leave acft sit under wing.
FYI LGW based or bear living folks, 'Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines' is playing on the 31st at the Capitol in Horsham @ 1430 & eve prog, one day only.
FYI LGW based or bear living folks, 'Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines' is playing on the 31st at the Capitol in Horsham @ 1430 & eve prog, one day only.
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FYI LGW based or bear living folks, 'Welcome Aboard Toxic Airlines' is playing on the 31st at the Capitol in Horsham @ 1430 & eve prog, one day only.
The main guy in the film plus two others were there to discuss and answer questions.
Well done the Aussies for pushing for answers.
Watch out for coverage on BBC.
I now have a DVD copy of the film.
Further showing London Independant Film Festival 14-19 April
and in EDI at Cameo Picturehouse ( 0131 228 2800 on 21 April
http://www.welcomeaboardtoxicairlines.com/
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A question for the experts: Are we talking here about the cabin fumes one frequently experiences on engine start up and which clears within a few minutes?
(I apologise if this has been addressed elsewhere but I have not read all the contributions to this thread!)
(I apologise if this has been addressed elsewhere but I have not read all the contributions to this thread!)