DHL aircraft under attack
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DHL flying in Bahrain
In response to bostonpilgrim.. Yes you are very correct, we all did decide to come out here to fly into war zones and knowing the possible danger involved in the destinations we go to. However the problem we are having is maybe not so much of the military activity but of the management problems we are having with them lying to us. Telling us a certain aircraft has been fixed, when in fact the only thing which has been fixed is the paperwork. Or telling you how much money you are going to make, when in fact it is much less.. And yes, again you are correct a person should not have to stand around for that and leave.. and that is exactly what people are doing.. Rumor has it that either two things are going to occur once DHL headquarters comes down in the next few days.. Either they will give the pilots and mechanics a better work enviroment or shut the operation down.. By that I mean SNAS, not DHL itself but the sponsor who flies the 727's and go with another company sponsor, or maybe bring the brussel aircraft back.. I think the next few days are going to be very interesting..
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bahrain
Age: 64
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In response to bostonpilgrim:
From day one, the pilots of DHL Bahrain have been told, that the flights to Iraq will go only if the airports perimeters are fully secured with threats fully suppressed.
DHL Germany, suppposedly would not allow a flight to a destination, if there was any chance of danger. DHL Headquarters does not accept flights to war zones, and therefore danger pay will never be applicable.
The pilots were guaranteed, that a reliable professional Security Group would monitor continuously the situations at every destination, and turn back the airplanes to Bahrain if any threats were anticipated.
SOPs were supposed to be followed at all times. Minimum safe heights were to be complied with at all times, except during approach and climb out within the secured perimeter of an airport.
DHL Bahrain threatened from day one to fire anybody not willing to fly to Iraq, since there is "no danger" involved and no "non standard" maneuvers or procedures are to be required.
Of course, in real world, things are quite different! DHL did not hire mercenaries and cannot expect its pilots to operate as mercenaries.
An employer cannot break the rules, lie and just tell its employees to leave in case they are not happy.
DHL is probably making a very good profit with this contract.At the same time,it is acting in a dishonest way with its crewmembers.
From day one, the pilots of DHL Bahrain have been told, that the flights to Iraq will go only if the airports perimeters are fully secured with threats fully suppressed.
DHL Germany, suppposedly would not allow a flight to a destination, if there was any chance of danger. DHL Headquarters does not accept flights to war zones, and therefore danger pay will never be applicable.
The pilots were guaranteed, that a reliable professional Security Group would monitor continuously the situations at every destination, and turn back the airplanes to Bahrain if any threats were anticipated.
SOPs were supposed to be followed at all times. Minimum safe heights were to be complied with at all times, except during approach and climb out within the secured perimeter of an airport.
DHL Bahrain threatened from day one to fire anybody not willing to fly to Iraq, since there is "no danger" involved and no "non standard" maneuvers or procedures are to be required.
Of course, in real world, things are quite different! DHL did not hire mercenaries and cannot expect its pilots to operate as mercenaries.
An employer cannot break the rules, lie and just tell its employees to leave in case they are not happy.
DHL is probably making a very good profit with this contract.At the same time,it is acting in a dishonest way with its crewmembers.
Last edited by Don't Have Laws; 2nd Nov 2007 at 16:00.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LPPT
Age: 58
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DHL Bahrain threatened from day one to fire anybody not willing to fly to Iraq, since there is "no danger" involved and no "non standard" maneuvers or procedures are to be required.
GD&L
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chili
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the issue is not the money.
the problem is all the lies in term of maintenance status and security in Iraq. apparently the big boss told a mechanic to lie to the crew about the cracked cargo door and he got pissed off and resign.
a DHL employee from Afghanistan said a control demolition was performed in Ballad (Iraq) and the the crew should not worry . meanwhile 17 persons died in the perimeter of the airport in a truck bomb.
we had a meeting with him a couple of mouths ago and he said NO NO NO NO to everything we asked. and trust me it wasn't much. and after that he told us that we are going to start flying into Iraq at night ???? he must be f
g joking,or dreaming or he has been dealing with south American slaves for too long to realize that things have changed.
He was even heard saying that he wished all pilots from DHL would resign so he could replace them with more south americanos. well good luck to all of you, and god save us all .
anyway he better wake up soon (and leave) because he is in for a big surprise
the problem is all the lies in term of maintenance status and security in Iraq. apparently the big boss told a mechanic to lie to the crew about the cracked cargo door and he got pissed off and resign.
a DHL employee from Afghanistan said a control demolition was performed in Ballad (Iraq) and the the crew should not worry . meanwhile 17 persons died in the perimeter of the airport in a truck bomb.
we had a meeting with him a couple of mouths ago and he said NO NO NO NO to everything we asked. and trust me it wasn't much. and after that he told us that we are going to start flying into Iraq at night ???? he must be f
g joking,or dreaming or he has been dealing with south American slaves for too long to realize that things have changed.He was even heard saying that he wished all pilots from DHL would resign so he could replace them with more south americanos. well good luck to all of you, and god save us all .
anyway he better wake up soon (and leave) because he is in for a big surprise
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DHL pilots sticking together
The main thing we have to do is stick together.. Of course everyone knows this is not going to happen.. The funny thing is some of my co-workers I approached (not from South America) but from my own country said they would continue to fly to Mosul before SNAS cancelled the trips all together. Their response was "well I'm here to make money, and hey you can get killed crossing the street by a saudi driver".. The first thing that came to my mind was what a complete fing idiot.. That's when I responded with.. "well pal you just keep that in mind when your wife and children lose a father". What would be the ultimate (in a perfect world) is to tell management all the planes will sit on the ground until every single one of them is completely checked out.. Of course you will see 3 suck ass crew members walking out on the tarmac to take your flight for you, because, "hey, there here to make money".
ing idiot.. That's when I responded with.. "well pal you just keep that in mind when your wife and children lose a father". What would be the ultimate (in a perfect world) is to tell management all the planes will sit on the ground until every single one of them is completely checked out.. Of course you will see 3 suck ass crew members walking out on the tarmac to take your flight for you, because, "hey, there here to make money".
Reading somewhere about a C-130 crews' prebriefed wild, "sporty" approach into Baghdad was quite interesting.
Do the terrorists care whether the jet has camouflage or a nice paint job? They only want burned, bloody bodies which make the evening news (and their websites), whether filmed by a French cameraman-for the previous A-300 attack-or not.
The next hit from a Stinger will be quite deadly. I've seen chilling films of the Mujah- firing Stingers which blew off the entire front area of Russian HIND helicopters (the c0ckpit along with the area behind it...
) in Afghanistan in the 80s. Even Soviet Frogfoot SU-25s were destroyed in the air-and their engines probably have much less of a heat signature than a 737 or A-300.
Do the terrorists care whether the jet has camouflage or a nice paint job? They only want burned, bloody bodies which make the evening news (and their websites), whether filmed by a French cameraman-for the previous A-300 attack-or not.
The next hit from a Stinger will be quite deadly. I've seen chilling films of the Mujah- firing Stingers which blew off the entire front area of Russian HIND helicopters (the c0ckpit along with the area behind it...
) in Afghanistan in the 80s. Even Soviet Frogfoot SU-25s were destroyed in the air-and their engines probably have much less of a heat signature than a 737 or A-300.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bahrain
Age: 64
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DHL pilots don't need to watch movies.
Two days ago, a crew on the ramp obversed a C130 about 2 miles final in Baghdad making very agressive evasive turns close to the ground, while throwing flares.
The C130 reportedly was locked on.
Of course, DHL is not aware of any threat that could affect the safety of the flights to Baghdad.
I hope the Germans are really serious and come here for proper remedial actions.Otherwise, patience will run out and some very serious actions and notifications will be made within the region and overseas.
PS:The inspector in Jeddah must start looking now at the maintenance records and the pile of occurence reports.
Two days ago, a crew on the ramp obversed a C130 about 2 miles final in Baghdad making very agressive evasive turns close to the ground, while throwing flares.
The C130 reportedly was locked on.
Of course, DHL is not aware of any threat that could affect the safety of the flights to Baghdad.
I hope the Germans are really serious and come here for proper remedial actions.Otherwise, patience will run out and some very serious actions and notifications will be made within the region and overseas.
PS:The inspector in Jeddah must start looking now at the maintenance records and the pile of occurence reports.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Age: 85
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have recently read that Iraquis are being killed while recovering scrap metal from unguarded arms dumps. In any event the country is awash with arms and ammunition abandoned by the defeated Iraqui army.
Thinking back to my own army service I cannot believe that a hostile element could not obtain the modern equivalent of the British three inch mortar and get off a significant number of rounds before being obliged to flee. Granted, the mortar is a spray and pray weapon and in military terms unlikely to inflict significant damage, but again in military terms, the safety standards that apply in aviation are fantastically high.
Baghdad airport is in a war zone and civilians flying into it should be paid accordingly. Even if their managers can see no danger from behind their desks in their home countries.
Thinking back to my own army service I cannot believe that a hostile element could not obtain the modern equivalent of the British three inch mortar and get off a significant number of rounds before being obliged to flee. Granted, the mortar is a spray and pray weapon and in military terms unlikely to inflict significant damage, but again in military terms, the safety standards that apply in aviation are fantastically high.
Baghdad airport is in a war zone and civilians flying into it should be paid accordingly. Even if their managers can see no danger from behind their desks in their home countries.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Director of Maintanence at it again
Good 'ol Al is up to it again.. HZ-SNF had a split flap problem the other day, where the flap gauge was sticking.. With this paticular gauge sends a signal to the flaps causing a split problem.. The crew wanting to get back to Bahrain rather than sleep in Bagdad pulled a circuit breaker only as a fix to get back home.. When reported to maintenance, the on duty acting supervisor downed the plane simply because DHL carries no spare parts, and has to order them from the states.. Mr. Al approached the supervisor and said if the crew pulled the breaker the first time, why can't they continue to do it until the parts arrive.. This is not a rumor, the supervisor told us this himself.. Of course the supervisor told him in so many words to go pound sand.. I guess idiots never learn. By the way 9 mechanics have already handed in their resignations along with 8 pilots.. Of course DHL is not as big as Gulf air, but to scale that amount is really going to hurt.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dark side of the Moon
Age: 64
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question of liability?
This fiasco is turning into nothing short of a soap opera. Is this the typical modus operandi of DHL and DP?
The events, which have transpired over the last few weeks, are more than sufficient reason for any reasonable person to seriously question just what exactly is happening at DHL Bahrain.
I, for one, cannot help but wonder whether DHL Int and DP, are part of what amounts to nothing less than a commercially motivated, sinister plot to make as much money (the contract is reportedly worth several hundred million euros) and grab as much profit while the going is good, knowing full well that it is only a matter of time before one of their aircraft (insured) and aircrews (expendable) are blown to oblivion. Whereupon the ever caring managers will sanctimoniously suspend the operation in the “interest of crew safety”. All the while, telephone lines will be red-hot while they frantically procure the services of some or other desperate third-world operator to continue harvesting the cash. Not that there is anything wrong with making profit, but, when it is done at the expense of safety and decency, I tend to have a problem with the concept.
My question is this: Is DP aware of, and thereby guilty of, in my opinion, the criminally negligent actions of their “managers” (MMc and AB) in Bahrain? Or are they (DP) blissfully unaware of the magnitude of the impending disaster?
A part of me likes to hope that DP are acting on the information and intelligence provided, through MMc and AB, by the so-called “security manager” (KS) who, in my opinion, is either being instructed, once again by MMc and AB, to sugar-coat the security reports coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan or he is just too plain incompetent and stupid to do a proper job of reporting and analyzing the risks involved. A negative security picture would surely force DHL Bahrain to pay hazard pay on a rather large scale to the aircrew. This in turn would impact negatively on the bloated bonus payouts to MMc and AB. Based on the shameful behavior of AB recently where he allegedly instructed mechanics to lie to the aircrew regarding the safety status of a badly cracked main cargo door on a B727 to keep the aircraft on line (making money), I tend to believe that the security reports are deliberately suppressed and/or omitted from the daily briefings which are supposed to be supplied to the operating crews.
The shocking maintenance standards under the leadership of AB, together with the irregularities in reporting and repairing defects and snags have caused a situation where, not only do the majority of aircrew have absolutely no respect for the current management, but also MMc and AB have zero credibility. I believe that this can only be remedied through a FULL audit by DP, Saudi GCA and an independent auditor, as the situation as it now stands is one where nobody knows for sure, how many other serious issues regarding the safe operation of the aircraft in the fleet have been covered up, misrepresented or plainly lied about.
The other theory amongst the crew is that maintenance is unnecessary on what, for all intents and purposes, seems to be viewed by DHL as little more than a manned, revenue generating, target drone.
With all the information available to them, and all the events and incidents, which have recently occurred, I hope that WHEN an aircraft is destroyed, with it’s crew, that DP, DHL Int and the responsible persons in Bahrain are investigated for criminal negligence and punished accordingly. I’m very sure that the press in Europe is going to be asking a lot of questions as to why the tragedy occurred, how it happened and, most importantly: Who is responsible? I can already hear the attorneys rubbing their hands in glee and anticipation. Should make for interesting reading.
The bottom line is, after all, that nobody can force a crewmember to operate in an unsafe environment and that each individual is entitled to chose for themselves whether or not to operate certain flights. I respect the fact that some crew are prepared to continue as normal, but the least that those individuals should be asking of themselves is this: “Am I being compensated sufficiently for the risks which I am taking?” Especially in light of the fact that the company for which those risks are taken, regards you and your profession with such contempt.
Fly Safe Guys.
BB
The events, which have transpired over the last few weeks, are more than sufficient reason for any reasonable person to seriously question just what exactly is happening at DHL Bahrain.
I, for one, cannot help but wonder whether DHL Int and DP, are part of what amounts to nothing less than a commercially motivated, sinister plot to make as much money (the contract is reportedly worth several hundred million euros) and grab as much profit while the going is good, knowing full well that it is only a matter of time before one of their aircraft (insured) and aircrews (expendable) are blown to oblivion. Whereupon the ever caring managers will sanctimoniously suspend the operation in the “interest of crew safety”. All the while, telephone lines will be red-hot while they frantically procure the services of some or other desperate third-world operator to continue harvesting the cash. Not that there is anything wrong with making profit, but, when it is done at the expense of safety and decency, I tend to have a problem with the concept.
My question is this: Is DP aware of, and thereby guilty of, in my opinion, the criminally negligent actions of their “managers” (MMc and AB) in Bahrain? Or are they (DP) blissfully unaware of the magnitude of the impending disaster?
A part of me likes to hope that DP are acting on the information and intelligence provided, through MMc and AB, by the so-called “security manager” (KS) who, in my opinion, is either being instructed, once again by MMc and AB, to sugar-coat the security reports coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan or he is just too plain incompetent and stupid to do a proper job of reporting and analyzing the risks involved. A negative security picture would surely force DHL Bahrain to pay hazard pay on a rather large scale to the aircrew. This in turn would impact negatively on the bloated bonus payouts to MMc and AB. Based on the shameful behavior of AB recently where he allegedly instructed mechanics to lie to the aircrew regarding the safety status of a badly cracked main cargo door on a B727 to keep the aircraft on line (making money), I tend to believe that the security reports are deliberately suppressed and/or omitted from the daily briefings which are supposed to be supplied to the operating crews.
The shocking maintenance standards under the leadership of AB, together with the irregularities in reporting and repairing defects and snags have caused a situation where, not only do the majority of aircrew have absolutely no respect for the current management, but also MMc and AB have zero credibility. I believe that this can only be remedied through a FULL audit by DP, Saudi GCA and an independent auditor, as the situation as it now stands is one where nobody knows for sure, how many other serious issues regarding the safe operation of the aircraft in the fleet have been covered up, misrepresented or plainly lied about.
The other theory amongst the crew is that maintenance is unnecessary on what, for all intents and purposes, seems to be viewed by DHL as little more than a manned, revenue generating, target drone.
With all the information available to them, and all the events and incidents, which have recently occurred, I hope that WHEN an aircraft is destroyed, with it’s crew, that DP, DHL Int and the responsible persons in Bahrain are investigated for criminal negligence and punished accordingly. I’m very sure that the press in Europe is going to be asking a lot of questions as to why the tragedy occurred, how it happened and, most importantly: Who is responsible? I can already hear the attorneys rubbing their hands in glee and anticipation. Should make for interesting reading.
The bottom line is, after all, that nobody can force a crewmember to operate in an unsafe environment and that each individual is entitled to chose for themselves whether or not to operate certain flights. I respect the fact that some crew are prepared to continue as normal, but the least that those individuals should be asking of themselves is this: “Am I being compensated sufficiently for the risks which I am taking?” Especially in light of the fact that the company for which those risks are taken, regards you and your profession with such contempt.
Fly Safe Guys.
BB
Join Date: May 2006
Location: spain
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi BB,
If you want to to get your worries transmitted to one of the right persons, here is a mail contact: Andrea Kocsis, Deputy Chair of the supervisary board of DP (Deutsche Post), representing one of the leading unions in Germany at the board. [email protected]
Cheers
If you want to to get your worries transmitted to one of the right persons, here is a mail contact: Andrea Kocsis, Deputy Chair of the supervisary board of DP (Deutsche Post), representing one of the leading unions in Germany at the board. [email protected]
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Kingdom
Age: 67
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To hover is Divine
Hi Mumsilein49
Could you confirm the email address given: [email protected].
I tried that but it failed.
Could you confirm the email address given: [email protected].
I tried that but it failed.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alan is hiding out
It's so funny, Alan can't be found anywhere.. He knows he's in deep
st. Come to think of it, there hasn't been anymore pilot meetings with management. What can they possibily tell us. It's sad, out director of operations is a wonderful man who only wants the best for our pilots, and all this poor guy does is bang his head against the wall with these idiots. I wonder how long it will be before he decides to throw in the towel and leave. Then we're doomed. But don't worry we can still rely on our Chief pilot 
.
s
t. Come to think of it, there hasn't been anymore pilot meetings with management. What can they possibily tell us. It's sad, out director of operations is a wonderful man who only wants the best for our pilots, and all this poor guy does is bang his head against the wall with these idiots. I wonder how long it will be before he decides to throw in the towel and leave. Then we're doomed. But don't worry we can still rely on our Chief pilot .
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Kingdom
Age: 67
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Hover is Divine
Morning Angrie granny and Factsman and all the special boys at Dhl. Things behind the scenes are going extremely well and you guys take it easy and fly safe. The Supervisory Board of DP DO NOT TAKE THIS LIGHTLY, and they do not care a 
about MMc and AB(hide&seek) and all their appointed co-workers's stolen bonuses when their investments are at stake. Soon the abovementioned clowns will realise, what all aircrew already knows, how small the island really is.
Support the DFO, he needs you big time and stand like one man for once, you will never look back
about MMc and AB(hide&seek) and all their appointed co-workers's stolen bonuses when their investments are at stake. Soon the abovementioned clowns will realise, what all aircrew already knows, how small the island really is.Support the DFO, he needs you big time and stand like one man for once, you will never look back