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German Eurocontrol Charges 16% Up!!

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German Eurocontrol Charges 16% Up!!

Old 2nd Nov 2001, 20:35
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Unhappy German Eurocontrol Charges 16% Up!!

German Eurocontrol Charges set to rise by 16% in 2002 to compensate for falling traffic levels, which will no doubt help the downward spiral of failures and more job losses! Why not get Eurocontrol, Airports and associated suppliers to aviation to hold or reduce costs and to share in the pain. The only way out of the current situation is if the industry helps itself.
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Old 2nd Nov 2001, 21:12
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Agreed 110%!!

There seems to be some remarkably stupid people in this industry that haven't cottoned on that business booms when you cut - rather than increase - costs.
 
Old 2nd Nov 2001, 21:35
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Heaven forbid chaps.

Are you suggesting that ATCOs be paid based on productivity?

Unlike other sectors which are able to downscale, whether there is one aircraft or one hundred, the humble ATCO will still be there.

I'll share the pain of less dosh, but I expect my hours to be reduced commensurately.

Will you accept the resulting flow control ?

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Old 2nd Nov 2001, 22:03
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... which is why these essential services should remain government owned rather than privately controlled with the corresponding desire to cut costs and maximise profits!

Governments make serious money out of the APD and other taxes levied on airlines - let's see some of that being ploughed back into the industry.
 
Old 2nd Nov 2001, 22:51
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That's all well and good 160to4DME but who will turn the lights out at Eurocontrol when the last aircraft lands and is parked in the graveyard of aviation. Who will pay your salary then! If we are all to survive we need to help each other. The airlines are taking pay cuts and are asking staff to improve productivity, we need to all pull together and reduce costs to the public to get them flying again. With lower costs will come improved yields and confidence. If we carry on raising Eurocontrol costs because traffic is reducing what will Eurocontrol do then, increase costs again by 50% ???!!!
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Old 2nd Nov 2001, 22:58
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Let's just get one very important point straight: it is the DFS, and not Eurocontrol, who are putting the route charges up in Germany. The price of privatization perhaps? In simple terms, please note that Eurocontrol acts as a collecting agency on behalf of the DFS (and most other European states). Increases to the route charges of individual countries are (conveniently) camouflaged under the general banner of "Eurocontrol Route Charges" and as such unfortunately does the Agency a great discredit since its own operations are in fact cost effective.
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Old 3rd Nov 2001, 01:17
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Whoever is responsible for collecting the charges surely is immaterial. The point is that costs need to be held or reduced, not a massive 16% increase! If the airlines increased their fares by 16% at the moment they would go out of business. Eurocontrol are a monopoly, we can't choose to go elsewhere and they are acting irresponsibly in hiking their charges at this difficult time. I agree 100% that all areas of aviation should consider the future of the industry and share a small part of the "pain" before acting selfishly! We should all start to try to reduce costs in an industry where our costs are already too high! The suppliers need the airlines to be in business to make profits - time to help when we are in need. If this goes on it will put aviation back 30 years! I can see a pack of cards scenario that will effect everyone connected. Come on everyone understand the problem and act.
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Old 3rd Nov 2001, 01:30
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Another area that would be a good place to cut costs is on airport and handling charges.

To give you an example, here's the proportionate costs incurred in running a regional turboprop:

Aircraft (lease rental, maintenance & insurance) = 32.91%

Crew (including allowances and per diems) = 6.38%

Fuel = 8.79%

Navigation = 5.58%

Airport & Handling Charges = 30.88%

Catering = 3.69%

Cost of Sales (includes commission, GDS fees, call centre costs and credit/charge card transation costs) = 11.77%

Now, if it hadn't been for the fact that insurance rates have skyrocketed, the airport and handling costs would be the greatest expense! It's ridiculous!
 
Old 3rd Nov 2001, 02:52
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Guvnor, I agree. But will the BAA reduce costs to airlines, I think not. I understand that the BAA will be able to charge what they like soon, as they won't be restricted by the Governments RPI minus a percentage. The handling agents won't want to get involved with reduced charges either, citing shareholder value and profits. The bigger problem though are the financial markets, mention the word Aviation or Airline and they run a mile! In normal circumstances when an airline flies into a bit of financial turbulence they can raise some finance to see themselves through it, but not since 11 Sept. You can see the effect all over the world, major carriers which are all near the brink or already over the edge. They are quite happy giving out the umbrellas when the sun is shining but they immediately want them back when it rains. The industry can now only rely on itself to try to sort out the problem, unless of course you are outside Europe and can rely on a state hand out. Come on you suppliers, help the airlines and safeguard your own futures!
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Old 3rd Nov 2001, 14:05
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Glide Path - absolutely. If they suppliers don't get their heads out of the sand and realise that by maintaining high prices they soon won't have any clients left to rip off!

Aircraft lease rates have come down substantially over the last few months - and more so since September - but even there you'd be amazed at how many lessors would rather pay to park their aircraft than lease them out at 50% of what they were getting previously.

Absolute insanity!
 
Old 3rd Nov 2001, 14:53
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...and with perfect timing I spot this in today's Scotsman:

BAA to increase airport charges
Victoria Thompson

AIRPORTS operator BAA has been given the green light to increase charges to airlines at Heathrow and Gatwick airports in a move that could lead to increased costs for flights from Scotland.

The Civil Aviation Authority has proposed that money from shops and other commercial activities should no longer be used to keep landing charges down.

The measure would be part of a shake-up in the way the air industry regulator polices airport finance.

Airports likely to be affected include Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted and Manchester, but customers using the airports could end up paying more because of the change of policy.

The CAA has said that it does not expect the extra charges to be passed onto passengers, but responding to the news a spokesperson for British Airways said: "In a competitive aviation market, customers will bear the brunt of any substantial increase in charges."

Any extra costs will be bad news for airlines which are already struggling to overcome the year-long global economic slowdown and the effects of the 11 September attacks on New York and Washington DC.

The average passenger load factor on international flights was just 69 per cent in September, meaning that almost one-third of seats were empty.

It is understood that parking charges for aircraft are also expected to increase as a result of the changes.

The CAA is responsible for setting a price cap on landing charges, in consultation with the Competition Commission.

Airports can then determine their own charges, but are prohibited from going above the price cap.

Up until now, the CAA has taken commercial revenues from airport shops into account when setting the price cap.

The new proposal means revenues will no longer be considered by the CAA, although airports will be free to take them into account when imposing their own charges.

If the CAA proposals are accepted by the Competition Commission, landing charges could rise in April 2003. But British Airways said it did not believe the move to discount revenues from airport shops was "justified or necessary".

BAA said: "The CAA’s proposals address directly the need for airport charges to be set at a level which encourages investment in airports to meet the nation's needs. The proposals are wide ranging."

The Competition Commission will take six months to consider the proposals, starting in February 2002.

The CAA is then expected to set new price caps in October or November, taking into account recommendations from the Commission.

If the proposals are passed, then charges are expected to increase.
 
Old 3rd Nov 2001, 15:59
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Glide Path, aside from your inability to read my post, you obviously haven't the faintest understanding on how Eurocontrol works. Your comments about the Organization are incorrect.
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Old 3rd Nov 2001, 16:02
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Call me an old cynic (which I am).

When times are good, the ATC agencies generally handed back millions to the operators each year. This money then no doubt ended up in the shareholders/management/staff pockets as bonuses. I didn't see them queueing up to pass any of it back on to the staff in ATC who had made the efficencies or cost savings.

Now when times are hard, which is unquestionable, the same operators expect some more benefits or hand outs to be provided by ATC staff or agencies. Having your cake and eating it springs to mind.

My sympathy lies of course with the troops on the ground in all areas of our industry. It is they (we) that suffer the effects. But for the management who espouse 'market forces' and 'dog eat dog' in the good times and then come out crying foul and looking for handouts when things all go wrong, if you live by the sword, then you'll die by the sword. As business men they should be only too aware of the ways of the world. Sadly, many are now finding out the hard way and their companies and staff are the ones who are left to pick up the pieces
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Old 3rd Nov 2001, 23:05
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Good evening!

A big problem for the DFS is that they are not allowed to keep the profits they make in good years. The company was privatised in 1993 and made good profits every year. Since they were not allowed to keep the money and build up a reserve they invested most of it.

The rest, still more than anyone of us will ever earn, was given back to the airlines. At the beginning of 2001 DFS gave 55 million EUROs back to the airlines (and I think not only LH

Since 1993 the costs were decreased every year, but now DFS hasn´t got any reserves and they are desperately looking for money! So the first ones to pay are the airlines.

And now they are already discussing not to give us Christmas pay and the 3% pay increase we expected in November.

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